To understand Christianity, you must understand Judaism

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Angelina

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I will save you the trouble.
They do not like discussions about the Trinity on this site.
They will just shut it down.

Grailhunter’s Corner
Then why did you create this thread? The Trinity is a closed-handed issue on CyB, which you already know. We have no issues with discussing the Trinity. What we have a problem with is members who are not Trinitarians still arguing against it in a Trinitarian-believing forum.
 
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Grailhunter

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Then why did you create this thread? The Trinity is a closed-handed issue on CyB, which you already know. We have no issues with discussing the Trinity. What we have a problem with is members who are not Trinitarians still arguing against it in a Trinitarian-believing forum.
Dear,
Read the opening statement, the Trinity is only mentioned.
Problem with members that are not Trinitarians.....???
Yet you put up with Jehovah's Witnesses????
I am an educated Theologian and I do not like false beliefs even if I like the people that believe them.
What am I supposed to do as Theologian tell people not to believe in the scriptures, false beliefs are better and more entertaining. The truth is better.
LOL I am not an Apostle but I take their lead....they knew the truth would get them in trouble.
 
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Luther7

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I was traveling when you made your Original Post, so did not comment. Now, after first reading your OP, my first comment is following post #17.

Christianity and Judaism are indeed diametrically opposed to one another, as were the Jews to Jesus, and vice versa.

But first--DO NOT SPECULATE. Do you not know that this is the way of the serpent, who caused speculation, rebellion, and sin to begin, saying, "Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden?” It is for this reason that we are told to be "silent" in the church, with the only exception being not us "speaking, but the Holy Spirit"--which requires our being silent.

As for the OP, men go on and on in their speculative babbling, while the issue is easily stated--and has been stated and written already--in few words. I will paraphrase...and if you do not recognize the words, you are not ready to comment, keep ready the scriptures:

Judaism is the "foundation" that Christianity is built upon. Meaning Judaism was and is an incomplete word from God, in fact, elementary. But indeed opposing what was to come after, beginning with Christ--because, as it was explained and written, "the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." That is the opposition Which is a much bigger matter than Judaism vs. Christianity. Even so, it was given to Israel to know and understand that their part was only part, by Isaiah, saying, "the word of the Lord was to them, “Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little”--which did not stop or "return void" when they crucified their Messiah sent to them.
Israel was simply the first nation and people to become what they speculated, by their own measure. For this reason Jesus--a Jew of that "light unto the gentiles"--preached, “take heed that the light which is in you is not darkness.” But who even among Christians, even now, will actually "be silent in church?"
It is utter confusion calling the religion of the Old Testament" judaism", and here's why:

The descendants of Abraham either followed the law of God and patiently waited for their Messiah, or they became devil worshippers and crucified their Messiah.

Jews that believed in their Messiah became Christians. Those who did not created a new religion called judaism, which holds the anti- Christ talmud as it's main authority.
 

ScottA

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It is utter confusion calling the religion of the Old Testament" judaism", and here's why:

The descendants of Abraham either followed the law of God and patiently waited for their Messiah, or they became devil worshippers and crucified their Messiah.

Jews that believed in their Messiah became Christians. Those who did not created a new religion called judaism, which holds the anti- Christ talmud as it's main authority.
Yes, I understand--I would have just called the Israelites of Jesus' time Israel, if not for the reference to Jesus being a Jew.
 

MonoBiblical

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Then why did you create this thread? The Trinity is a closed-handed issue on CyB, which you already know. We have no issues with discussing the Trinity. What we have a problem with is members who are not Trinitarians still arguing against it in a Trinitarian-believing forum.
I think you actually have problems with the deprecation of the doctrine. Also, there may be a lack of respect, but they do it in the "orthodox" forums.
 

Grailhunter

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It is utter confusion calling the religion of the Old Testament" judaism", and here's why:

The descendants of Abraham either followed the law of God and patiently waited for their Messiah, or they became devil worshippers and crucified their Messiah.

Jews that believed in their Messiah became Christians. Those who did not created a new religion called judaism, which holds the anti- Christ talmud as it's main authority.

Judaism definitely referres to the Jewish religion of the Old Testament as well as modern Jews.
And the term Jews comes from the Israelites of Judah.
But terms have a tendency to be coined after the fact.
For examples the words Christian was coined around 44 AD and Pagan and Judaism were coined in the Middle ages.
Terms--- some call the people of the Old Testament Hebrews.....after a point the scriptures referred to them as Israelites. The New Testament refers to them a Jews.
All of them and us sin but the term Jew in no way refers to them being bad, it is just a term associated with beliefs
 
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Grailhunter

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I was too hasty. Judaism in NT terms is law enforcement. Paul was of both Judah and Benjamin. Judah ruled Jerusalem and a chunk of Israel at the time. The NT is about Israel being rescued, not so much Judah being rescued.

By the time of the New Testament there is not much difference.
 

Grailhunter

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The Revelation to John has all 12 tribes in it.

But the storyline of the New Testament does not include the 12 tribes.
It is not like Yeshua introduced the 12 Apostles to the 12 tribes and they baptized them into Christianity.
 

MonoBiblical

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But the storyline of the New Testament does not include the 12 tribes.
It is not like Yeshua introduced the 12 Apostles to the 12 tribes and they baptized them into Christianity.
Yes, it is. All 12 tribes have redeemed in them.

[Rev 7:4-8 KJV] 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand. 6 Of the tribe of Aser [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses [were] sealed twelve thousand. 7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand. 8 Of the tribe of Zabulon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.
 

Grailhunter

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Yes, it is. All 12 tribes have redeemed in them.

[Rev 7:4-8 KJV] 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand. 6 Of the tribe of Aser [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses [were] sealed twelve thousand. 7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand. 8 Of the tribe of Zabulon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.

I know the verse....
But before Revelation.....How do you think that pertains to the storyline of the New Testament.
 

MonoBiblical

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I know the verse....
But before Revelation.....How do you think that pertains to the storyline of the New Testament.
Israel was not just Jews. It became just Jews, after the final messiahs second coming, before the bar Kochba period.
 

Grailhunter

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Israel was not just Jews. It became just Jews, after the final messiahs second coming, before the bar Kochba period.

Jerusalem is an archeological wonder. Over the last few they have come to understand it is a civilization built on top of a civilization. Archeological digs have found layers and keep finding layers….that span 5000 years and still counting.

The earliest known inhabitants of Jerusalem were the Canaanite Jebusites, with human settlements in the area dating back before 3000 BC They show up in the story of Judges 19 with Levite and his concubine in the town of Gibeah.
The oldest known name for Jerusalem is typically reconstructed as Urušalim or Urusalim, dating back to the Middle Bronze Age and Egyptian texts around the 19th century BCE.
The first settlement was near the Gihon Spring. The city is also mentioned in Egyptian execration texts around 2000 BCE calling it "Rusalimum." By the 17th century BCE, Jerusalem had developed into a fortified city under Canaanite rule, with massive walls protecting its water system. During the Late Bronze Age, Jerusalem became a vassal of Ancient Egypt, as documented in the Amarna letters.

The city's importance grew during the Israelite period, which began around 1000 BCE when King David captured Jerusalem and made it the capital of the United Kingdom of Israel. David's son, Solomon, built the First Temple, establishing the city as a major religious center. Following the kingdom's split, Jerusalem became the capital of the Kingdom of Judah until it was captured by the Neo-Babylonian Empire in 586 BCE. The Babylonians destroyed the First Temple, leading to the Babylonian exile of the Jewish population. After the Persian conquest of Babylon in 539 BCE, Cyrus the Great allowed the Jews to return and rebuild the city and its temple, marking the start of the Second Temple period. Jerusalem fell under Hellenistic rule after the conquests of Alexander the Great in 332 BCE, leading to increasing cultural and political influence from Greece. The Hasmonean revolt in 1the 2nd century BCE briefly restored Jewish autonomy, with Jerusalem as the capital of an independent state.

In 63 BCE, Jerusalem was conquered by Pompey and became part of the Roman Empire. The city remained under Roman control until the Jewish–Roman wars, which culminated in the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE. The city was renamed Aelia Capitolina and rebuilt as a Roman colony after the Bar Kokhba revolt (132–136 CE), with Jews banned from entering the city. Jerusalem gained significance during the Byzantine period as a center of Christianity, particularly after Constantine the Great endorsed the construction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. In 638 CE, Jerusalem was conquered by the Rashidun Caliphate, and under early Islamic rule, the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque were built, solidifying its religious importance in Islam. During the Crusades, Jerusalem changed hands multiple times, being captured by the Crusaders in 1099 and recaptured by Saladin in 1187. It remained under Islamic control through the Ayyubid and Mamluk periods, until it became part of the Ottoman Empire in 1517.

Gibeah and Jerusalem
Gibeah, located just north of Jerusalem, is a significant biblical site that holds a prominent place in the history of Israel. It is associated with several key events and figures in the Old Testament, particularly during the times of the judges and the early monarchy. Gibeah is situated about five miles (8 km) north of Jerusalem, in the hilly region of Benjamin. Its strategic location made it an important settlement for the Israelites. The name “Gibeah” itself means “hill” or “mound,” reflecting its topographical characteristics. Biblical Reference: Joshua 18:28 (NKJV) states: ”Zelah, Eleph, Jebus (which is Jerusalem), Gibeah, and Kiriath (which is Hebron)—fourteen cities with their villages. This was the inheritance of the children of Benjamin according to their families.”

Britannica
Gibeah is also known for its role in the infamous story of the Levite's concubine, which led to a civil war in Israel. The horrific crime that occurred in Gibeah set off a chain of events that ultimately led to the tribe of Benjamin suffering severe losses. This incident is recorded in Judges 19–21 and is frequently cited by later biblical writers as a somber warning of unrestrained depravity. The name "Gibeah" may have applied to a district as well as to a town, since the neighboring town of Ramah is said to have been "in Gibeah."

Bible Hub
Gibeah's significance extends beyond its biblical mentions to include its role in ancient trade routes, political boundaries, and cultural exchanges that shaped the region. The city served as a backdrop for several key events in Saul's reign, including his initial anointing and subsequent military campaigns. Archaeological evidence suggests Gibeah was fortified, with structures indicating its role as a seat of power. Modern identification of Gibeah is often associated with Tell el-Ful, located near Jerusalem. Excavations have revealed fortifications and structures consistent with a city of significant size and importance during the Iron Age. While archaeological findings provide valuable insights, they serve to complement the biblical narrative, affirming the historical reality of Gibeah's role in Israel's history.
 
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Pierac

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A professor at the University of Cambridge use to teach a course called “To understand Christianity, you must understand Judaism.”
What The Hell Is Hell to a 1st century Jew... Part 1

The term Hades appears eleven times in the New Testament, where it is translated as “Hell” ten times and as “grave” once. The word derives from the Greek roots a- (“not”) and idein (“to see”), meaning “unseen” or “invisible.” Its sense closely parallels that of the Hebrew term Sheol, which literally refers to “the grave” or “the realm of the dead.” Figuratively, Sheol can denote destruction, downfall, calamity, or death within the present world, without any explicit reference to punishment or torment after death. This meaning appears consistently throughout the Old Testament, regardless of whether Sheol is rendered “Hell,” “grave,” or “pit.” The same understanding applies to Hades in the New Testament.

According to The Emphatic Diaglott, “To translate Hades by the word Hell, as is done ten times out of eleven in the New Testament, is linguistically inaccurate unless the term retains its original Saxon meaning of helan—‘to cover.’ The primitive sense of Hell as something ‘hidden’ or ‘concealed’ aligns closely with the Greek Hades and the Hebrew Sheol. The later theological connotations of Hell as a place of postmortem torment, however, differ significantly from the original meanings of these terms.”

In the Greek Septuagint—the version of the Hebrew Scriptures used in the time of Jesus—Hades is consistently used as the equivalent of Sheol. Thus, when Jesus or the apostles used Hades, it would have carried the same sense as it did in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Dr. George Campbell, a noted biblical scholar, explained that “Sheol signifies the state of the dead in general, without regard to moral character, happiness, or suffering.”


The term Tartarus occurs only once in the Bible, in 2 Peter 2:4: “For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment.” The Greek expression here is tartarōsas, derived from Tartarus. According to classical sources such as Anthon’s Classical Dictionary, Tartarus was understood in Greek mythology as a place of punishment for divine beings. In this passage, however, the angels are said to be “reserved unto judgment,” implying that their confinement is temporary and anticipatory rather than final.


The term Gehenna (The word Hell in your Bible) is derived from the Hebrew Ge Hinnom (“Valley of Hinnom”). Over time, it evolved through several linguistic forms—Chaldee Gehennom, Arabic Jahannam, and Greek Gehenna. The Valley of Hinnom (Hell) is a real geographical location on the southern boundary of Jerusalem (Joshua 15:8; 18:16). In ancient times, some Judean kings permitted the worship of the deity Molech there, a practice condemned in the Hebrew Scriptures (2 Kings 23:10; Ezekiel 23:37–39; 2 Chronicles 28:3; Leviticus 18:21; 20:2).

Later, King Josiah desecrated the site to end such practices, and it eventually became associated with refuse and impurity. Fires were kept burning there to destroy waste, giving rise to the imagery of unquenchable fire and decaying matter—“where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:48). As scholar Moses Stuart observed, “The perpetual fires and decay in the Valley of Hinnom provided the symbolic language for judgment.”

Some translators and commentators suggest that Gehenna might best have been left untranslated, as it was a known geographical and cultural reference for the audience of Jesus’ time. As Walter Balfour notes, “The Jewish listeners, familiar with the history and locality of the Valley of Hinnom, would have understood Gehenna as a reference to that place of abhorrence, not as a description of an unseen world of punishment.”


Second Temple Judaism: the controlling worldview of this POST!

Second Temple Judaism was not heaven/hell-centric. Its core framework was:

  1. Covenant, land, exile, restoration , Resurrection of the dead , The coming Kingdom of God (Messianic Age) , Age(s) of history, not timeless eternity , Judgment as vindication and correction , God’s final victory over death and evil

2. Death and the state of the dead (Sheol)

Jewish consensus (early Second Temple period)

  • Sheol = the realm of the dead , No consciousness of praise or punishment , Righteous and wicked alike go there
Sources:
  • Ecclesiastes 9:5
  • Psalm 6:5
  • Job 3:11–19
This matches : death, not torment, is the problem.

Later developments introduce differentiation after resurrection, not immediately at death.


3. Resurrection: the central hope

This is critical

By the late Second Temple period, resurrection—not heaven—became the dominant hope.

Key Jewish texts:

  • Daniel 12:2 – resurrection to life or shame
  • 2 Maccabees 7 – bodily resurrection as covenant justice
  • 4 Ezra 7 – resurrection precedes judgment
  • Josephus – Pharisees taught resurrection; Sadducees denied it
No Jewish group taught:
  • immortal souls escaping to heaven forever
  • eternal torment as the default fate
Instead:

God fixes injustice by raising the dead and restoring the righteous.

This is exactly Paul’s framework in 1 Corinthians 15....




 
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Pierac

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Part 2...

What “Gehenna” (Hell) originally meant (historical ground) to a JEW!

A. The Valley of Hinnom (Ge Hinnom)


  • A real valley south of Jerusalem
  • Associated with:
    • Child sacrifice (Jer 7:31; 19:2–6)
    • National judgment
    • Covenant curse

Jeremiah 19:6:

“It shall no more be called Topheth, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter.”

Key point:
In the Hebrew Bible, Ge Hinnom is never an afterlife location.
It is a symbol of judgment in history.



2. Transition during the Second Temple period

After the exile, Jewish thought begins to ask:

  • How does God judge after death?
  • How is injustice finally corrected?
This is where symbol becomes metaphor.

Gehenna becomes:
  • A post-mortem judgment state
  • Still tied to covenantal correction
  • Still not eternal
This transition occurs before Christianity, in Jewish apocalyptic literature.


3. Second Temple Jewish understanding of Gehenna

A. Gehenna vs the “Age to Come”


Judaism distinguished:

Concept
Meaning
This ageLife under sin and death
Age to comeResurrection + judgment
GehennaCorrective judgment within the age to come
Gehenna was subordinate to resurrection, not an alternative to it.



4. Purpose of Gehenna: purification, not annihilation

Wisdom of Solomon 11:23–24 (2nd–1st c. BC)


“You have mercy on all, because you can do all things… You overlook sins that men may repent.”

This logic governs Jewish punishment:
  • God punishes to produce repentance
  • Not to eternally sustain suffering
1 Enoch (widely read in Second Temple Judaism)

Enoch describes:
  • Places of judgment
  • Separation of souls
  • Awaiting final restoration or resurrection
Punishment is intermediate and purposeful, not endless.


5. The “12-month maximum” — where this comes from

This is not a Christian invention.

Mishnah Eduyot 2:10

“The judgment of the wicked in Gehenna is twelve months.”

This is legal tradition, not poetry.

It reflects an already-established belief:
  • Punishment is time-limited
  • Measured
  • Proportionate
The Mishnah (compiled c. 200 AD) preserves Pharisaic beliefs from the late Second Temple era.


Why 12 months?

Because:
  • Jewish mourning for the dead lasted 11 months, not 12
  • Saying someone remained in Gehenna beyond that implied extreme guilt
  • Even then, hope was often retained
This reflects cultural practice, not speculation.


6. Tosefta Sanhedrin 13 (parallel tradition)

The Tosefta expands on Mishnah material and preserves earlier oral teaching.

It affirms:
  • Gehenna exists
  • Most people leave it
  • Some are debated as remaining longer
Key: Debated, not defined.


7. Babylonian Talmud: clarification, not invention

Although compiled later (5th–6th century AD), the Talmud repeatedly states:

  • Gehenna is temporary
  • God’s mercy ultimately prevails
Example (Rosh Hashanah 17a):

“The judgment of the wicked in Gehenna lasts twelve months.”

It also says:

“The gates of Gehenna are never locked.”

That phrase alone tells you the intent:
  • Not final
  • Not absolute
  • Not eternal exclusion

8. The “exceptions” — who were debated?

Some rabbis debated whether a small group might not ascend:
  • Apostates
  • Extreme covenant betrayers
  • Those who led others into idolatry
But notice:
  1. No consensus
  2. No doctrine of eternal torment
  3. Often still described as:
    • Eventually annihilated
    • Or purified after extended correction
Judaism never settled this question dogmatically.


9. What Gehenna was NOT in Jewish thought:

Gehenna was never:

  • A place of infinite torment
  • A final destination for most humanity
  • Ruled by Satan
  • A counterpart to heaven
That model is post-biblical and post-Jewish.


10. Why Jesus’ language fits this perfectly

When Jesus warns about Gehenna:
  • His audience already believed:
    • It was real
    • It was severe
    • It was corrective
    • It was temporary
Jesus intensifies:
  • Moral urgency
  • Accountability
He does not redefine Gehenna into an eternal torture realm.

If he had:
  • The Pharisees would have objected
  • The Gospels record no such controversy
11. Why this matters theologically

If Gehenna is:
  • Temporary
  • Purifying
  • Age-related
Then:
  • “Eternal punishment” must mean age-lasting correction
  • Judgment aligns with restoration
  • God’s character remains coherent
  • Resurrection retains centrality

12. Bottom line (clear and precise) In Second Temple Judaism:
  • Gehenna = post-mortem corrective judgment
  • Duration = limited (commonly 12 months)
  • Goal = repentance and purification
  • Outcome = restoration or resurrection
  • Eternal torment = not a Jewish doctrine
His framework matches the historical record.


 
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Pierac

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Part 3

1. Every Gehenna saying of Jesus (complete list)

Jesus uses Gehenna explicitly 11 times (all in the Synoptics):

Matthew

  • Matt 5:22
  • Matt 5:29–30
  • Matt 10:28
  • Matt 18:9
  • Matt 23:15
  • Matt 23:33
Mark
  • Mark 9:43–48
Luke
  • Luke 12:5
(John never uses Gehenna once — very important)


2. Line-by-line comparison

I’ll quote the verse, then explain how a 1st-century Jew would hear it.


A. Matthew 5:22

“Whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to the Gehenna of fire.”

Jewish frame:
  • “Fire” = judgment, purification, covenant curse (Isa 1:25; Mal 3:2–3)
  • “Liable to” = subject to judgment, not doomed eternally
Meaning:

Jesus escalates moral accountability, not metaphysics.
Anger and contempt put one under corrective judgment.

Fits temporary, purifying Gehenna
Does not imply endless torment


B. Matthew 5:29–30

“If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out… better than your whole body be thrown into Gehenna.”

Jewish frame:
  • Hyperbole (common rabbinic style)
  • “Body” (sōma) = whole life/self, not immortal soul
  • “Thrown into” = exposed to judgment
Meaning:

Jesus teaches radical repentance now to avoid severe correction later.

If Gehenna were eternal:

  • Maiming would be meaningless
  • Repentance would be irrelevant
This only works if Gehenna is disciplinary.


C. Matthew 10:28

“Fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna.”

Key word: destroy (Greek: apollymi)

In Jewish usage:

  • Means ruin, loss, undoing
  • Not annihilation
  • Not eternal torment
Examples:

  • Lost sheep = apollymi (Luke 15)
  • Wineskins destroyed = unusable, not non-existent
Meaning:

God can bring total judgment of the self, beyond mere physical death.

This aligns with:

  • Resurrection
  • Judgment
  • Restoration through loss
Not with immortal souls burning forever.



D. Matthew 18:9


“Better to enter life with one eye than with two eyes be thrown into the Gehenna of fire.”

Key contrast:

  • Life vs Gehenna
  • Not heaven vs hell
“Life” = life of the age to come (zōē aiōnios)

Meaning:
  • Choose transformation now
  • Avoid corrective judgment later
Again: process, not final destiny.


E. Matthew 23:15

“You make him twice as much a son of Gehenna as yourselves.”

Jewish idiom:

“Son of X” = characterized by X

Examples:
  • Sons of the kingdom
  • Sons of light
  • Sons of disobedience
Meaning:
Pharisees are producing people destined for judgment, not eternal torment.

F. Matthew 23:33

“How are you to escape being sentenced to Gehenna?”

Important:
  • “Escape” implies possibility
  • Sentence implies measured judgment
If Gehenna were eternal:
  • Escape language makes little sense
  • Warning would be fatalistic
Jesus is issuing a prophetic warning, not declaring eternal fate.


G. Mark 9:43–48

“Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.”

This is a quote from Isaiah 66:24

In Isaiah:
  • The dead bodies are corpses
  • The scene is on earth
  • The fire consumes until finished
“Unquenchable” = cannot be stopped, not never-ending
“Worm does not die” = total decomposition, not conscious suffering

Jewish readers knew this text already.

Jesus is not redefining it.


H. Luke 12:5

“Fear Him who, after killing, has authority to cast into Gehenna.”

Key:
  • Judgment occurs after death
  • Authority, not inevitability
  • No duration specified
This fits post-mortem corrective judgment perfectly.


3. What Jesus is doing (and not doing)

Jesus is:


Affirming Gehenna’s reality
Intensifying moral seriousness
Warning of severe divine correction
Speaking in Jewish prophetic idiom

Jesus is NOT:

Defining Gehenna as eternal torture
Teaching immortal souls
Replacing resurrection with heaven/hell
Contradicting Jewish expectations

If Jesus had meant eternal torment:
  • He would have needed to explain it
  • It would have sparked major controversy
  • The Gospels would record objections
They don’t.


4. Why “eternal punishment” (Matt 25:46) doesn’t overturn this

Because:
  • Kolasis = corrective punishment (used for pruning)
  • Aiōnios = age-pertaining
  • The context is kingdom inheritance, not metaphysics
Thus:

“Age-lasting correction” vs “life of the age”

Exactly what Second Temple Jews expected.


5. Summary Table

Saying
Jewish Meaning
Later Misreading
FirePurificationTorture
DestroyRuin, lossAnnihilation
UnquenchableIrresistibleEndless
Body & soulWhole personImmortal soul
JudgmentCorrectiveRetributive
LifeResurrection lifeHeaven

Final conclusion



Jesus did not redefine Gehenna.
He used it exactly as his Jewish audience understood it—
as severe, corrective, age-limited judgment within God’s redemptive plan.


This framework:
  • Fits every Gehenna saying
  • Preserves Jewish context
  • Keeps resurrection central
  • Maintains God’s justice and mercy
Paul
 
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Part 3

1. Every Gehenna saying of Jesus (complete list)

Jesus uses Gehenna explicitly 11 times (all in the Synoptics):

Matthew

  • Matt 5:22
  • Matt 5:29–30
  • Matt 10:28
  • Matt 18:9
  • Matt 23:15
  • Matt 23:33
Mark
  • Mark 9:43–48
Luke
  • Luke 12:5
(John never uses Gehenna once — very important)



2. Line-by-line comparison

I’ll quote the verse, then explain how a 1st-century Jew would hear it.



A. Matthew 5:22

“Whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to the Gehenna of fire.”

Jewish frame:
  • “Fire” = judgment, purification, covenant curse (Isa 1:25; Mal 3:2–3)
  • “Liable to” = subject to judgment, not doomed eternally
Meaning:

Jesus escalates moral accountability, not metaphysics.
Anger and contempt put one under corrective judgment.

Fits temporary, purifying Gehenna
Does not imply endless torment



B. Matthew 5:29–30

“If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out… better than your whole body be thrown into Gehenna.”

Jewish frame:
  • Hyperbole (common rabbinic style)
  • “Body” (sōma) = whole life/self, not immortal soul
  • “Thrown into” = exposed to judgment
Meaning:

Jesus teaches radical repentance now to avoid severe correction later.

If Gehenna were eternal:

  • Maiming would be meaningless
  • Repentance would be irrelevant
This only works if Gehenna is disciplinary.



C. Matthew 10:28

“Fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna.”

Key word: destroy (Greek: apollymi)

In Jewish usage:

  • Means ruin, loss, undoing
  • Not annihilation
  • Not eternal torment
Examples:

  • Lost sheep = apollymi (Luke 15)
  • Wineskins destroyed = unusable, not non-existent
Meaning:

God can bring total judgment of the self, beyond mere physical death.

This aligns with:

  • Resurrection
  • Judgment
  • Restoration through loss
Not with immortal souls burning forever.




D. Matthew 18:9


“Better to enter life with one eye than with two eyes be thrown into the Gehenna of fire.”

Key contrast:

  • Life vs Gehenna
  • Not heaven vs hell
“Life” = life of the age to come (zōē aiōnios)

Meaning:
  • Choose transformation now
  • Avoid corrective judgment later
Again: process, not final destiny.



E. Matthew 23:15

“You make him twice as much a son of Gehenna as yourselves.”

Jewish idiom:

“Son of X” = characterized by X

Examples:
  • Sons of the kingdom
  • Sons of light
  • Sons of disobedience
Meaning:
Pharisees are producing people destined for judgment, not eternal torment.

F. Matthew 23:33

“How are you to escape being sentenced to Gehenna?”

Important:
  • “Escape” implies possibility
  • Sentence implies measured judgment
If Gehenna were eternal:
  • Escape language makes little sense
  • Warning would be fatalistic
Jesus is issuing a prophetic warning, not declaring eternal fate.



G. Mark 9:43–48

“Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.”

This is a quote from Isaiah 66:24

In Isaiah:
  • The dead bodies are corpses
  • The scene is on earth
  • The fire consumes until finished
“Unquenchable” = cannot be stopped, not never-ending
“Worm does not die” = total decomposition, not conscious suffering

Jewish readers knew this text already.

Jesus is not redefining it.



H. Luke 12:5

“Fear Him who, after killing, has authority to cast into Gehenna.”

Key:
  • Judgment occurs after death
  • Authority, not inevitability
  • No duration specified
This fits post-mortem corrective judgment perfectly.



3. What Jesus is doing (and not doing)

Jesus is:


Affirming Gehenna’s reality
Intensifying moral seriousness
Warning of severe divine correction
Speaking in Jewish prophetic idiom

Jesus is NOT:

Defining Gehenna as eternal torture
Teaching immortal souls
Replacing resurrection with heaven/hell
Contradicting Jewish expectations

If Jesus had meant eternal torment:
  • He would have needed to explain it
  • It would have sparked major controversy
  • The Gospels would record objections
They don’t.



4. Why “eternal punishment” (Matt 25:46) doesn’t overturn this

Because:
  • Kolasis = corrective punishment (used for pruning)
  • Aiōnios = age-pertaining
  • The context is kingdom inheritance, not metaphysics
Thus:

“Age-lasting correction” vs “life of the age”

Exactly what Second Temple Jews expected.



5. Summary Table

Saying
Jewish Meaning
Later Misreading
FirePurificationTorture
DestroyRuin, lossAnnihilation
UnquenchableIrresistibleEndless
Body & soulWhole personImmortal soul
JudgmentCorrectiveRetributive
LifeResurrection lifeHeaven


Final conclusion



Jesus did not redefine Gehenna.
He used it exactly as his Jewish audience understood it—
as severe, corrective, age-limited judgment within God’s redemptive plan.


This framework:
  • Fits every Gehenna saying
  • Preserves Jewish context
  • Keeps resurrection central
  • Maintains God’s justice and mercy
Paul

Good write up.
Hell is real! But…..the topic can be confusing, because of that the Jehovah's Witnesses and others try to use the confusion to deny it’s existence. And the KJV makes some mistakes with it. But Hell is real…..so let’s straighten this out. Hear are some facts….

1. Hell is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Meaning the Hebrews/Israelites were not threatened with it. The Hebrews/Israelites/Jews did not believe in Hell or the Devil and still do not today.

2. The understanding of an eternal fiery place of eternal punishment did not exist during the Old Testament period.

3. Some Christians did not understand why Hell was not in the Old Testament.

4. So they put it there with some of the older translational processes.

5. Some times they used the word Hades. Hades is a Greek word, it cannot be in a Hebrew text.... wrong time period. Hades is a Greek god that reigned over an underworld of the same name. No fire but kind of like a spiritual prison. Some equate it to Sheol but Sheol is not well defined in the Old Testament....spirit world or grave. The Hebrews/Israelites/Jews believed everyone went to Sheol.

6. Hell was new information in the New Testament so there was no word for an eternal fiery place of punishment. The word Hell comes out in the 8th century….Anglo-Saxon-German.

7. Because there was no word for Hell Yeshua and the Apostles referenced it in different ways…. explanations and examples like Gehenna. They also used the Greek word Hades and changed what it meant. This was not uncommon, some call it Christian Greek. The Greek language and culture did not have Christian terms or concepts. So Yeshua and the Apostles improvised using Greek words and modifying the meaning to describe Christian concepts.

8. Hell is real!
 
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