The Third Woe

[Trekson]

You've got it kind of backwards...

Each sounding of a Trumpet coincides with a Woe, representing a specific time period.

The 6th Trumpet and 2 Woe ends the 5th Trumpet-1st Woe period.

The 7th Trumpet and 3rd Woe ends the 6th Trumpet-2nd Woe period.

That means only certain 'events' are assigned to occur within... each Trumpet-Woe period.

The 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period is the time of "great tribulation" with the "dragon" reigning over all nations for 42 months.

The 7th Trumpet-3rd Woe is the day of Lord Jesus' coming to do battle with His army, and gather His Church.

The scriptures don't say that. The GT begins when the AoD is set up in Rev. 13:14-15 as prophesied. If you want to ignore the explicitness of the 3rd woe identified by the angel to John in Rev. 12:12, that's up to you.

 

[Trekson]

In Joshua chapter 6 we read about seven priests - each has a trumpet - and each priest blows his trumpet once as the people march around the walls of Jericho, for six days. On the 7th day the people marched around the city 7 times, and at the time of the 7th march around the city and the blowing of the 7th trumpet, the people gave a great shout, and the walls of Jericho fell.

In the Revelation we read about seven angels - and each has a trumpet - and each angel blows his trumpet once, and at the time of the blowing of the 7th trumpet (and the pouring out of the 7th bowl of wrath), the cities of the nations fell (Revelation 16:19).

Just look how the Revelation is wrapped - and bear in mind that no one ever sealed a blank scroll, and the loosening of the 7th seal causes what was already written in the scroll to be seen - because that's when the scroll unrolled.

The second woe is the 6th trumpet, as you mentioned:

666 (6TH TRUMPET, 6TH BOWL OF WRATH, 6TH SEAL) | Armageddon |

6th TRUMPET - THE SECOND "WOE" - KEY SYMBOLS:

1. EUPHRATES - THE TIMING: I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

(Timing): And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year. (Revelation 9:13-15).

2. FIRE, SMOKE, AND BRIMSTONE: And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions;

3. MOUTHS: and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS. For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. (Revelation 9:17-19).

6TH BOWL OF WRATH (Chapter 16) KEY SYMBOLS:

1. EUPHRATES: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

2. MOUTHS: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
​

--- Behold, I come as a thief.
Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments,
lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. ---

And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." (Revelation 16:13-16).​

Compare Jesus's interjection in the middle of the 6th bowl of wrath with the loosening of the 6th seal:

6th SEAL:

"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath has come; and who shall be able to stand?"

777 | JUDGMENT / FINAL PLAGUE / BOWL OF WRATH

KEY SYMBOL: Lightnings and thunderings:

- seen at the time of the receiving of the Testament: lightnings, thunderings (Exodus 20:18).

- seen proceeding out of the throne in heaven: lightnings, thunderings, and voices (Revelation 4:5).

- seen when the 7th bowl of wrath is being poured out: lightnings, thunderings.

- seen when the 7th trumpet is blown: lightnings, thunderings, and the Ark of the Testament.

- seen when the 7th seal has been loosened (Revelation 8:5): lightnings, thunderings.

If you're searching for a tribulation that the world endures when God's wrath is being poured out rather than a great tribulation that the saints will endure at the hand of the beast before the rapture and before the 7th trumpet sounds, then you are not going to understand the Revelation properly.

Likewise if you are looking for a 7-year tribulation instead of only a 42 month tribulation.

Likewise if you are looking for a covenant "signed by "the Antichrist" with Israel."​

I do not agree that the 1st seal = the 1st trump = the the 1st vial. They are in a consecutive order but I don't think the 1st seal is the beginning of the 70th week. I don't know about you, but I have heard thunder countless times in my life, to assume they all speak of the same thing is making a giant leap of assumption. There is a whole lot involved w/ the 7th trump, but the vials aren't part of them. They are the wrath of God, which is different from the wrath of the Lamb. The concept of a 7 yr. trib I agree is false but so is the concept of a 3 1/2 yr. GT is as well because there is no time duration given for it. All we are told is that it will be shortened. To believe it will be shortened to 3 1/2 yrs. is reading something into scripture something that isn't there. Wrath and tribulation are two completely different things. Just so you know, there is still a lot left after the 7th trump. The 7th trump is "not" the last trump spoken of by Paul. The last trump is associated w/ the feast of trumpets and it is sounded by God, not an angel, Zech. 9:14. My eschatology concerning the rapture is called post-persecution.

 

[Trekson]

The Gog/Magog event will be right before the 7 years begin. Making war against Israel.

The Armageddon event will be at the end of the 7 years. Making war against Jesus and His army of Heaven, at the time of Jesus's return.

View attachment 80837

Sorry, but I believe Ez. 38 to be post mill and is the same war as Rev. 20:8-9. Ez. 39 is a different time going back to Armageddon, but Armageddon doesn't end the 70th week. There will still be 45-75 days left.

 

[Davy]

The scriptures don't say that. The GT begins when the AoD is set up in Rev. 13:14-15 as prophesied. If you want to ignore the explicitness of the 3rd woe identified by the angel to John in Rev. 12:12, that's up to you.

The subject of my post, and reply to your post, was the last 3 Trumpet-Woe periods of Rev.9 through 11, NOT Rev.13.

 

[Douggg]

Sorry, but I believe Ez. 38 to be post mill and is the same war as Rev. 20:8-9. Ez. 39 is a different time going back to Armageddon, but Armageddon doesn't end the 70th week. There will still be 45-75 days left.

Armageddon is actually the place of gathering, assembling the armies of the kings of the earth together. It refers to a big flat plain below the mount of Meggido in Israel.

The assembling will take place over a 45 days period - from the day that the sign of the Son of man appears in heaven until the day that Jesus descends to earth with His army of heaven.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding Ezekiel 38-39 perhaps being post millennium....

Right after the destruction of the attackers on Israel and Jerusalem, by fire coming down from heaven from God, the devil, Satan, will be cast into the lake of fire

Following that destruction In Revelation 20:8-9, there is not 7 years, nor 7 months of cleaning up the land of Israel in that text. Unlike what is in Ezekiel 39. So Revelation 20:8-9 is not the same event as Ezekiel 38-39.

Instead, Revelation 20:11-15 takes place following the last rebellion the nations. Revelation 20:11-15 is about The Great White Throne judgment events. Not a cleaning up of the land of Israel.

 

[ewq1938]

Are the three woes contained within the 5th-7th trumpet,

The 3 trumpets are the woes because of the events that begin when each is sounded.

yes and satan being cast down is "literally identified as THE woe contained in the 7th

Can't be since Jesus comes at the 7th trump. How could satan be cast here at the same time Jesus comes? Satan is cast here before the 6th trump/tribulation starts according to the verses in Rev 12.

 

[ewq1938]

The two witnesses killed, bodies dead for 3 1/2 days, then their bodies brought back to life, then the strong earthquake in Jerusalem - all those things go together, I agree.

But.... Revelation 11:14 is not a continuation. Revelation 11:14, John switches back to talking about the woes.

There is noting contained in Revelation 11:3-13, that even remotely speaks about the events of the second woe.

The text of Revelation 11:14 could be misunderstood, when considering the wording.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

What John is meaning is that it has already been revealed to the reader what the second woe will be (back in Revelation 9). And that shortly it will be revealed to the reader what the third woe will be (in Revelation 12).

The 3rd woe takes place in Rev 11, so the verses before that event in the chp are events of the second woe.

 

[Douggg]

Can't be since Jesus comes at the 7th trump. How could satan be cast here at the same time Jesus comes? Satan is cast here before the 6th trump/tribulation starts according to the verses in Rev 12.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

You are a reader of Revelation, correct ?

You read Revelation 8:13 about there being three woes to the inhabiters of the earth, correct ?

You read what the first and second woes will be in Revelation 9, correct ?

When you continue reading Revelation after Revelation 11:14, do you not read Revelation 12:12, woe to the inhabiters of the earth ? That will last a time/times/half time ?

 

[Douggg]

The 3rd woe takes place in Rev 11, so the verses before that event in the chp are events of the second woe.

A third of men killed by a 200,000,000 man army (the second woe) in Revelation 11 verses ? No, incorrect.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

You are a reader of Revelation, correct ?

You read Revelation 8:13 about there being three woes to the inhabiters of the earth, correct ?

You read what the first and second woes will be in Revelation 9, correct ?

Yes and the 3rd woe is in Rev 11, and that means the events prior to that in Rev 11 are the 2nd woe.

When you continue reading Revelation after Revelation 11:14, do you not read Revelation 12:12, woe to the inhabiters of the earth ? That will last a time/times/half time ?

That verse takes place before the second woe events found in Rev 13 so at best it could be the 1st woe or it's just a verbal warning unrelated to any woe trumps. I see the trib starting in Rev 13, and I believe that is what happens in the 2nd woe.

View attachment 80854

 

[ewq1938]

A third of men killed by a 200,000,000 man army (the second woe) in Revelation 11 verses ? No, incorrect.

The first part of Rev 11 is within the 2nd woe. That can't really be debated against since the 3rd woe happens in Rev 11.

 

[Douggg]

The first part of Rev 11 is within the 2nd woe.

What specific verse(s) in Revelation 11:3-13 speak about a third of men killed by a 200,000,000 army (the second woe) ?

 

[Douggg]

Yes and the 3rd woe is in Rev 11

Where in Revelation 11 is the term "woe to the inhabiters of the earth" found ?

 

[ewq1938]

What specific verse(s) in Revelation 11:3-13 speak about a third of men killed by a 200,000,000 army (the second woe) ?

It doesn't just like the other passage doesn't mention the two witnesses. Both happen in the second woe. Rev 19 is the second coming but so is the 7th trump but neither passage has the same info despite being the same timeframe. Wait til you read the gospels because the same timeframe will not have the same exact info either.

 

[ewq1938]

Where in Revelation 11 is the term "woe to the inhabiters of the earth" found ?

Where in Rev did John write any English words?

 

[Douggg]

It doesn't just like the other passage doesn't mention the two witnesses.

What other passage ?

 

[Douggg]

Where in Rev did John write any English words?

Please address the question.

Where in Revelation 11 is the term "woe to the inhabiters of the earth" found ?

 

[Zao is life]

I don't know about you, but I have heard thunder countless times in my life, to assume they all speak of the same thing is making a giant leap of assumption.

OK so you don't even understand the basics of what certain things symbolize in scripture, and you want to interpret the Book of Revelation. O-K. It shows:

There is a whole lot involved w/ the 7th trump, but the vials aren't part of them.

The 7th trumpet and the 7th vial is the same - the Day of Judgment - just like the Israelites were only delivered through the dead sea when Pharaoh's armies were destroyed and all the other vials of judgment had already been poured out upon 'the beast' by then, while they were still in Egypt.

You have no idea of how to use sound biblical hermeneutic and you show yourself unable to interpret scripture with scripture.

They are the wrath of God, which is different from the wrath of the Lamb.

Absolute nonsense. God's judge IS the Lamb. The beast's war is against the Lamb, and against the saints (Rev 13:7).

The concept of a 7 yr. trib I agree is false but so is the concept of a 3 1/2 yr. GT is as well because there is no time duration given for it.

The words tribulation, distress, affliction are only used in the New Testament in reference to what the saints experience in the world at the hands of unbelievers.

Two of the only three times this tribulation is described as "great" tribulation in the New Testament, is in the Revelation where the second time it is referring to what the saints experienced,

and the first time it's referring to what Christ warns an adulterous congregation she will experience because He Himself will hand them over to great tribulation unless they repent.

The first time "great" tribulation is mentioned is in Matthew 24:21-22 where it is promised the days will be shortened for the elect's sake and the context of the passage is the tribulation Jesus said the saints will be handed over to at the end of the Age (nothing else - Jerusalem and the temple are not even mentioned by Jesus in Matthew or Mark's record of the Olivet discourse, nor is the temple mentioned in Luke's version).

All we are told is that it will be shortened. To believe it will be shortened to 3 1/2 yrs. is reading something into scripture something that isn't there.

If you are implying that I said that Jesus said in the Olivet Discourse the days of great tribulation it will be shortened for the elect's sake "to 42 months or 3.5 years",

then you are a liar and what you are doing is to read into what I only mentioned the Revelation saying about the reign of the beast.

If that's what you are doing it betrays dishonesty on your part, which is indicative of the fact that you do not know or understand what you are talking about.

Wrath and tribulation are two completely different things.

I'm glad you realize that. Pity you show that you do not believe scripture by asserting that in scripture tribulation and great tribulation refers to what comes upon unbelievers by the hands of God (the Lamb) and the other refers to the wrath of God that will come upon unbelievers at the hand of God.

Just so you know, there is still a lot left after the 7th trump.

Just so you know, I know that you do not know what you are talking about and have chosen what parts of scripture you will believe and what parts you won't, and have decided what you will add to scripture - and therefore there is no point in me continuing in any discussion with you about your fallacies.

 

[Douggg]

I see the trib starting in Rev 13, and I believe that is what happens in the 2nd woe.

Revelation 13 covers 42 months. I made a new thread, "The Second Woe", of when during that 42 months, the second half of the 7 years, the second woe will take place.

 

[Trekson]

The subject of my post, and reply to your post, was the last 3 Trumpet-Woe periods of Rev.9 through 11, NOT Rev.13.

Sorry, but the events within the 7th trump consists of everything between Rev. 11-15 until the first vial of Rev. 16.