WHO COULD POSSIBLY BE AMONG THE 144,000

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
6,821
1,175
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
[James 1:18 KJV] "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."........James said WE should be a kind of firstfruits. James means they weren't literal fruit, but a type, a kind of firstfruits. Who are we? I think James, the apostles and the believing remnant of Israel, the Jerusalem kingdom church.
[Revelation 14:1 KJV] "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads."
[Revelation 14:4 KJV] "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."......... Who could be in consideration to be included in the 144,000? A portion of the believing remnant of Israel could well be part of the 144000, as well as the twelve apostles.[Mark 16:15 KJV] "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."..........The twelve apostles didn't finish the Mark 16 command. I think the twelve could be raised, not resurrected, to be part of 144,000.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LoveYeshua

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
15,579
6,968
113
www.FinishingTheMystery.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
[James 1:18 KJV] "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."........James said WE should be a kind of firstfruits. James means they weren't literal fruit, but a type, a kind of firstfruits. Who are we? I think James, the apostles and the believing remnant of Israel, the Jerusalem kingdom church.
[Revelation 14:1 KJV] "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads."
[Revelation 14:4 KJV] "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."......... Who could be in consideration to be included in the 144,000? A portion of the believing remnant of Israel could well be part of the 144000, as well as the twelve apostles.[Mark 16:15 KJV] "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."..........The twelve apostles didn't finish the Mark 16 command. I think the twelve could be raised, not resurrected, to be part of 144,000.
The "we" refers to those born again of the spirit of God: the "living" made alive "in Christ", AKA the "church."

"The 144 thousand" refers to "all" who are saved: In scripture, "thousand" is often synonymous with "all." So is "ten", ten referring to the immediate "all" and thousand referring to the greater "all" of all time. 144 refers to those "chosen." In other words: All who are chosen.
 

LoveYeshua

Eagle
Staff member
Sep 25, 2024
1,855
1,101
113
Quebec
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
[James 1:18 KJV] "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."........James said WE should be a kind of firstfruits. James means they weren't literal fruit, but a type, a kind of firstfruits. Who are we? I think James, the apostles and the believing remnant of Israel, the Jerusalem kingdom church.
[Revelation 14:1 KJV] "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads."
[Revelation 14:4 KJV] "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."......... Who could be in consideration to be included in the 144,000? A portion of the believing remnant of Israel could well be part of the 144000, as well as the twelve apostles.[Mark 16:15 KJV] "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."..........The twelve apostles didn't finish the Mark 16 command. I think the twelve could be raised, not resurrected, to be part of 144,000.
Doug, this is a genuinely interesting question and you raise some thoughtful points worth engaging with. But let us go directly to what Scripture actually says about the 144,000 rather than building speculation on top of speculation.

What Scripture Actually Says

The 144,000 appear twice in Revelation. First in Revelation 7 and then again in Revelation 14. And the first appearance is the most specific and the most detailed:

And I heard the number of them which were sealed and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. (Revelation 7:4-5 KJV)

And it continues listing all twelve tribes by name with exactly 12,000 from each tribe. Twelve tribes. Twelve thousand each. One hundred and forty four thousand total.

Scripture is extraordinarily specific here. These are not a symbolic group drawn from all of humanity in general. They are identified tribe by tribe from the twelve tribes of Israel. God named the tribes. God numbered them precisely. Twelve times twelve thousand. That specificity is there for a reason and it deserves to be taken seriously rather than spiritualised away into something the text does not actually say.

What Revelation 14 Adds

When the 144,000 appear again in Revelation 14 several specific characteristics are given that help identify them more fully:

These are they which were not defiled with women for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile for they are without fault before the throne of God. (Revelation 14:4-5 KJV)

They follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They are without guile. Without fault before God. And they are called firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Who Are They?

Based on what Scripture itself says rather than what human interpretation adds to it the most straightforward and honest reading is this.

The 144,000 are a specific group of Jewish believers, from the remnants of the lost tribes possibly, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel, who are sealed by God during the tribulation period as His special servants. They are set apart, preserved and commissioned for a specific purpose during the most difficult period in human history. They are the firstfruits of a great harvest of souls that comes through their testimony during the tribulation as seen immediately after their sealing in Revelation 7 where a great multitude that no one could number from every nation and tribe and people and tongue appears before the throne.

They are not the apostles. The twelve apostles are specifically identified elsewhere in Scripture as having their names written on the twelve foundations of the New Jerusalem. (Revelation 21:14). They occupy a distinct and already identified role in God's plan. The 144,000 are a separate and distinct group.

And they are not the entire Church or all believers as some traditions teach. The Church is described throughout Revelation as a great multitude which no man could number from every nation. (Revelation 7:9). The 144,000 are a specific sealed remnant from the specific tribes of Israel. The distinction between Israel and the nations is maintained throughout the book of Revelation exactly as the prophets foretold.

On the Firstfruits Connection

The person makes an interesting connection between James 1:18 and Revelation 14:4 through the word firstfruits. It is a genuine connection worth acknowledging. James does use the word firstfruits to describe believers. And the 144,000 are also called firstfruits. But the same word used in two different contexts does not necessarily mean the two groups are identical. Firstfruits simply means the first and representative portion of a larger harvest. James was describing the early Jewish believers as the firstfruits of God's redemptive harvest among humanity. The 144,000 are described as firstfruits of a specific end times harvest during the tribulation. Both are firstfruits in the sense of being the leading edge of a greater gathering. But they are not necessarily the same group.

The Most Important Point

Here is what Jesus Himself said about the end times gathering of Israel that provides the broader context for understanding the 144,000:

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:31 NKJV)

And regarding Israel specifically:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14 KJV)

The 144,000 sealed servants from the tribes of Israel appear to be the primary human instrument through which that final worldwide preaching of the Gospel takes place during the tribulation. They are sealed and protected by God precisely so that they can fulfill that mission in the most dangerous period in human history. And the fruit of their ministry is the great multitude of Revelation 7:9 from every nation that no one could number.

God sealing 144,000 from the tribes of Israel for a specific end times mission is entirely consistent with His character and His covenant faithfulness to Israel throughout Scripture. He has never forgotten His people. He has never abandoned His covenant with them. And at the end of history He will seal and commission a specific remnant from their midst for the final and greatest harvest of souls the world has ever seen.

That is what Scripture says about the 144,000. Specific. Israeli. Tribulation period. Sealed for mission. Firstfruits of the final harvest. And the living proof that God keeps every promise He has ever made.