Pictures of Two Comings

[rwb]

Since, I've already pointed out that the 7th trump isn't the last trump, maybe a little study on the three fall feasts of Israel may be helpful to your understanding.

You may have mentioned that, however that is NOT according to Scripture. Scripture, which tells us that when the last/seventh trumpet begins to sound, time, given this earth for building the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven, shall be no longer, or as some translation write there shall no longer be delay. Because at the sounding of the last/seventh trumpet the mystery of God shall be finished, and Christ shall come again to burn up this first earth to prepare a way for the new heaven and new earth to come down from heaven. Because it is at the sounding of the last/seventh trumpet the saints shall be bodily changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible, fit for everlasting life with Christ on the new earth.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[Trekson]

"The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:19-24).

THREE GROUPS OF HUMANS WHO CAME FROM OUT OF THE ABRAHAMIC FAITH OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB (which Muslims do not believe in)

1. The tiny remainder of the Samaritans who still live in "The West Bank" today. They are a mixed breed descended from (a) the remnant of Israelites whom the king of Assyria left in the land after exiling the rest, and (b) Gentiles whom the king resettled among them, in Samaria.

They still worship on the same mountain, Mt. Gerizim.

They believe the Word of God - but only the part they are prepared to believe, which is the Torah - the five books of Moses - but the prophets and all the other Jewish books they do not believe.

Why?

It's because according to the prophets they (the ten northern tribes of Israel, collectively called "Ephraim" in scripture) ceased being a nation before God at the time of the exile brought about by the king of Assyria (Isaiah 7:8).

So they take away from the Word of God because they only believe the parts of the Word of God that they are prepared to believe.

Therefore they do not understand how their eventual restoration to God has been made possible in Christ (Hosea 1:9-11; Romans 9:25-26).

2. Later in terms of being cut off from being a people before God, they were joined (at the time of Christ) by those who took Christ's New Covenant away from the Word of God, being prepared to believe only the part of the Word of God they had chosen to believe.

3. Still later, they have been joined by two groups of people:

(a) Those who take away from the Word of God the parts of the Word of God that they are not prepared to believe (Preterism, for example); and

(b) Those who add their own meanings to the Word of God that are not there, twisting scripture in their futile attempts to get scripture to conform or comply with the things they WANT to believe scripture is saying.

Both of the above two groups change the meaning of scripture as though they can force scripture to comply with only what they are prepared to believe and WANT TO believe.

You fall into both the first and second divisions of the third group mentioned above, IMO.

Go ahead now and say that I'm standing by a mirror pointing that finger at myself, because predictably that is what you will need to say in defense of your adding to, and taking away from, biblical scripture,

but know this:

"The Father's house" in which are many mansions is the only House of God on earth - and Jesus suffered for ours sins and died, rose again from the dead and ascended into heaven, and then sent down His Spirit upon His house in order to prepare a place for us in His Father's house - as He Himself had said.

God did not create Adam and Eve to live with Him in heaven. He created Adam and Eve to live on His created earth in their created bodies. Death is the enemy of God.

The time is coming when God is going to send strong delusion upon all those who claim to believe the Word of God but only believe the parts that they are prepared to believe, choosing the lies they WANT to believe, which many in the third group mentioned above have (like yourself) gotten from "delving deeper into the Word of God" while using their own human intellect that is based on the premise of (a) choosing to only believe the parts of the Word of God that they are prepared to believe, and (b) adding their own fantasies to the Word of God, and then conflating their own human intellect with "the teaching of the Holy Spirit."

I'm sorry you feel that way but everything I speak of, goes along w/ the "whole" of what the bible teaches about prophecy. I don't have to defend myself, the bible does it for me. If you want to discuss a couple of specifics at a time, I'm up for it, but a four page dossier on why I must be a wicked human being for believing what I have been shown throughout my decades of study, I'd rather not. Your choice to not believe in heaven is just that, your choice, because the bible sure as heck doesn't deny its existence. I doubt very much that what you believe is 100% accurate, because none of us is perfect. However, it's not impossible that we each might learn something new.

 

[Trekson]

You may have mentioned that, however that is NOT according to Scripture. Scripture, which tells us that when the last/seventh trumpet begins to sound, time, given this earth for building the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven, shall be no longer, or as some translation write there shall no longer be delay. Because at the sounding of the last/seventh trumpet the mystery of God shall be finished, and Christ shall come again to burn up this first earth to prepare a way for the new heaven and new earth to come down from heaven. Because it is at the sounding of the last/seventh trumpet the saints shall be bodily changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible, fit for everlasting life with Christ on the new earth.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Myself, and millions of others, believe that the bible teaches that the NHNENJ is "after" the millennial era.

 

[Marty fox]

I went back and answered the questions that I saw. Which one did I miss? John's description isn't any better, he just focused on the fact that the a/c doesn't work alone. He has had several years and millions of demons to help in the task of deceiving the church and its ability to recognize truth.

The original question that I asked who does Jesus reign over with a rod of iron if everyone is dead

 

[Marty fox]

When Jesus returns, he stand on the mount of Olives splitting it half.

Zechariah 14;4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

What does that have to do with my post?

 

[Trekson]

The original question that I asked who does Jesus reign over with a rod of iron if everyone is dead

Everyone isn't dead! Folks normally hear the phrase "rule with a rod of iron" and think of a dictatorial type person, beating on everyone who dares to disagree and it is like that in the secular world, but in the millennial era, it's not as severe as it sounds. Ruling with “a rod of iron” represents not just power, but righteousness and justice. When Christ rules He will lead with love, integrity, and humility but also w/ a firmness of it's a "my way or the highway" type of leadership. It is a tremendous responsibility that comes with immense significance, but "truth" will never be allowed to be distorted. But to answer the question, there will be 1/3 of Israel, Zech. 13:8-9, the 144,000 and all those who pass the post Armageddon sheep and goat judgement which will be based on works, not salvation as Matt. 25:34-40 shows. It could add up to about a billion people or more all told.

 

[Marty fox]

Everyone isn't dead! Folks normally hear the phrase "rule with a rod of iron" and think of a dictatorial type person, beating on everyone who dares to disagree and it is like that in the secular world, but in the millennial era, it's not as severe as it sounds. Ruling with “a rod of iron” represents not just power, but righteousness and justice. When Christ rules He will lead with love, integrity, and humility but also w/ a firmness of it's a "my way or the highway" type of leadership. It is a tremendous responsibility that comes with immense significance, but "truth" will never be allowed to be distorted. But to answer the question, there will be 1/3 of Israel, Zech. 13:8-9, the 144,000 and all those who pass the post Armageddon sheep and goat judgement which will be based on works, not salvation as Matt. 25:34-40 shows. It could add up to about a billion people or more all told.

Yes you have Christ true character I but this says all die

Revelation 19
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

If literal all do die

 

[Douggg]

What does that have to do with my post?

Marty, I think you were saying that Jesus in His return in Revelation 19 does not return all the way down to earth. Zechariah 14:4-5 proves that He does.

Also, you had quoted Revelation 19:18, about the fowls eating...

19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

...And interpreting the underlined part as all humans upon earth.

No, that verse is referring only to them making up the armies, which will have gathered together to make war on Jesus and His army of heaven, in....

Revelation19.19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

In Revelation 19:21, Jesus slays those armies....

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

----------------------------

If you go to Ezekiel 39:17-20, you will find the same feasting on the dead bodies as in Revelation 19:17-18..

In Ezekiel 39:21-29, is Jesus Himself speaking in the text. In Ezekiel 39:21, Jesus's says He will set his glory - presence on earth - among the heathen. Which He will then rule the nations with a rod of iron.... no more dictatorships and abusive governments.

Ezekiel 39:
21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

 

[Zao is life]

Your choice to not believe in heaven is just that, your choice, because the bible sure as heck doesn't deny its existence.

I'm not surprised you twisted my words again. Second time in one week. Does "God did not create Adam and Eve to live with Him in heaven" mean "Heaven does not exist"?

I'm not important though. What you do with scripture when you want to 'teach' others that scripture conforms to your own beliefs is way more important in terms of its effect on you. The Bible certainly does not defend you in everything you say.​

I doubt very much that what you believe is 100% accurate, because none of us is perfect. However, it's not impossible that we each might learn something new.

I agree that it's not impossible that we each could be wrong regarding something we believe scripture is saying (in fact it's highly likely we each are wrong regarding something we believe scripture is saying if others disagree and it's not a main-stream church teaching).

I'm not sure you apply that to yourself though, because in your other thread you claimed that those who disagree with your beliefs, disagree because they "have not delved or digged deep enough into scripture" (or words similar to that)

- which showed your opinion of your own beliefs and how you place your own understanding above anyone else's - and above the authority of the Word of God in the case of those who disagree with you when they are correct and it's you who is wrong about what the Word of God teaches.

In any case we don't learn anything 'new' when scripture corrects our false thinking. It was there all along - we just didn't see it - and very often when people learn something 'new' it's because it wasn't there at all - like the idea that we will be dwelling bodily in heaven with God:

Christ alone possesses immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:16.

No one can be immortal of himself unless he possseses life in himself. We are created human beings and God's purpose from the beginning was that Adam and Eve, who received the breath of life from God, would live in their immortal bodies on God's created earth - and God gave them dominion over everything on the earth - the works of His hands (Genesis 1:28; Psalm 8:6):

" What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas." (Psalms 8:4-8).

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." (Genesis 1:27-28).

That was, is and always will be God's purpose. There is nothing in scripture teaching us that after the 7th trumpet the resurrected saints will be dwelling bodily in heaven "until the second second advent of Christ".

Only Christ dwells bodily in heaven with God.

Christ alone possesses immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:16.

God does not change, and His purpose does not change. Scripture only teaches us that until the resurrection of the dead, the souls of those who die in Christ remain in Christ and are with Christ, who is in the bosom of the Father - but their bodies remain in the grave until the resurrection. We either dwell BODILY on this earth or we dwell BODILY on earth in the millennium - in the new earth when Christ makes all things new. God did not create human beings to dwell bodily with Him in heaven.

Even when we have been resurrected and are once again immortal, Christ alone possesses immortality because He alone posssesses life in Himself (John 5:26; John 1:4), and that life that He possesses in Himself is eternal life - eternal life which God gives to us in Christ (1 John 5:11-12). He alone possesses life in Himself.

The saints who suffered and were killed for the Word of God and the testimony to Christ they held, will be reigning over the twelve tribes of Israel as judges.

"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matthew 19:27-28).

The first three and the last three chapters of the Bible are the same - the first closes with:

1. Satan's deceit; and
2. Adam's rebellion against the Word of God, resulting in Adam being prevented by God from eathing of the tree of life and continuing to live forever (immortal) in that fallen sinful state.

The last three chapters of the Bible closes the first thousand years of the ages of the ages with the deceit of Satan and those who followed him, rebelling against the Word of God, being devoured by fire coming down from God out of heaven:

"Fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in gehennah." (Matthew 10:28). In Mark 9:44 Jesus described geheannah as the place where "their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Jesus used the word "gehennah" every time He spoke about eternal damnation. The beast and the false prophet were both cast alive into the lake of fire (Revelation 19).

There is no separation between the judgment seat of Christ when the dead are judged, and the new heavens and new earth in scripture - but there is a thousand years spoken of during which the saints who suffered and were killed for the Word of God and the testimony to Christ they held, will be reigning with Christ over the other saints - "the twelve tribes of Israel" - as judges.

Immortality did not make Adam or any created human beings descended from him other Gods with a higher case G - having life in themselves, as though we could not surely die, and cannot surely be devoured by fire coming down from God out of heaven if we rebel against the Word of God

- because God created human beings to live on His created earth in their created bodies, and breathed life into them in order that they may become living souls / beings, ruling over His created earth under His authority and in obedience to Him.

"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it;

and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign to the ages of the ages." (Revelation 22:2-5).

His servants serving Him and reigning to the ages of the ages is a whole lot longer than the first thousand years during which the saints who suffered and were killed for the Word of God and the testimony to Christ they held, will be reigning over the twelve tribes of Israel as judges.​

 

[Zao is life]

Of course I believe all of that but that has nothing to do with the question

You added that Jesus and the saints come down to the earth

DI’d God come down to the earth when Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed of did He send fore and brimstone?

You added to the scriptures

Are the beast, the false prophet and the beast's armies going to go up to heaven - or up to the clouds (the sky) - to be defeated by Christ?

Did God come down from heaven and appear in the clouds (the sky) followed by His armies of saints when Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed?

You took away from the scriptures.

"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" (Revelation 6:15-17).​

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 19
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

All people in that army is the context. The same passage promises a rule over the nations after Armageddon and they have to be alive for that, which is seen in Rev 20. They don't die until the Mill is over and they join satan's army and surround Jerusalem.

 

[ewq1938]

The text of Matthew 24:31 contains nothing about a resurrection.

The text of 1Co 15:35+ contains nothing about a rapture.

 

[ewq1938]

Of course I believe all of that but that has nothing to do with the question

You added that Jesus and the saints come down to the earth

The first coming was from heaven to the Earth, and the second coming is also from heaven to the Earth. Do you think the second coming is Jesus staying where he has been for 2k years?

 

[Douggg]

The text of 1Co 15:35+ contains nothing about a rapture.

The resurrection/rapture event is the mystery that Paul spoke about in 1Corinthians15:51-54. And since we are living in the parable of the fig tree generation, it is close at hand. Not later than the end of 2033.

1Corinthians15:
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Trekson]

Yes you have Christ true character I but this says all die

Revelation 19
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

If literal all do die

Those are the armies of Armageddon. Just like today, not everybody in a nation is in their country's army. There are all kinds of men in the world's armies, "free, bond, small and great men and women"

 

[Trekson]

I'm not surprised you twisted my words. Does "God did not create Adam and Eve to live with Him in heaven" mean "Heaven does not exist"?

I'm not important though. What you do with scripture when you want to 'teach' others that scripture conforms to your own beliefs is way more important in terms of its effect on you. The Bible certainly does not defend you in everything you say.



I agree that it's not impossible that we each could be wrong regarding something we believe scripture is saying (in fact it's highly likely we each are wrong regarding something we believe scripture is saying if others disagree and it's not a main-stream church teaching).

I'm not sure you apply that to yourself though, because in your other thread you claimed that those who disagree with your beliefs, disagree because they "have not delved or digged deep enough into scripture" (or words similar to that)

- which showed your opinion of your own beliefs and how you place your own understanding above anyone else's - and above the authority of the Word of God in the case of those who disagree with you when they are correct and it's you who is wrong about what the Word of God teaches.

In any case we don't learn anything 'new' when scripture corrects our false thinking. It was there all along - we just didn't see it - and very often when people learn something 'new' it's because it wasn't there at all - like the idea that we will be dwelling bodily in heaven with God:

Christ alone possesses immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:16.

No one can be immortal of himself unless he possseses life in himself. We are created human beings and God's purpose from the beginning was that Adam and Eve, who received the breath of life from God, would live in their immortal bodies on God's created earth - and God gave them dominion over everything on the earth - the works of His hands (Genesis 1:28; Psalm 8:6):

" What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas." (Psalms 8:4-8).

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." (Genesis 1:27-28).

That was, is and always will be God's purpose. There is nothing in scripture teaching us that after the 7th trumpet the resurrected saints will be dwelling bodily in heaven "until the second second advent of Christ".

Only Christ dwells bodily in heaven with God.

Christ alone possesses immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:16.

God does not change, and His purpose does not change. Scripture only teaches us that until the resurrection of the dead, the souls of those who die in Christ remain in Christ and are with Christ, who is in the bosom of the Father - but their bodies remain in the grave until the resurrection. We either dwell BODILY on this earth or we dwell BODILY on earth in the millennium - in the new earth when Christ makes all things new. God did not create human beings to dwell bodily with Him in heaven.

Even when we have been resurrected and are once again immortal, Christ alone possesses immortality because He alone posssesses life in Himself (John 5:26; John 1:4), and that life that He possesses in Himself is eternal life - eternal life which God gives to us in Christ (1 John 5:11-12). He alone possesses life in Himself.

The saints who suffered and were killed for the Word of God and the testimony to Christ they held, will be reigning over the twelve tribes of Israel as judges.

"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matthew 19:27-28).

The first three and the last three chapters of the Bible are the same - the first closes with:

1. Satan's deceit; and
2. Adam's rebellion against the Word of God, resulting in Adam being prevented by God from eathing of the tree of life and continuing to live forever (immortal) in that fallen sinful state.

The last three chapters of the Bible closes the first thousand years of the ages of the ages with the deceit of Satan and those who followed him, rebelling against the Word of God, being devoured by fire coming down from God out of heaven:

"Fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in gehennah." (Matthew 10:28). In Mark 9:44 Jesus described geheannah as the place where "their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Jesus used the word "gehennah" every time He spoke about eternal damnation. The beast and the false prophet were both cast alive into the lake of fire (Revelation 19).

There is no separation between the judgment seat of Christ when the dead are judged, and the new heavens and new earth in scripture - but there is a thousand years spoken of during which the saints who suffered and were killed for the Word of God and the testimony to Christ they held, will be reigning with Christ over the other saints - "the twelve tribes of Israel" - as judges.

Immortality did not make Adam or any created human beings descended from him other Gods with a higher case G - having life in themselves, as though we could not surely die, and cannot surely be devoured by fire coming down from God out of heaven if we rebel against the Word of God

- because God created human beings to live on His created earth in their created bodies, and breathed life into them in order that they may become living souls / beings, ruling over His created earth under His authority and in obedience to Him.

"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it;

and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign to the ages of the ages." (Revelation 22:2-5).

His servants serving Him and reigning to the ages of the ages is a whole lot longer than the first thousand years during which the saints who suffered and were killed for the Word of God and the testimony to Christ they held, will be reigning over the twelve tribes of Israel as judges.​

That's the thing about unity. Christ is the head and we are his body, so combined "bodily", we will live in heaven but the trip back to earth will only take a blink of an eye. When we are immortal, what use will we have of the earth? The immortality we have will not be the same as the immortality of Adam and Eve, they started off immortal, lost immortality, yet I believe their souls are in heaven awaiting the unification w/ their perfected bodies. They were immortal in their flesh, we will be immortal in spirit, yet w/ a body, just like Christ's. It's too long to post but please re-read 1 Cor. 15:42-54. We start off mortal but end up immortal, we will never lose our immortality but that doesn't make "Gods". There are a few scriptures that seem to speak about life after death and living in a heavenly realm. We have Samuel being summoned from the grave, the taking of Elijah and Enoch to heaven, Lazarus and the rich man, Moses and Elijah on the Mt. of Transfiguration. Where have they been hanging out? We have the souls of the martyrs under the altar "in heaven" and they are given robes to wear so they have bodies. The rapture/resurrected appear in heaven in Rev. 7:9-15! What about the vast majority of saints who were not martyred? What will they be doing? It's quite possible that those who will judge over the 12 tribes will be "from" the 12 tribes, so what about all the non-Jewish martyrs? We can't all be ruling and reigning because at this point the raptured/resurrected will probably out- number the living a hundred to one or so. When the NJ descends from the heavens we will be coming with it.

 

[rwb]

Myself, and millions of others, believe that the bible teaches that the NHNENJ is "after" the millennial era.

Yes, I believe that also! What I don't believe is that the thousand years shall come AFTER Christ returns again. Because when Christ returns when the last/seventh trumpet sounds, the age of eternity shall begin. An age where there shall be no more sin, death, no more dying because all things will be made new.

 

[Marty fox]

Those are the armies of Armageddon. Just like today, not everybody in a nation is in their country's army. There are all kinds of men in the world's armies, "free, bond, small and great men and women"

But it says all people "and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”" they are separated from the armies in the text. The clue is that its not a literal battle as the only weapon mentioned is the sword of Jeus mouth which is His word which is all powerful and all He needs
just like in the verse below.

Revelation 2
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
.

 

[Marty fox]

The first coming was from heaven to the Earth, and the second coming is also from heaven to the Earth. Do you think the second coming is Jesus staying where he has been for 2k years?

No I'm saying that wasn't the second coming

 

[Marty fox]

Marty, I think you were saying that Jesus in His return in Revelation 19 does not return all the way down to earth. Zechariah 14:4-5 proves that He does.

Also, you had quoted Revelation 19:18, about the fowls eating...

19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

...And interpreting the underlined part as all humans upon earth.

No, that verse is referring only to them making up the armies, which will have gathered together to make war on Jesus and His army of heaven, in....

Revelation19.19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

In Revelation 19:21, Jesus slays those armies....

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

----------------------------

If you go to Ezekiel 39:17-20, you will find the same feasting on the dead bodies as in Revelation 19:17-18..

In Ezekiel 39:21-29, is Jesus Himself speaking in the text. In Ezekiel 39:21, Jesus's says He will set his glory - presence on earth - among the heathen. Which He will then rule the nations with a rod of iron.... no more dictatorships and abusive governments.

Ezekiel 39:
21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

But it says all people "and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”" they are separated from the armies in the text. The clue is that its not a literal battle as the only weapon mentioned is the sword of Jeus mouth which is His word which is all powerful and all He needs just like in the verse below.

Revelation 2
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.