Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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I think you underestimate the human will, there will be people who will never surrender to God's holiness, don't want holiness, hate it and will prefer to live in their sins. No matter the consequences. With reference to :
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
It does not mean God's mercy necessarily stops at death.
There are times in scripture when the Lord changes gears to interject something that is apart from the context. But not in this passage we are talking about. We need the context here. Salted with fire means to be preserved through it. It means to only suffer the loss of some things pertaining to this life (pertaining to our old man) while not being completely destroyed (because we have a new man). That doesn't apply to those whose "whole body" gets thrown into the fire. Remember Jesus sayin to "fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in gehenna (fire)". Being cast into the lake of fire after death is not the same thing as being "salted" with fire in this life, which believers undergo in this life. In this passage He is speaking to and addressing believers, both then and now.
Old testament sacrifices were offered with a sprinkling of salt.......and the people had to bring their own sacrifices on set feast days, like believers have our part in making sacrifices in our lives by counting the cost of following Jesus........the passage here give us insight into what the salt was all about....preservation through the fire we undergo in this life (as opposed to being judged with the unbelieving world later)...not made a full end of. ...only our old man fleshly nature is being put to death.. The salt represents being sprinkled with the blood of Jesus. Unbelievers are not sprinkled with the blood....they are not salted.....because they are not in Christ. Thus they will not be preserved through the fire. Unbelievers do not have a "new man" for when their old man is destroyed.
Jesus said if we lose our life/psuche (old man) for His sake we will find it (our new life/new man), but if we seek to save our lfie/psuche in this world we will LOSE our life/soul. This is all about EITHER the salvation or ultimate destruction of the SOUL.. Don't see how it can be both ways...it's either one or the other. Mortality has to put on immortality...that is how the soul is saved/preserved. We need to first have the immortality (new man) to be able to put it on....and again, unbelievers dont' have the new man/immortality that preserves their soul.
That parable of the labourers in the vineyard was speaking to the Jews (who had laboured and been with God much longer) about the Gentiles....instructing them not to be jealous of them. Unbelievers are not working in God's vineyard at any time, neither in heat of day nor the cool of the evening, are they.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
True my dear sister . As you can see what was orginally preached by Christ and later the apostels
has fast been replaced with a lie . Folks have no idea what version of love they have been following .
As for the sheep , we shall POINT to CHRIST with the dire reminder YE MUST BELEIVE IN HIM to be saved .
The gospel has been replaced with another gospel which is NO gospel . Its a fable
meant for the destruction of all who bought it . As for us , WE shall point ONLY to CHRIST JESUS
and remind all of the absolute dire need to repent and Beleive ON HIM .
Pointing to no other hope and leaving none in darkness .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
well aint that a fable .
You say by me saying WE MUST BELIEVE ON CHRIST to be saved that i am pointing to Myself to be saved .
AND what
would you have told philip , or peter , john , or paul and silas .
Sirs what must I DO to b e saved .
And their response , BELEIVE ON CHRIST JESUS . guess they were just as lost as i am .
You , been duped badly .
What you dont realize is
yalls mindset , this mindset that is against the preaching of JESUS , to BELEIVE ON HIM .
IT AINT COMING FROM GOD .
GOD DESIRES LIFE , not death .
ITS COM ING from he who first tempted eve in the garden .
WHEN it too said , SURELY YE SHALL NOT DIE . You all been decieved b ig time .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
You might wanna read thei responses .
Beebster accused me of denying Christ and making him appear POWERLESS to save
and myself b eing the one that saved me,
BECAUSE i PREACH THE DIRE NECESSITY TO HAVE TO BELEIVE ON JESUS CHRIST .
JESUS said the same .
The apostels said the same
but this guy thinks both i am them all are in error .
What he dont realize is
THE ONLY ONE who would want to silence the gospel of YE MUST BELEIVE to be saved
IT AINT GOD . FOR GOD DESIRES LIFE and not death .
ITS another one who DO desire the destruction of man . Its this one
SURELY YE SHALL NOT DIE . serpent gospel . and that gospel IS NOT gonna save them .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Pual . i pretended to know nothing amongst you , cept CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED .
that is who pual preached .
And this was also one of his warnings .
Not preaching the wisdom of men , words and etc
LEST THE CROSS OF CHRIST become of no effect .
This beebster fellow , WHO used the conversion of saul on that road
OUT OF TEXT to promote his fable , REALLY NEEDS to learn what THIS paul
and THE TRUE JESUS , and the apostels , and phillip and others
HAD to say and preach . OH IT WAS JESUS all right and it was THE dire reminder OF YE MUST BELEIVE ON HIM
to be saved , or p erish .
As even peter said to them all . Beware lest that come upon you which is written in the prophets
Behold wonder and PERISH for i work a work in your day .....................................
OH yes they KNEW sister . THEY KNEW who SAVED and they KNEW ye had to beleive on HIM , JESUS CHRIST , to be saved .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
the gospel by which you were saved , IF you keep in memory what i have preached unto you and not be moved away .
lest ye have BELEIVED in vain .
Someones been moved away from the gospel of YE must BELIEVE to be saved .
and now hopes in another gospel that IS NO GOSPEL .
As for the sheep , WE SHALL KEEP our confidence and our hope IN CHRIST , IN HIS GOSPEL , FIRM to THE END .
hoping in no other . fables grave , JESUS saves . And its about high time
this inclusive ecumenical ism following generation FIGURE THAT OUT fast .
Cause many are not gonna like what they hear ON HIS DAY .
for by their gospel THEY DENIED HIS GOSPEL which clearly states YE M UST BELIEVE TO BE SAVED .
Don't you believe in eternal security?
What does "not be moved away" mean?
What do you make of this?
John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Beebster
Active Member
I think you underestimate God's will.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1Ti 2:3-4)
It always amazes me when people believe that man's will is stronger than God's.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that HE AS GOD SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHEWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD. (2Th 2:3-4)
Beebster
Active Member
Yeah that's what I said; everyone.
It's just a matter of time.
Yes he did. You ever wonder why he wasn't always recognized?
Wow.
Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Salvation is literal also, but I don't see a whole lot of limbless Christians running around do?
Got it?
Good.
I don't.
But snipping Scripture I posted that proves you wrong without discussing it isn't right.
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The same thing i make of this , that they who BELEIVE in Him shall not perish b ut have everlasting life .
In other words i believe ALL of what is written . You make void things t hat are written
in order to support what YOU beleive.
We must do as did the early apostels . WHO always went about preaching the dire need TO beleive on CHRIST
and also shaking the dust off against t hose who heard and rejected him . I dont see that in you at all .
You non stop come to twist things to fit yalls idea , rather than POINTING ONLY TO CHRIST .
I believe that too.
Every knee will bow and every tongue knowledge Jesus is Lord,
in heaven, on earth and UNDER THE EARTH. (in the realm of the dead)
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
and yet preach contrary . even devils beleive steven . You in no way
resemble the message of the dire urgency preached by Christ and later the apotsels to BELIEvE ON HIM or perish .
All you do is come about to plant deconstructionists views , universalism and etc .
Steven your zeal is t otally misplaced . YOU SHOULD be warning all to Beleive on JESUS and the dire necessity to do so .
I AINT NEVER heard or seen you do this . ITs always your universalism and other isms you always preach .
Always coming to plant doubts about the bible , about the gospel itself .
Its sad really . IF you only had the zeal for preaching CHRIST as you do for preaching deconstruction
YOU MIGHT HAVE actually DONE SOME GOOD . but no , you leave folks in darkness and hav ing hope
in what YOU cliam as universalism .
Get up and PREACH the dire necessity to BELEIVE ON CHRIST . cause on HIS DAY , ITS TOO LATE . damnation
awaits . And no man knows HIS DAY , anymore than they know the day of their own d eath .YOU NEED
to get busy preaching the dire need to BELEIVE
and teaching ALL THINGS HE said , not just a few twisted lines . ALL THINGS HE said .
On a Christian forum? Are all the members lost? - LOL
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