The Relationship Between Israel and the Church

[Trekson]

Jesus identifies “the end” with His “coming” (including the passing away of the current heavens and earth) in Matthew 24:35-44. Paul does the same in 1 Corinthians 15:12-14, 21-24. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9 supports this. It shows that “the coming of the Lord” ushers in “sudden” and total “destruction” of the wicked and “they shall not escape.” 2 Thessalonians 1:7-12, 2:1-7 corroborates the fact that “the coming of our Lord” is the concluding day of time. These are irrefutable. Peter reinforces this in 2 Peter 3:3-13 telling us that the heavens shall pass away / perish with a great noise, the elements shall be ‘loosed by being set on fire’, the earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly, and the works that are within the earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly at the coming of Jesus. Premillennialists deny this by spiritualizing this truth away. The coming of Christ is the end. That is if one takes Scripture literally.

1 Cor. 15:12-14 says no such thing. There is a 1000 yrs.+ between vss. 23 and 24. The 'day of the Lord" isn't a single day, it's over a 1000 yrs. long as it includes the millennial era. 1 Thess. 5:3 doesn't say 'total", vs. 9 is speaking of eternal wrath, not end times wrath. 2 Thess 1:7-9 is speaking about Armageddon, 2:1-7 is speaking of events within the 70th week. Imo, 2 Pet. 3:7-13 is a stand-alone prophecy and is speaking about the coming of the "last day" of the day of the Lord as described in Rev. 20:9 NHNE begins w/ 20:11. The coming of Christ isn't the "end" although it can be considered the "end of the church age" which is the present dispensation we are in. Matt. 24:35-44 isn't talking about "end" of the world as Noah and his family lived to repopulate the earth. The flood ended the 2nd dispensation of "conscience" which began w/ the fall. After the flood, starting w/ Noah and his family the 3rd dispensation began which was called "human government". That dispensation ended w/ the covenant made between God and Abram, which began the dispensation of "Promise". The dispensation following that was The Law and that ended at the cross where this present dispensation of "grace" began. The next and last dispensation is called the "Kingdom" where Christ will rule and reign upon the earth.

 

[Trekson]

All mankind from the beginning is either found to be in one of two camps - saved or lost. There is no other company. There has never been any other salvation apart from that found "in Christ." Those that reject Him are found "in Adam." The elect “in Christ" in the Old Testament looked forward to Messiah by faith, the elect “in Christ" in the New Testament look back to Messiah by faith. 1 Corinthians 15:22 declares, “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”

If you are equating Jesus here w/ God then you are correct, but if you think everyone went to hell "until" Christ then that is wrong.

 

[Trekson]

The 144,000 are the firstfruits not the last fruits as you have been taught.

They are the firstfruits of what will become the "born again" nation of ethnic Israel.

 

[WPM]

1 Cor. 15:12-14 says no such thing. There is a 1000 yrs.+ between vss. 23 and 24.

It seems like you're a master at adding onto Scripture. This passage proves the coming of Christ is the end. It forbids Pretrib. Paul confirms the finality of the return of Jesus, in 1 Corinthians 15:22-24, stating, “as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming [Gr. parousia]. Then cometh the end [Gr. telos], when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

When Jesus returns it is all over. It is the end! Please note the careful correlation between the parousia and the telos. This is a truth that is found throughout the New Testament. They are synonymous with each other. There is absolutely nothing that Premillennialists can do with such a clear and climactic passage apart from deny the obvious or add unto Scripture by inserting “a thousand years” in-between the “coming” (parousia) of Christ and “the end” (telos) where it does not belong. This is the dilemma that confronts Premillennialism throughout the Word. They are fighting the sacred text.

The Greek simply reads:

Christos – Christ
en – at
autos – His
parousia – coming
eita – then
telos – the end

The coming of the Lord is shown to be the end of the world. There is no gap of time in-between the coming of Christ, the resurrection and the end. They all belong to the one final climactic overall event.

The phrase “he shall have delivered up” comes from the single Greek word paradidomi meaning surrender, yield up, intrust, or transmit. This is what happens to the kingdom when Christ comes. He surrenders it to His Father, He yields it up.

The converse phrase “he shall have put down” comes from the single Greek word katargeo meaning: bring to nought, none effect, or abolish. This is what happens to “all” existing “rule and all authority and power” when Jesus Comes. The rule of man comes to an end and now it becomes the rule of God.

 

[WPM]

The 'day of the Lord" isn't a single day, it's over a 1000 yrs. long as it includes the millennial era.

Seems like you think if you said something, then that makes it a biblical fact. That is not the way it works.

The Bible does not say what you say above. That is what you have been taught. It is a single climactic event. It is the end of the world.

Amils take 2 Peter 3:8-13 literally: “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens [Gr. ouranos] shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements [Gr. stoicheion] shall melt with fervent heat, the earth [Gr. gē] also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens [Gr. ouranos] being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements [Gr. stoicheion] shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens [Gr. ouranos] and a new earth [Gr. gē], wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

This is a wholesale climactic watertight depiction of the end of the fallen universe as we know it when Jesus comes. This couldn't be worded any clearer or more vividly. Seeing this, and recognizing this, totally negates the Premil theory. Premils therefore have to do their best to explain the literal detail away. In doing so they nail the lie that they are the real literalists when it comes to Scripture. Even they know (in their heart of hearts) that they are twisting Scripture to support their pet doctrine and discarding a fundamental hermeneutical principle they boast long and loud about.

This passage is actually talking about the purging of the physical creation of all the result of the Fall in order to introduce a new perfect eternal arrangement. You have to ignore that in order to sustain Premil. This is a classic example eisegesis.

The bondage of corruption is going to be removed from creation when He appears (Romans 8:19-23 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-55). Creation will be finally purged of wickedness, all the wicked, rebellion and all degeneration forever when Jesus comes. If the remedy for the corruption of the old heavens and earth is the introduction of a brand-new perfect heavens and earth then we are looking at an all-consummating reference to the destruction of the current globe and the existing heavens. The old arrangement that is marked by sin and insurrection is indeed destroyed by fire (as Peter said) and changed to a new glorified perfect arrangement “wherein dwelleth righteousness.” This allows no room for the continuation of unrighteousness or corruption, as Premils insists. Such is totally eliminated through the conflagration.

• The earth and the works therein are speaking about our habitable globe and everything on it
• The heavens refer to our solar system.
• The elements refer to everything in between.

Albert Barnes: “Here it would properly denote the component parts of the material world; or those which enter into its composition, and of which it is made up."

 

[WPM]

1 Thess. 5:3 doesn't say 'total", vs. 9 is speaking of eternal wrath, not end times wrath. 2 Thess 1:7-9 is speaking about Armageddon, 2:1-7 is speaking of events within the 70th week. Imo, 2 Pet. 3:7-13 is a stand-alone prophecy and is speaking about the coming of the "last day" of the day of the Lord as described in Rev. 20:9 NHNE begins w/ 20:11. The coming of Christ isn't the "end" although it can be considered the "end of the church age" which is the present dispensation we are in. Matt. 24:35-44 isn't talking about "end" of the world as Noah and his family lived to repopulate the earth. The flood ended the 2nd dispensation of "conscience" which began w/ the fall. After the flood, starting w/ Noah and his family the 3rd dispensation began which was called "human government". That dispensation ended w/ the covenant made between God and Abram, which began the dispensation of "Promise". The dispensation following that was The Law and that ended at the cross where this present dispensation of "grace" began. The next and last dispensation is called the "Kingdom" where Christ will rule and reign upon the earth.

Who told you that? 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3 confirms: “we which are alive and remain unto the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

It is very simple what this is saying to the unindoctrinated mind. This is the end. It is over. We are not into eternity. There are no survivors. There are no survivors here.

This coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant shout. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations. I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s Advent in glory that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies.

Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of His coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful that none escape. That is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for some imaginary future millennium.

 

[WPM]

2 Thess 1:7-9 is speaking about Armageddon, 2:1-7 is speaking of events within the 70th week.

The wicked are all destroyed when Jesus comes. II Thessalonians 1:4-10 records: “we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

The Holy Spirit could hardly have made this more water-tight: men either know God or they don't. To know God is eternal life (John 17:3). If humans know Him, they are rescued at His return, if they do not know Him, they are destroyed. Simple! Premils have no problems with this reality when it comes to Noah and Lot's day. They get conveniently awkward and pedantic when it comes to the second coming, because it negates their doctrine. They feel the need to diminish the scale and timing of the destruction in order to populate their alleged future millennial earth.

There are no wicked left to enter into some alleged Premillennialism future millennium. This is no temporal “destruction.” Those who are unredeemed receive their eternal reward at Christ’s return.

Christ appears at His Second Advent “in flaming fire” with the purpose of taking “vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.” There is hence absolutely no provision made for unbelievers surviving this all-consummating event. The destruction of the total wicked comes from the actual appearance of Christ at the time of the second coming. Expressly, it is “the presence of the Lord” and “the glory of his power” that causes the destruction of the wicked at the end. It is clearly not a thousand years after the Lord’s appearing as the Premillennialist would try and argue. Neither is there any exceptions, no allowance is made for natural Israel or for the so-called ‘sheep nations’, as Premillennialists try to do.

As Al Martin contends: “If the ungodly are judged at His return and if the saint enters into his full and final rest at His return, I submit to you that the breath of scriptural teaching is that the return of Christ, the glorification of the saints of God and the judgment of the ungodly ushers in eternity.”

 

[claninja]

No, but it is explained in Rev. 17. True symbolism is explained or stated in a way where what it is describing is very simple to understand or quite obvious.

Revelation 13 is a different vision than 17. The explanation for chapter 13 is in 17?

 

[WPM]

Matt. 24:35-44 isn't talking about "end" of the world as Noah and his family lived to repopulate the earth. The flood ended the 2nd dispensation of "conscience" which began w/ the fall. After the flood, starting w/ Noah and his family the 3rd dispensation began which was called "human government".

The teaching of Jesus in Matthew 24:35-44 correlates with Revelation 20:11-15 – 21:1 and proves that we are looking at the second coming: “Heaven and earth shall pass away [Gr. parerchomai], but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”

After telling us that “heaven and earth shall pass away,” Jesus immediately tells us: “of that day and hour knoweth no man.” This final day that is approaching is coming unexpectedly. This fits in with the “thief in the night” scenario found elsewhere in Scripture. It would seem to confirm that the day that Christ returns is the day when the current corrupt natural order (both the creature and creation) is gloriously changed. The wicked and all corruption are destroyed when Jesus comes. The Lord here identifies the passing away of “heaven and earth” with “the coming of the Son of man.”

Christ describes this day as an unanticipated day for many – one that will find many unprepared. For those who are playing at religion they will be caught on. They will face the same punishment as the “hypocrite” when He comes: “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” The wicked are an all-inclusive group; they include every Christ-rejecter – from the religious professors to the outright profane hypocrites. They will all be caught in the destruction when they are left behind and the “heaven and earth ... pass away.”

 

[Trekson]

It seems like you're a master at adding onto Scripture. This passage proves the coming of Christ is the end. It forbids Pretrib. Paul confirms the finality of the return of Jesus, in 1 Corinthians 15:22-24, stating, “as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming [Gr. parousia]. Then cometh the end [Gr. telos], when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

When Jesus returns it is all over. It is the end! Please note the careful correlation between the parousia and the telos. This is a truth that is found throughout the New Testament. They are synonymous with each other. There is absolutely nothing that Premillennialists can do with such a clear and climactic passage apart from deny the obvious or add unto Scripture by inserting “a thousand years” in-between the “coming” (parousia) of Christ and “the end” (telos) where it does not belong. This is the dilemma that confronts Premillennialism throughout the Word. They are fighting the sacred text.

The Greek simply reads:

Christos – Christ
en – at
autos – His
parousia – coming
eita – then
telos – the end

The coming of the Lord is shown to be the end of the world. There is no gap of time in-between the coming of Christ, the resurrection and the end. They all belong to the one final climactic overall event.

The phrase “he shall have delivered up” comes from the single Greek word paradidomi meaning surrender, yield up, intrust, or transmit. This is what happens to the kingdom when Christ comes. He surrenders it to His Father, He yields it up.

The converse phrase “he shall have put down” comes from the single Greek word katargeo meaning: bring to nought, none effect, or abolish. This is what happens to “all” existing “rule and all authority and power” when Jesus Comes. The rule of man comes to an end and now it becomes the rule of God.

This isn't the only place that happens. There is a 1000 yrs. between Dan. 12: 2a & 2b as well John 5:28-29. It's like trying to deny there is a gap between the 69th week and the 70th week. There are way to many millennial prophecies to deny it's existence.

 

[Trekson]

Seems like you think if you said something, then that makes it a biblical fact. That is not the way it works.

The Bible does not say what you say above. That is what you have been taught. It is a single climactic event. It is the end of the world.

Amils take 2 Peter 3:8-13 literally: “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens [Gr. ouranos] shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements [Gr. stoicheion] shall melt with fervent heat, the earth [Gr. gē] also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens [Gr. ouranos] being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements [Gr. stoicheion] shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens [Gr. ouranos] and a new earth [Gr. gē], wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

This is a wholesale climactic watertight depiction of the end of the fallen universe as we know it when Jesus comes. This couldn't be worded any clearer or more vividly. Seeing this, and recognizing this, totally negates the Premil theory. Premils therefore have to do their best to explain the literal detail away. In doing so they nail the lie that they are the real literalists when it comes to Scripture. Even they know (in their heart of hearts) that they are twisting Scripture to support their pet doctrine and discarding a fundamental hermeneutical principle they boast long and loud about.

This passage is actually talking about the purging of the physical creation of all the result of the Fall in order to introduce a new perfect eternal arrangement. You have to ignore that in order to sustain Premil. This is a classic example eisegesis.

The bondage of corruption is going to be removed from creation when He appears (Romans 8:19-23 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-55). Creation will be finally purged of wickedness, all the wicked, rebellion and all degeneration forever when Jesus comes. If the remedy for the corruption of the old heavens and earth is the introduction of a brand-new perfect heavens and earth then we are looking at an all-consummating reference to the destruction of the current globe and the existing heavens. The old arrangement that is marked by sin and insurrection is indeed destroyed by fire (as Peter said) and changed to a new glorified perfect arrangement “wherein dwelleth righteousness.” This allows no room for the continuation of unrighteousness or corruption, as Premils insists. Such is totally eliminated through the conflagration.

• The earth and the works therein are speaking about our habitable globe and everything on it
• The heavens refer to our solar system.
• The elements refer to everything in between.

Albert Barnes: “Here it would properly denote the component parts of the material world; or those which enter into its composition, and of which it is made up."

It's a matter of rightly dividing the word, some prophecies speak of his first advent, some about the 2nd, some about the millennial era and some about the era after the millennium. One shouldn't just pick one and reject the others. If you read two prophecies and they seem to contradict each other we have two choices, blame God for writing it wrong, or consider that our understanding may not be as cut and dried as we think they are. Personally, I go w/ the 2nd one and try and find out why.

 

[Trekson]

Wo told you that? 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3 confirms: “we which are alive and remain unto the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

It is very simple what this is saying to the unindoctrinated mind. This is the end. It is over. We are not into eternity. There are no survivors. There are no survivors here.

This coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant shout. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations. I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s Advent in glory that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies.

Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of His coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful that none escape. That is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for some imaginary future millennium.

1 Thess. 4: 15-5:3 is confirming the rapture as spoken by Christ in Matt. 24:29-31. There are all kinds of destruction throughout the 70th week and Rev. divides them up quite nicely so they should be easy to understand. Yes, most won't escape the destruction and die, but there will be survivors. It seems like you're looking for a "big bang" that destroys the world and it will happen, just not in your timing, but God's.

 

[Trekson]

The wicked are all destroyed when Jesus comes. II Thessalonians 1:4-10 records: “we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

The Holy Spirit could hardly have made this more water-tight: men either know God or they don't. To know God is eternal life (John 17:3). If humans know Him, they are rescued at His return, if they do not know Him, they are destroyed. Simple! Premils have no problems with this reality when it comes to Noah and Lot's day. They get conveniently awkward and pedantic when it comes to the second coming, because it negates their doctrine. They feel the need to diminish the scale and timing of the destruction in order to populate their alleged future millennial earth.

There are no wicked left to enter into some alleged Premillennialism future millennium. This is no temporal “destruction.” Those who are unredeemed receive their eternal reward at Christ’s return.

Christ appears at His Second Advent “in flaming fire” with the purpose of taking “vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.” There is hence absolutely no provision made for unbelievers surviving this all-consummating event. The destruction of the total wicked comes from the actual appearance of Christ at the time of the second coming. Expressly, it is “the presence of the Lord” and “the glory of his power” that causes the destruction of the wicked at the end. It is clearly not a thousand years after the Lord’s appearing as the Premillennialist would try and argue. Neither is there any exceptions, no allowance is made for natural Israel or for the so-called ‘sheep nations’, as Premillennialists try to do.

As Al Martin contends: “If the ungodly are judged at His return and if the saint enters into his full and final rest at His return, I submit to you that the breath of scriptural teaching is that the return of Christ, the glorification of the saints of God and the judgment of the ungodly ushers in eternity.”

2 Thess. 1:4-10 affirms the rapture, yet again and many will die, over 3/4 of the earth's population according to prophecy. I agree no wicked will enter the millennial era, they will either all have died or were one of the goats at the sheep and goat judgment. Christ isn't in flaming fire, his judgment is. There absolutely is room for the millennial era some folks just can't figure out how.

 

[Trekson]

Revelation 13 is a different vision than 17. The explanation for chapter 13 is in 17?

Yes, Rev. 13:1 is explained in Rev. 17:7-13. The foundation of this prophecy is based on Dan. 7. You can also see this where Rev. 1:12, 16 is explained in vs. 20.

 

[Trekson]

The teaching of Jesus in Matthew 24:35-44 correlates with Revelation 20:11-15 – 21:1 and proves that we are looking at the second coming: “Heaven and earth shall pass away [Gr. parerchomai], but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”

After telling us that “heaven and earth shall pass away,” Jesus immediately tells us: “of that day and hour knoweth no man.” This final day that is approaching is coming unexpectedly. This fits in with the “thief in the night” scenario found elsewhere in Scripture. It would seem to confirm that the day that Christ returns is the day when the current corrupt natural order (both the creature and creation) is gloriously changed. The wicked and all corruption are destroyed when Jesus comes. The Lord here identifies the passing away of “heaven and earth” with “the coming of the Son of man.”

Christ describes this day as an unanticipated day for many – one that will find many unprepared. For those who are playing at religion they will be caught on. They will face the same punishment as the “hypocrite” when He comes: “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” The wicked are an all-inclusive group; they include every Christ-rejecter – from the religious professors to the outright profane hypocrites. They will all be caught in the destruction when they are left behind and the “heaven and earth ... pass away.”

Sorry, but you're reading it wrong it should read like, heaven and earth can pass away but my words never will. It's kind of like a boast about how strong his words really are. It's "not" giving a sequence of events.

 

[WPM]

This isn't the only place that happens. There is a 1000 yrs. between Dan. 12: 2a & 2b as well John 5:28-29. It's like trying to deny there is a gap between the 69th week and the 70th week. There are way to many millennial prophecies to deny it's existence.

LOL. You make Scripture say what you want. You are twisting the inspired text. There is no 1000 years in the text You add it in text after text. You have to. That is because Premil is a non-corroborative theory.

Where is the gap in Dan 9? In your imagination. Again. You force it into the text. This is a classic example of manipulating Scripture to fit your doctrine. Clearly, both the method and the doctrine are wrong, thus the conclusion is wrong. William E Cox says in his book Biblical Studies in Final Things: “the futurist arbitrarily places a gap between the sixty-nine and seventieth weeks of Daniels’ prophecy. He does this without one verse of Scripture or one iota of historical data to back up his argument.”

History shows that the 490 years were linear, congruent and sequential. Those of us that take 490 years to mean exactly that do not have to prove that it is harmonious; we just have to accept what it states. We take it literally (1) because it happened literally, (2) there is no command to decapitate it and project it into the unknown. Seven multiplied by seventy comes to 490 cohesive unitary years, not 2,500 broken up years and counting. The clincher is: there is no gap mentioned in the prophecy so there is no need or warrant to insert one in there.

Let’s use an illustration. If you were directed to go to the next state and told and told it was exactly a 490-mile journey (right down to the very yard). You were told that in-between the starting point and your destination you would pass two important landmarks, the first after 49 miles, which was accurate to the very yard. The next was a further 434 miles ahead (bringing your journey to 483 miles in total), which also occurred right down to the very yard. The journey's end would be a final 7 miles down the road from your second landmark, making your total journey 490 miles. Exactly half way between 483 miles and 490 (486 ½ miles) you would witness a monumental landmark that would surpass anything you have ever seen. How would you then feel if you were told when you hit the second landmark that your final location was still a possible 2,000+ miles down the road with NO exact finishing point? Such an idea would be totally unthinkable in the natural, but unprecedented in God's economy. God always fulfils His promises.

 

[WPM]

Sorry, but you're reading it wrong it should read like, heaven and earth can pass away but my words never will. It's kind of like a boast about how strong his words really are. It's "not" giving a sequence of events.

Your enemy is the words of Christ. It forbids your error.

 

[Zao is life]

In the last sentence"thy seed" in this case is plural and is speaking of Israel. God knows the dna of every person born and the 144,000 will consist of 12,000 from each tribe.

The seeds is said in the context of God telling Abraham that he would be the father of hamon goyim (many Gentile nations).

 

[WPM]

2 Thess. 1:4-10 affirms the rapture, yet again and many will die, over 3/4 of the earth's population according to prophecy. I agree no wicked will enter the millennial era, they will either all have died or were one of the goats at the sheep and goat judgment. Christ isn't in flaming fire, his judgment is. There absolutely is room for the millennial era some folks just can't figure out how.

LOL. More adding unto Scripture. You force the nonsense you have been taught into the text. You cannot let the Bible speak for itself. When i show one text forbids your error you jump to another. It is impossible to get you to stay on topic.

 

[WPM]

1 Thess. 4: 15-5:3 is confirming the rapture as spoken by Christ in Matt. 24:29-31. There are all kinds of destruction throughout the 70th week and Rev. divides them up quite nicely so they should be easy to understand. Yes, most won't escape the destruction and die, but there will be survivors. It seems like you're looking for a "big bang" that destroys the world and it will happen, just not in your timing, but God's.

This is more proof that Premils do not take the Bible literal. They spiritualize repeated and explicit truth away. You again ignore the wording of the text that negates your taught theology.