Should we as Christians support the State of Israel ?

[RepentingChristian]

I believe that God is absolutely sovereign over every little aspect of His creation, including what "Satan is doing". You either believe He is sovereign over all or you don't. Now do you believe He is or not???

Yes, I do. I believe that God is utilizing Satan as a part of his master plan. I believe that Satan is doing EXACTLY what God created him to do. I also believe that, in the end, Satan will be pure and holy and will kneel beside us in God's Kingdom to worship our Heavenly Father.

 

[Davy]

I have no idea where you got that ridiculous idea about a pre Adamic world. But I can assure you that it is absurd rubbish, and it sounds like it came from the Satanic Bible.

Oooo.... nice try at pushing propaganda against The Word of God!

Evidently you are completely ignorant of God's parable about Lucifer in Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14, where He used the flesh king of Tyrus and kings of Assyria and Pharaoh as 'types' for the devil. And by your ignorance, you reveal you don't have a clue about a previous world when Lucifer was "perfect in his ways" like God had created him. That has NEVER happened for this present world, the devil only by the time of Adam and Eve had already fallen, and was in his role as Tempter. The requires... that we understand there was a previous time, a previous world, when the devil followed God, and served as an anointed cherub that covereth, meaning his original job was to guard God's Throne.

Your not knowing about that means you have missed... a whole lot of God's Truth He gave in His Word.

So what have you been doing instead of Bible study?

 

[Davy]

I disagree. The current plot of land known as Israel was once a barren wasteland. Now its land is an agricultural success.

Israel is widely recognized as a global leader in agricultural innovation and efficiency, turning significant environmental challenges into a, particularly in arid regions. Despite having limited water resources and over 60% of its land as desert, the country has achieved high levels of food security and agricultural export.

Key components of Israel's agricultural success include:

Water Management & Innovation: Israel is a pioneer in drip irrigation, treating and reusing up to 90% of its wastewater for agricultural purposes. It also relies on large-scale desalination to bolster its water supply.

Desert Farming (Negev): Innovative techniques have allowed for productive farming in the Negev Desert, which covers over 60% of the country.
High Yields and Technology: Israel achieves some of the highest agricultural yields in the world, including, for example, 300 tons of tomatoes per hectare compared to a 50-ton global average.
Advanced AgTech: The country integrates artificial intelligence, robots for harvesting, and, specifically in the Jordan Valley, advanced, high-tech methods for cultivating crops like Medjool dates.
Key Crops and Exports: While citrus (like Jaffa oranges) was historically significant, avocado has become a major export, with 127,000 tons exported in 2024, making it a leading agricultural product alongside other fruits, vegetables, and dairy.

You can quote Israel's GNP all you want today, but it still will never equal the production and economies of the Western Christian nations.

Even during the time of Jesus' 1st coming, much of the wine in Israel was imported from Italy. So where has been the largest crop and wine producing nations on earth? In the Christian West. That fulfilled the plenty of corn and wine promise.

Who controls the gates of their enemies? The Christian West, which built the Suez and Panama canals even, and has the most powerful military on earth. That fulfilled the controlling one's enemy's gates promise.

Who has the promise of always have a king upon the throne? The Western Christian nations. The nation of Israel today no longer has a king upon a throne; last one was Zedekiah of Judah in the days of Nebuchadnezzar.

Where is the blessing of a Seed as many as the stars of the sky, and sands of the sea? In the Western Christian nations, which make up many, many more people than the Jews in today's nation of Israel, or in the whole world for that matter.

Who has care of the Gospel of Jesus Christ? The Christian nations. The orthodox Jews that make up the majority in today's nation of Israel still REJECT THE GOSPEL. So that promise certainly is not fulfilled by them.

Should I keep going?

 

[RepentingChristian]

That's the first time I've ever heard anyone claim that Fascism is a left wing ideology. So what is Communism in your estimation?, these two are supposed to be opposite's.

Communism as as far left as possible on the ideological spectrum because it entails government ownership of everything. Fascism is to the right of communism because it permits private ownership but, like communism, rejects free market economics in favor of a government-managed economy. The political right traditionally favor limited government and a market that is as free as possible from government control.

Here is a more detailed explanation.



Fascism is a left-wing ideology because it is fundamentally a collectivist, statist, revolutionary movement that prioritizes the group (the nation, the race, the people) over the individual, demands total state control over society and the economy, and rejects classical liberal principles of limited government and free markets. The conventional placement of fascism on the “far right” is a post-World War II political convenience that ignores its actual intellectual DNA, policy substance, and historical origins. Here is the argument, step by step.

1. It was born on the left and never left the family.

Benito Mussolini, the inventor of fascism, was not a disaffected conservative or monarchist. He was a lifelong socialist: editor of the Italian Socialist Party’s newspaper *Avanti!*, a Marxist theorist, and an internationalist who praised Lenin and the Bolshevik Revolution. When he broke with the socialists over World War I (he supported intervention; they did not), he did not swing right—he created a national version of socialism. He explicitly called fascism “the socialism of the 20th century.” The 1919 Fascist Manifesto demanded progressive taxation, an eight-hour workday, worker participation in industry management, and state seizure of unproductive land—standard left-wing fare. The only major change was replacing “international class struggle” with “national struggle.” That is a family quarrel on the left, not a migration to the right.

2. Its economics are socialist, not capitalist.

Fascism’s core economic doctrine—corporatism—is state-directed collectivism. Private property and corporations exist only at the pleasure of the state; they must serve the “national interest” as defined by the dictator. Mussolini nationalized the banks, created massive public works programs, imposed price and wage controls, and subordinated all production to central planning boards. Hitler’s regime did the same: the Nazis seized control of heavy industry, banned independent unions, created the Reichsarbeitsdienst labor service, and pursued autarky and massive deficit spending. Both systems hated laissez-faire capitalism and “bourgeois” liberalism. The right-wing tradition (classical liberalism, conservatism in the Burkean sense) defends private property and voluntary exchange. Fascism treats them as instruments of state power. That is left-wing economics with a nationalist paint job.

3. It is explicitly anti-individualist and collectivist.

The deepest cleavage in politics is not “tradition vs. change” or “nationalism vs. globalism.” It is **individualism vs. collectivism.

- Classical liberalism and conservatism (the historic “right”) start with the individual and limit state power to protect rights.

- Socialism, communism, and fascism start with the group—class, race, or nation—and subordinate the individual to it.

Fascist ideology is drenched in collectivist language: “Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state” (Mussolini). The individual has no rights except those granted by the collective. Hitler’s 25-point Nazi program (still official in 1945) demanded the “common good before individual good,” abolition of “unearned incomes,” profit-sharing, and nationalization of trusts. Sound familiar? It is the same moral grammar as Marxism, just with the in-group redefined as the Volk instead of the proletariat.

4. The Nazi name and program were not ironic.

The National Socialist German Workers’ Party did not choose that title as a marketing gimmick. Hitler, Goebbels, and the early Nazis repeatedly called themselves socialists fighting “Jewish finance capitalism.” Gregor and Otto Strasser led an explicitly anti-capitalist, pro-labor wing. The regime’s policies—universal conscription, cradle-to-grave welfare, state housing, public health campaigns, and the “Strength Through Joy” leisure program—were social-democratic in form, only racialized. After 1945, embarrassed leftists retroactively reclassified Nazis as “right-wing” to protect socialism’s brand. The historical record shows otherwise.

5. The left-right spectrum itself proves the point.

The original left-right spectrum comes from the French Revolution: the left sat with the revolutionaries who wanted to abolish the old order and centralize power in a new egalitarian state; the right defended throne, altar, and limited government. Fascism and communism were both revolutionary movements that despised the bourgeois liberal center. They competed for the same constituency—disaffected workers, intellectuals, and youth—using almost identical rhetoric about smashing capitalism and creating a new man. The only real difference was communism’s internationalism versus fascism’s hyper-nationalism. That is a quarrel *within* the revolutionary left, exactly like the Trotsky-Stalin split. Calling fascism “right-wing” because it fought communists is like calling Trotsky “right-wing” because he fought Stalin.

6. Modern policy overlap confirms it
Big-government progressivism today—central economic planning, speech codes, identity politics (now racial/gender instead of national), hostility to private enterprise, glorification of the state as moral savior—tracks fascist instincts far more closely than classical liberalism does. The differences (fascism was more overtly militaristic and racist) are real, but they are differences of degree and flavor, not of fundamental category. Both are authoritarian collectivist responses to liberal modernity.

In short: fascism did not emerge from the right’s defense of tradition, property, and limited government. It emerged from the left’s rejection of them. It kept the left’s toolkit—state worship, collectivist morality, economic control, revolutionary violence—and simply swapped the international proletariat for the national community. The “far-right” label is 80 years of successful propaganda. The substance is left-wing through and through.

 

[RepentingChristian]

Should I keep going?

Your Himalayan ego, enormous self-pride, and arrogance blind you to truth. With that said, I'll see you in Heaven!

 

[Davy]

Yes, I do. I believe that God is utilizing Satan as a part of his master plan. I believe that Satan is doing EXACTLY what God created him to do. I also believe that, in the end, Satan will be pure and holy and will kneel beside us in God's Kingdom to worship our Heavenly Father.

You guys are in a debate neither one of you can win.

As written in many Bible Scriptures, Satan will be perish in the future lake of fire, and be no more. As a matter of Biblical fact, only... Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish. No flesh born person has been judged yet, which does not happen for us until Christ's Judgment Seat at His future return.

And God, if He is truly Sovereign, then can He not choose to allow Satan to work with free will also, as long as it fits His overall Salvation Plan? In Isaiah 10, God gives a parable about His using Satan, using the "the Assyrian" as a type for Satan.

 

[Davy]

Your Himalayan ego, enormous self-pride, and arrogance blind you to truth. With that said, I'll see you in Heaven!

You don't know what you are saying. I'm simply following The Word of God as written. Not my fault you're not familiar with all of it, but only with small parts.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

They do not believe. So?

It doesn't matter. When god declares something- it is fact. That Israel as a nation is mostly in unbelief was prophesied and the remedy for that given. God does not go back on His Word.

Just like if you are saved and a child of God- nothing will take that from you.

 

[RepentingChristian]

You guys are in a debate neither one of you can win.

As written in many Bible Scriptures, Satan will be perish in the future lake of fire, and be no more. As a matter of Biblical fact, only... Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish. No flesh born person has been judged yet, which does not happen for us until Christ's Judgment Seat at His future return.

And God, if He is truly Sovereign, then can He not choose to allow Satan to work with free will also, as long as it fits His overall Salvation Plan? In Isaiah 10, God gives a parable about His using Satan, using the "the Assyrian" as a type for Satan.

You're ignorant and shouldn't be spewing your false theology.

 

[Triumph1300]

 

[Aunty Jane]

Your ignorance of the truth of the gospel, is astounding. Gods Word describes your kind in the following

And listen to you!...the judge and jury of everyone here, who are all wrong because you must be right.....who are you? Or rather, who do you think you are? (1 Cor 10:12)

Who are your global brotherhood who all hold the same beliefs as you do? (1 Cor 1:10)
With whom do you meet for Christian fellowship and worship as Paul admonished? (Heb 10:24-25)
How do you know that you are not the one who has it all twisted?

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

So there you have it, the Lord Jesus revealed that you have the spirit of antichrist. I will pray for you, if you'd like to give me your name.

And you cannot read.....what does this say? What is it that all Christians must confess? That “Christ came in the flesh”....where is anyone denying that Christ came in the flesh as it clearly states in Scripture?
What it doesn’t clearly state is that Jesus is Jehovah. Not once did Jesus claim to be “God Almighty”.
If he did, please provide chapter and verse.

Look up the meaning of “theos” in a good concordance and see how many meanings it has....
Calling Jesus “theos” is the same as God calling human judges in Israel “gods” (theos) Read John 10:31-36.

Whoever denies that the Lord Jesus is the Almighty Creator God, who created everything that exists for Himself and His glory, is of the antichrist.

Hogwash....that is how you read it, but that is not what it says.
In John 1:1-3 what does it actually say?....

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (KJV)

Things to note....What “beginning” is this? Since the eternal God had no beginning, so what is this saying?

In Greek we see something that is ignored in English, and that is use of the definite article “ho” which distinguishes “theos “ (god) from “ho theos” which is Jehovah. Only Jehovah is called “ho theos”. And if you know your Bible, you should understand why.

Correctly translated John 1:1 should read...
“In the beginning was the Word (ho logos) and the Word was with Jehovah (ho theos) and the Word was divine.” (theos)

A few verses on in John 1:18 it says “No one has seen God at any time”....but how many people saw Jesus?

Now what about the next two verses there in John 1:2-3?

Col 1:15-18 clarifies what this says....
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.”

Again what do you read? Jesus is “the image of the invisible God”...can you tell me how Jesus can be an image of his invisible God? If the invisible man stood in front of a mirror, what would he see? You cannot be the image of someone invisible, except in personality.
We see God’s qualities demonstrated in the person of Jesus Christ. “Like father, like son”.

It says that all creation came “through” the Son and “for him”.....how do you explain that? There is only one Creator, but Jesus is never once called “the Creator”....he was the ‘agency’ used by his Father to bring all things into existence, through the power of God’s spirit, to accomplish that. We know what an ‘agent’ is...one who represents someone to others and acts on their behalf. This is also Christ’s role as “mediator between God and men”.....one who facilitates communication between two estranged parties.
if he was God, we would need a mediator between him and ourselves.

The prehuman Jesus, participated in the creation of what his God and Father was going to gift to him. (Prov 8: 30-31)

As the Savior and Redeemer of the human race, he is “the head of the body” of true Christians in a world full of fakes and wannabes....he is “the beginning, the firstborn from the dead”.
Again, what “beginning is this? Who raised Christ from the dead?
“that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rom 10:9)

And the concluding part of that passage says...“that in all things He may have the preeminence”....a strange thing to say about a Supreme Deity who has always been ‘preeminent’.
So many things upon closer examination, simply don’t add up....you end up with contradictions.
God’s word does not contradict itself.

Apparently you ignore what you don’t want to see....or cannot fully comprehend what you are reading....?

I'd suggest you find a faithful teacher who can teach you the basics, before you go and make blasphemous statements. I don't have the time to teach you, but just a quick point in closing for your edification. The Lord Jesus is fully God and fully man. He has two natures, He has His divine nature and His human nature. That should be a starting ponit for you to study.

Perhaps it is you who need the right teacher...? Who taught you?

There is not one single verse in the Bible that states that Jesus was “fully God and fully man”, because that is impossible. He has had two different bodies because he was “sent” on a mission, one that he was more than willing to accomplish because of his love for the human race and his love for his Father who had been slandered by the devil.
His rescue mission is what saved us from a fate from which we could not extract ourselves.....a debt left to us by an unfaithful father (Adam) that only a sinless human could pay. If you know what the redemption laws in Israel meant, you will understand the value of the exchange....like for like.

If God is immortal, it is impossible for him to die, so only a mortal being could redeem us. A mortal being did, and was rewarded for his faithful service to his God and Father by being raised immortal....as are those chosen to rule with him. (Romans 6:3-5)

I believe it is you who has a lot to learn....

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I've come to realize there are those who crow against Zionism,Israel,Nationalism,know nothing about any such thing,just to crow and hope they tick people off.

Hell of a hobby. Pun intended.

True.
You'll notice it was a Jewish Encyclopedia? ;)

Nothing wrong with Bibical Zion !

But one could be a fake zion ? not to mention not all would be rotten eggs as the ones who cast such as that is full of delusions and deceptions.

True Christianity is Biblical Zion ! but within is a fake zion Mob. who are of this world.

Anyone who barks on against Nationalism is clearly of criminal intent ! a Tratior ! one who work to undermine the Nation in fact ! as all Nations can get along just fine if they have Grace, We do not need Communist ends to be united and dominated over by the lowest common denominator. but that day will come the Bible says ! because the Socialist ends have just about got it in the bag in that they are clearly creating a virtueless people !

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Not even partially Reggie.....your focus is clouded by worldly politics.

That is a broad brush stroke when you don’t know the God I worship. Jesus doesn’t know the god you worship if you think that God cannot save his own people.....what you miss is that God created a new “Israel” since the old one let him down too many times. (Matt 23:37-39)

Paul told us that the true “Israel” is no longer those by birth, but by adoption through faith in the Savior Jesus, maintaining all the rights of a legitimate son. (Gal 4:4-5; Rom 8:14-16)

John the Baptist reminded the Jewish leaders that lineage meant nothing in disobedience....
“When he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the place of his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Therefore produce fruit consistent with repentance. And don’t presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones! Even now the ax is ready to strike the root of the trees! Therefore, every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.” (Matt 3:7-10 HCSB)

There was the warning about who the “children of Abraham” are in the Christian Era......God can raise up a new and obedient “Israel” who will do what fleshly Israel failed to do....the axe was already at the base of the tree, so that when Israel executed their own Messiah, old Israel was abandoned, cut down, and a new “Israel” came into existence at Pentecost, with the anointing Christ’s disciples who received the Holy Spirit....these ones were adopted to replace those who never quite got the point of being obedient to their God. All of their covenants required their obedience.


Islam is not the only threat to genuine Christianity.....the whole of Christendom is a worse threat because they are the ones who profess to follow Christ....but they deny him by their works of disobedience, disunity and friendship with the world (James 4:4) just like the first century Jews did....they have a form of godliness, but fail to live up to the teachings of true Christianity. (2 Tim 3:1-5)

The people of Israel have nothing to fear in my ‘attack’, as it is written in prophesy that only a remnant of natural Israel will be saved (Rom 9:27-29)

In Eph 2:12-22 Paul explains why the Gentiles had to come into God’s arrangement because they were always in his purpose from the beginning anyway....according to Moses the promises made to Abraham were for the benefit of people of all the nations, not just Jews. (Gen 22:18; Acts 10:34-35)

Perhaps it is you who is influenced by the world that satan has created...I am coming from the Bible alone as I have no political alliances......true Christians are not meddlers in the corrupt politics of this world, but they obey Christ and are “no part” of it. (John 18:36)

If God was fighting for the Jews....who could defeat them? In ancient times, he was all they needed against the strongest army. How quickly people forget how powerful God is.
One single angel took out the entire Assyrian army of 185,000 men, in just one night. (2 Kings 19:35)
What army on earth is more powerful than one angel....?

Your only a Religious quack.

Political ignorance is stupidity !

Do I totaly Support one Political Party blindly, hell no ! I can see good and the bad in both major Partys in the Game.

The State of Israel was attacked ! get that ! What If Australia was attacked like the same ? you and anyone who supports any Islamic Mob is a total fool !

Islam intent is clearly that they will kill every one of you, that is of your Religion in fact ! If you don't believe me ? one would have to be a clown.

Why are you set out so as too attack the Jews for ?

I support worthy OT Jews. because they can easy come to Christ Jesus, it's within their grasp. the Godless so called Jews are just as lost as any other carnal clown or carnal religious dupe !

One who does not truly understand the Trinity is clearly lost ! for the crap they claim about the Trinity is total lies and totaly pathetic !
One could never truly understand the Trinity if one is carnal anyway !

One should understand what is clearly going on in regards what is truly going on in regards the State of Israel and Ukraine etc, and the peddling so called lines of the Bible is not clearly the real issue at hand, so as to be ignorant in casting such lines. regardless of the facts in reality clearly are being played.

One is better equiped understanding the foundations of Political Partys and they who hide in the shaddows pulling the strings to all such, is best to understand, the reality's of what is truly going on !

Anyone who paints a picture of ignorance of not understanding Political Partys and their string players, is a joke !

 

[Aunty Jane]

Your only a Religious quack.

You are free to think that...but just remember that the disciples of Jesus were thought to be the followers of a ‘religious quack’....someone they hated enough to want him dead. (Matt 27:24-25)

Political ignorance is stupidity !

Political ignorance is preferred to ignorance about God’s Kingdom...that is the only government I support.
Who rules this world Reggie.....(1 John 5:19) Whose Kingdom do you support?

Do I totaly Support one Political Party blindly, hell no ! I can see good and the bad in both major Partys in the Game.

The State of Israel was attacked ! get that ! What If Australia was attacked like the same ? you and anyone who supports any Islamic Mob is a total fool !

What if there was a God in heaven allowing this all to take place to test your faith in him, in a world ruled by his adversary? You takes sides with the devil when you mess with his politics....there are no “good guys” in his world....only a lesser of two evils....or haven’t you noticed?

Islam intent is clearly that they will kill every one of you, that is of your Religion in fact ! If you don't believe me ? one would have to be a clown.

Why are you set out so as too attack the Jews for ?

You really don’t get it do you? All that takes place in this world is with God’s permission and within his set parameters. Where is your god Reggie...does he not know?....does he not care? Does he need men with weapons of mass destruction to save his people?

Could there possibly be a much bigger picture here? Take the blinkers off....

I support worthy OT Jews. because they can easy come to Christ Jesus, it's within their grasp. the Godless so called Jews are just as lost as any other carnal clown or carnal religious dupe !

And what makes you think that “Jews” today cannot come to Christ? Individuals can make the necessary changes, but as a nation, Israel is part of the blood spilling world alienated from God and his Christ whom they still reject. (Isa 1:15) They abandoned God so he abandoned them....not fair?
All of the first Christians were Jews...so why did God then invite the Gentiles?

One who does not truly understand the Trinity is clearly lost ! for the crap they claim about the Trinity is total lies and totaly pathetic !
One could never truly understand the Trinity if one is carnal anyway !

O, the old “it’s a mystery” trick....there is no trinity in the Bible because Jesus never once said that he was God Almighty....please find me where he ever said that. But first, do a Greek word study on “theos” and see what that word means with regard to Jesus.

One should understand what is clearly going on in regards what is truly going on in regards the State of Israel and Ukraine etc, and the peddling so called lines of the Bible is not clearly the real issue at hand, so as to be ignorant in casting such lines. regardless of the facts in reality clearly are being played.

By concentrating on the things in the world you miss all the important spiritual things Reggie....
The Bible contains prophesy, which is history written in advance...God has told us exactly what would happen in his word...you should try reading it, especially the prophesies in Daniel being played out right before our eyes....right now...

One is better equiped understanding the foundations of Political Partys and they who hide in the shaddows pulling the strings to all such, is best to understand, the reality's of what is truly going on !

The only one who is the puppet master, is the one pulling the strings of the ones pulling the strings....
If you don’t understand that, you will never understand anything. (Eph 6:10-13)

Anyone who paints a picture of ignorance of not understanding Political Partys and their string players, is a joke !

The ones ‘painting pictures in ignorance’ are those up to their necks in the politics and conflicts of this world, taking sides....but again...who is running this show? How does it end?
The Bible tells us...what does it say Reggie?

 

[Davy]

You're ignorant and shouldn't be spewing your false theology.

You are NOT... who you try to make others believe you are. Your rhetoric proves it.

Welcome to my IGNORE LIST.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Yes, I do. I believe that God is utilizing Satan as a part of his master plan. I believe that Satan is doing EXACTLY what God created him to do. I also believe that, in the end, Satan will be pure and holy and will kneel beside us in God's Kingdom to worship our Heavenly Father.

Your Satanic theology is directly from the pits of hell. None of that rubbish is Biblical, all of it is Demonic Doctrine.

You can't find a single verse of scripture to support any of those evil statements. Show me a verse to support the idea that God created Satan to murder, lie and steal????? you can't so that proves that you are under strong Demonic delusion.

You can't find a single verse to support the evil idea that Satan will become pure. Screaming out hateful blasphemies to God, while being tormented in the lake of super hot lava does not result in any kind of purification. It only produces a perpetually deeper hatred towards God.

Nobody is interested in you private fantasies, if you can't offer any truth then it's better for you to remain silent and listen to Christians who know the truth. That way you might learn something

 

[Christian Soldier]

Oooo.... nice try at pushing propaganda against The Word of God!

Evidently you are completely ignorant of God's parable about Lucifer in Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14, where He used the flesh king of Tyrus and kings of Assyria and Pharaoh as 'types' for the devil. And by your ignorance, you reveal you don't have a clue about a previous world when Lucifer was "perfect in his ways" like God had created him. That has NEVER happened for this present world, the devil only by the time of Adam and Eve had already fallen, and was in his role as Tempter. The requires... that we understand there was a previous time, a previous world, when the devil followed God, and served as an anointed cherub that covereth, meaning his original job was to guard God's Throne.

Your not knowing about that means you have missed... a whole lot of God's Truth He gave in His Word.

So what have you been doing instead of Bible study?

There is nothing in Ezekiel 28 or Isaiah 14 to suggest that a pre Adamic world existed. You just made that rubbish up, from your deluded imagination.

You haven't presented any case to support you outrageously offensive Demonic Doctrine. Show us the verses that support your delusion.

Lucifer was created within the 6 days of creation, because nothing existed before Genesis 1 so you whole theology is based on a lie, which quickly falls apart when I shine the light of scripture on it.

You don't even know the difference between Lucifer and the Devil, you said the dumbest thing I've ever heard by claiming that "the devil followed God and served as an anointed Cherub". You won't find anything in the bible to support that rubbish.

The only thing I've missed and you got, was intensive Demonic indoctrination.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Communism as as far left as possible on the ideological spectrum because it entails government ownership of everything. Fascism is to the right of communism because it permits private ownership but, like communism, rejects free market economics in favor of a government-managed economy. The political right traditionally favor limited government and a market that is as free as possible from government control.

Here is a more detailed explanation.



Fascism is a left-wing ideology because it is fundamentally a collectivist, statist, revolutionary movement that prioritizes the group (the nation, the race, the people) over the individual, demands total state control over society and the economy, and rejects classical liberal principles of limited government and free markets. The conventional placement of fascism on the “far right” is a post-World War II political convenience that ignores its actual intellectual DNA, policy substance, and historical origins. Here is the argument, step by step.

1. It was born on the left and never left the family.

Benito Mussolini, the inventor of fascism, was not a disaffected conservative or monarchist. He was a lifelong socialist: editor of the Italian Socialist Party’s newspaper *Avanti!*, a Marxist theorist, and an internationalist who praised Lenin and the Bolshevik Revolution. When he broke with the socialists over World War I (he supported intervention; they did not), he did not swing right—he created a national version of socialism. He explicitly called fascism “the socialism of the 20th century.” The 1919 Fascist Manifesto demanded progressive taxation, an eight-hour workday, worker participation in industry management, and state seizure of unproductive land—standard left-wing fare. The only major change was replacing “international class struggle” with “national struggle.” That is a family quarrel on the left, not a migration to the right.

2. Its economics are socialist, not capitalist.

Fascism’s core economic doctrine—corporatism—is state-directed collectivism. Private property and corporations exist only at the pleasure of the state; they must serve the “national interest” as defined by the dictator. Mussolini nationalized the banks, created massive public works programs, imposed price and wage controls, and subordinated all production to central planning boards. Hitler’s regime did the same: the Nazis seized control of heavy industry, banned independent unions, created the Reichsarbeitsdienst labor service, and pursued autarky and massive deficit spending. Both systems hated laissez-faire capitalism and “bourgeois” liberalism. The right-wing tradition (classical liberalism, conservatism in the Burkean sense) defends private property and voluntary exchange. Fascism treats them as instruments of state power. That is left-wing economics with a nationalist paint job.

3. It is explicitly anti-individualist and collectivist.

The deepest cleavage in politics is not “tradition vs. change” or “nationalism vs. globalism.” It is **individualism vs. collectivism.

- Classical liberalism and conservatism (the historic “right”) start with the individual and limit state power to protect rights.

- Socialism, communism, and fascism start with the group—class, race, or nation—and subordinate the individual to it.

Fascist ideology is drenched in collectivist language: “Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state” (Mussolini). The individual has no rights except those granted by the collective. Hitler’s 25-point Nazi program (still official in 1945) demanded the “common good before individual good,” abolition of “unearned incomes,” profit-sharing, and nationalization of trusts. Sound familiar? It is the same moral grammar as Marxism, just with the in-group redefined as the Volk instead of the proletariat.

4. The Nazi name and program were not ironic.

The National Socialist German Workers’ Party did not choose that title as a marketing gimmick. Hitler, Goebbels, and the early Nazis repeatedly called themselves socialists fighting “Jewish finance capitalism.” Gregor and Otto Strasser led an explicitly anti-capitalist, pro-labor wing. The regime’s policies—universal conscription, cradle-to-grave welfare, state housing, public health campaigns, and the “Strength Through Joy” leisure program—were social-democratic in form, only racialized. After 1945, embarrassed leftists retroactively reclassified Nazis as “right-wing” to protect socialism’s brand. The historical record shows otherwise.

5. The left-right spectrum itself proves the point.

The original left-right spectrum comes from the French Revolution: the left sat with the revolutionaries who wanted to abolish the old order and centralize power in a new egalitarian state; the right defended throne, altar, and limited government. Fascism and communism were both revolutionary movements that despised the bourgeois liberal center. They competed for the same constituency—disaffected workers, intellectuals, and youth—using almost identical rhetoric about smashing capitalism and creating a new man. The only real difference was communism’s internationalism versus fascism’s hyper-nationalism. That is a quarrel *within* the revolutionary left, exactly like the Trotsky-Stalin split. Calling fascism “right-wing” because it fought communists is like calling Trotsky “right-wing” because he fought Stalin.

6. Modern policy overlap confirms it
Big-government progressivism today—central economic planning, speech codes, identity politics (now racial/gender instead of national), hostility to private enterprise, glorification of the state as moral savior—tracks fascist instincts far more closely than classical liberalism does. The differences (fascism was more overtly militaristic and racist) are real, but they are differences of degree and flavor, not of fundamental category. Both are authoritarian collectivist responses to liberal modernity.

In short: fascism did not emerge from the right’s defense of tradition, property, and limited government. It emerged from the left’s rejection of them. It kept the left’s toolkit—state worship, collectivist morality, economic control, revolutionary violence—and simply swapped the international proletariat for the national community. The “far-right” label is 80 years of successful propaganda. The substance is left-wing through and through.

The left and right wings of politics are both the result of the curse that mankind inherited from Adam fall. Man will never enjoy being governed by righteous leaders, because they don't exist. All of mankind is born pure evil, and they are even more evil by the time they get old and die, (unless God saves them, before they die).

It's foolish to believe that the any nation or state will ever find a leader who will act in their best interest. All of them act to serve their lust and hunger for money.

Here in Australia, the people keep voting in new governments, after they realise that the previous one betrayed them and lied to them the whole time. They chose a leader who sells themselves in a convincing way, but all we get is scammers who sell us out to the highest bidder.

 

[Christian Soldier]

And listen to you!...the judge and jury of everyone here, who are all wrong because you must be right.....who are you? Or rather, who do you think you are? (1 Cor 10:12)

Who are your global brotherhood who all hold the same beliefs as you do? (1 Cor 1:10)
With whom do you meet for Christian fellowship and worship as Paul admonished? (Heb 10:24-25)
How do you know that you are not the one who has it all twisted?

And you cannot read.....what does this say? What is it that all Christians must confess? That “Christ came in the flesh”....where is anyone denying that Christ came in the flesh as it clearly states in Scripture?
What it doesn’t clearly state is that Jesus is Jehovah. Not once did Jesus claim to be “God Almighty”.
If he did, please provide chapter and verse.

Look up the meaning of “theos” in a good concordance and see how many meanings it has....
Calling Jesus “theos” is the same as God calling human judges in Israel “gods” (theos) Read John 10:31-36.

Hogwash....that is how you read it, but that is not what it says.
In John 1:1-3 what does it actually say?....

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (KJV)

Things to note....What “beginning” is this? Since the eternal God had no beginning, so what is this saying?

In Greek we see something that is ignored in English, and that is use of the definite article “ho” which distinguishes “theos “ (god) from “ho theos” which is Jehovah. Only Jehovah is called “ho theos”. And if you know your Bible, you should understand why.

Correctly translated John 1:1 should read...
“In the beginning was the Word (ho logos) and the Word was with Jehovah (ho theos) and the Word was divine.” (theos)

A few verses on in John 1:18 it says “No one has seen God at any time”....but how many people saw Jesus?

Now what about the next two verses there in John 1:2-3?

Col 1:15-18 clarifies what this says....
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.”

Again what do you read? Jesus is “the image of the invisible God”...can you tell me how Jesus can be an image of his invisible God? If the invisible man stood in front of a mirror, what would he see? You cannot be the image of someone invisible, except in personality.
We see God’s qualities demonstrated in the person of Jesus Christ. “Like father, like son”.

It says that all creation came “through” the Son and “for him”.....how do you explain that? There is only one Creator, but Jesus is never once called “the Creator”....he was the ‘agency’ used by his Father to bring all things into existence, through the power of God’s spirit, to accomplish that. We know what an ‘agent’ is...one who represents someone to others and acts on their behalf. This is also Christ’s role as “mediator between God and men”.....one who facilitates communication between two estranged parties.
if he was God, we would need a mediator between him and ourselves.

The prehuman Jesus, participated in the creation of what his God and Father was going to gift to him. (Prov 8: 30-31)

As the Savior and Redeemer of the human race, he is “the head of the body” of true Christians in a world full of fakes and wannabes....he is “the beginning, the firstborn from the dead”.
Again, what “beginning is this? Who raised Christ from the dead?
“that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rom 10:9)

And the concluding part of that passage says...“that in all things He may have the preeminence”....a strange thing to say about a Supreme Deity who has always been ‘preeminent’.
So many things upon closer examination, simply don’t add up....you end up with contradictions.
God’s word does not contradict itself.

Apparently you ignore what you don’t want to see....or cannot fully comprehend what you are reading....?

Perhaps it is you who need the right teacher...? Who taught you?

There is not one single verse in the Bible that states that Jesus was “fully God and fully man”, because that is impossible. He has had two different bodies because he was “sent” on a mission, one that he was more than willing to accomplish because of his love for the human race and his love for his Father who had been slandered by the devil.
His rescue mission is what saved us from a fate from which we could not extract ourselves.....a debt left to us by an unfaithful father (Adam) that only a sinless human could pay. If you know what the redemption laws in Israel meant, you will understand the value of the exchange....like for like.

If God is immortal, it is impossible for him to die, so only a mortal being could redeem us. A mortal being did, and was rewarded for his faithful service to his God and Father by being raised immortal....as are those chosen to rule with him. (Romans 6:3-5)

I believe it is you who has a lot to learn....

OK, now I know why your theology is so twisted and false. You're relying on the perverted Greek language translation, to interpret the true Hebrew Scriptures. This is a common problem for those of you who attempt to mix the languages, the result is confusion and delusion.

The Lord Jesus is Jehovah God, He said it Himself so you obviously don't believe in the true God because your Greek philosophers have poisoned and polluted your mind with Demonic Doctrines. Lets see you make God a liar again with the following scriptures.

Jesus is recognized as Jehovah God (Yahweh/YHWH) based on the doctrine of the Trinity, which holds that all three persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—share the same divine nature and are equally Jehovah. The New Testament authors apply Old Testament passages regarding Jehovah directly to Jesus.

Jesus claims the name YHWH (I AM) used in Exodus 3:14. By saying "I AM" instead of "I was," he claims eternal self-existence, not just pre-existence. The immediate reaction of the listeners attempting to stone him confirms they understood this as a claim to be Jehovah.

Romans 10:13 “For 'whoever calls on the name of the Lord [Jehovah] shall be saved.'”
Paul is quoting Joel 2:32, where "LORD" is the Tetragrammaton (YHWH). Paul applies this directly to Jesus in the preceding verses (Rom 10:9-10). Thus, calling on Jesus is calling on Jehovah.

Philippians 2:10-11 “that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow... and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord...”
This is a direct application of Isaiah 45:23, where Jehovah states: “To Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath.” Paul sees this prophecy fulfilled in Jesus.

Revelation 22:13 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

Let me enlighten you as to the meaning of "the beginning" it means eternity before creation. Now how simple was that and you've been struggling with this simple equation all your life. How sad.

I'm not going to spend any more precious time, trying to teach you unless I see evidence that you are ready to embrace the truth of the gospel. All I have seen so far is you making God a liar and that is extremely blasphemous and sinful.

 

[RepentingChristian]

You don't know what you are saying. I'm simply following The Word of God as written. Not my fault you're not familiar with all of it, but only with small parts.

Your Satanic theology is directly from the pits of hell. None of that rubbish is Biblical, all of it is Demonic Doctrine.

You can't find a single verse of scripture to support any of those evil statements. Show me a verse to support the idea that God created Satan to murder, lie and steal????? you can't so that proves that you are under strong Demonic delusion.

You can't find a single verse to support the evil idea that Satan will become pure. Screaming out hateful blasphemies to God, while being tormented in the lake of super hot lava does not result in any kind of purification. It only produces a perpetually deeper hatred towards God.

Nobody is interested in you private fantasies, if you can't offer any truth then it's better for you to remain silent and listen to Christians who know the truth. That way you might learn something

I could educate you but your monolithic ego is far too large to learn anything. Good riddance.