Perhaps.
But we would probably have to water down both terms to make them at all compatible.
Otherwise, it seems to me that they cancel each other out.
Or if kept together create a bipolar situation.
Is God Magnanimous? - (as opposed to tyrannical)
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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But we would probably have to water down both terms to make them at all compatible.
Otherwise, it seems to me that they cancel each other out.
Or if kept together create a bipolar situation.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
"God does not throw dice" -Einstein
"God is quite a gambler. The universe is like a giant casino with dice being rolled, or wheels being spun, on every occasion.” -Hawking
Perhaps God is magnanimous or not, according to what He knows about the person/people. @marks had given an example on a prior page of a career criminal with dozens of arrests setting someone on fire on a train. The judges had been magnanimous. They shouldn't have been.
Likewise, perhaps God is less magnanimous with regards to the Amalekites and Canaanites of the world, because that is simply the correct judgment.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
If you apply them both to a single group, they aren't compatible.
But my idea from the beginning of this was that God is tribal. He deals with different group in different ways.
"Jacob have I loved, but Esau I hated." (Malachi 1, Romans 9)
Sorry, whoever said it, Bohr I think, was right. God usually allows randomness where we are concerned.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
I am closer to siding with Einstein. Effects follow causes. Just because humanity doesn't have the intellectual bandwidth to process all the simultaneous causes that result in certain outcomes doesn't mean they aren't there
When they say dice, they mean God allows random events. You have proven my point.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
soberxp
Well-Known Member
Amalekites and Canaanites in the Bible, one must consider the historical context and God's overall plan of redemption. This seemingly "violent" action was not God's nature but a manifestation of His role as the divine Judge, encompassing **judgment against extreme evil, protection of His redemptive plan, and fulfillment of His promises**.
### Key Biblical Passages
* **Deuteronomy 7:1-2, 5**: God commands Israel to completely destroy the seven nations in Canaan and tear down their idols.
* **Deuteronomy 20:16-18**: God reiterates the command to completely destroy the Canaanites to prevent Israel from learning their "detestable practices".
* **Exodus 17:14, 16**: After the Amalekites' unprovoked attack, God declares war "against Amalek from generation to generation".
* **Deuteronomy 25:17-19**: God commands Israel to "blot out the name of Amalek from under heaven" for attacking the weak and weary.
* **1 Samuel 15:2-3**: God commands Saul: "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys".
* **Leviticus 18:3, 24-25**: Describes the abominations of the Canaanites, including child sacrifice, stating, "the land became defiled".
* **Genesis 15:16**: God tells Abraham his descendants will return, "for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure," showing God gave them over 400 years to repent.
### Reasons for the "Violent" Judgment
1. **A Righteous Judgment Against Extreme Evil**: The Canaanites' sins included temple prostitution, incest, and child sacrifice. The Amalekites' history was one of unprovoked attacks and a persistent, murderous agenda against God's people.
2. **A Merciful Protection of the Redemptive Plan**: God's plan to send a Savior (Messiah) required a pure nation. The Canaanites' corrupting influence had to be removed to prevent Israel from being polluted and to safeguard the promise of redemption through Abraham's descendants.
3. **A Fulfillment of God's Promises**: God had promised Abraham the land of Canaan for his descendants, and had declared perpetual war against Amalek. The judgment was not sudden anger but the faithful fulfillment of these promises.
### Deeper Understanding
* **"Yahweh War"**: This was God's holy war, with Israel as His instrument of judgment, not aggressive conquest.
* **"Herem" (Devotion to Destruction)**: The Hebrew term "**חֵרֶם**" (Herem) involved devoting the spoils of war completely to God. It was both a judgment on sin and an act of worship, emphasizing that nothing condemned by God could be kept for personal gain.
* **Ancient Context and Hyperbole**: Archaeological evidence suggests many "cities" were military outposts, not civilian centers. The lists of "men, women, and children" were conventional phrasing, and the command was likely executed as a military action, not a genocide of non-combatants.
### Conclusion
God's judgment on the Amalekites and Canaanites was a righteous act by the divine Judge against a profoundly corrupt civilization, fundamentally to protect His plan of salvation. This reveals God's holiness and justice. The "severity" in the Old Testament and the "love" in the New Testament, revealed through Jesus Christ, together form God's complete and unchanging character. Within the broader redemptive history, these commands also prefigure God's ultimate judgment against all evil.
Has it come to this?
"God's complete and unchanging character." defined as "The "severity" in the Old Testament and the "love" in the New Testament"?
Isn't that a radical change as stated?
And... "God's ultimate judgment against all evil."?
No one asked for this. This arrangement is tyrannical at best. Not loving at all.
Except for those He predestined to life. But only as a final outcome.
Not much comfort knowing your loved ones didn't make the cut.
The only reason to prefer that sort of life is because it is better than the alternative.
Does the threat ever go away?
All this to say that I think Christianity in general has the wrong idea about God.
The terms magnanimous and tyrannical are antithetical. It's one or the other.
If God is love, He is not a tyrant. If God is unchangeable, He is not a tyrant.
soberxp
Well-Known Member
So, as a father, do you possess both strictness and kindness?
This is why marriage exists.not for sex.
For us to learning something from the character of father.
We will see if you're brave enough to call God a TYRANT to His face on Judgment Day.
II Kings 17 They didn't fear the Lord so He sent lions to kill them!
Watch out for lions.
It is you, not I, that is describing God as a tyrant.
I say that God is magnanimous. You say He's not.
Quote me!
You will soon learn:
Hebrews 10:31
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
You won't be able to hide behind your computer! Israel is Home. Your time is almost up.
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