Is it ok for parents to use corporal punishment to discipline their children?

[ProDeo]

We live in a world where, in many nations, corporal punishment of any kind is illegal....my own country included.
Kids were taught that any kind of physical punishment was tantamount to abuse....and the UN Charter of 1988 on the International Rights of the Child, ostensibly to end forced child labor, but actually all it did was give western kids the right to report their own parents for abuse if they laid a hand on them.

Discipline is recommended in the Bible because Paul says in Hebrews 12:5-12....

“And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,and chastises every son whom he receives.”. . . For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.” (ESV)

One thing discipline is....is painful.....but the pain does not have to be physical.
Prov 1:8 says we should listen to discipline.....so it can be verbal as well.

Constant physical correction may harden a child to it, without teaching them anything. It can be seen as a power trip and the child eventually becomes a contender.

Discipline is an opportunity to teach our children something about expected standards of behaviour.....if all it does it prove that a parent is more powerful, what is the point? The child will outgrow that concept and see the parent as merely power tripping without eliciting any respect for themselves, or the behaviour they are trying to modify.
It also highlights the need for parents to be good examples themselves.....the “don’t do as I do, do as I say” camp will not be the parents of well balanced children.

In times past, discipline was administered heavy handedly, both at home and at school....the line between discipline and abuse was often crossed.....and no one was held accountable. Many of the abused went on to become abusers themselves....so we want the kind of discipline that God advocates for...or one that achieves what discipline is supposed to do....teach. Not to break a child’s spirit but to build good qualities in them.

Excellent Aunty.

On top of what I already said in this thread, I m not against using force when a child goes berserk, becomes wild, screams, not responding on words. You have to act as a parent. Hold the child, keep telling him that you love him and keep holding him till he relaxes, he usually starts crying, he apologizes, followed by hugs from both sides. No spanking needed.

 

[Armour of God]

God says it is not only fine but required. Who can argue with or overrule God?

Well there are passages in the old testament that appear to support corporal punishment. And there are passages in the new testement that appear to oppose corporal punishment.

As Christians we abide by the new testement.

 

[Armour of God]

I don’t believe you for one second. I noticed none of your rationalizations quote Scripture.

In the op I presented bible verses that appear to support corporal punishment and others that appear to oppose it.

I was leaning towards yes. But after reading what people have to say and thinking about it more deeply I changed my mind. I find the arguments for it not very convincing

If you think I'm lying then why in the op would I have said that the good old fashioned ear pull was my favourite. Makes no sense in me saying that if I actually opposed it from the start.

I dont think corporal punishment achieves anything that other forms of punishment don't already

It's not fair to accuse someone of being a liar without any evidence, only because you have a hunch or a suspicion.
That's not cool. I haven't lied. I hate liars.
I have no reason to lie to you or anyone else.

 

[quietthinker]

I don’t believe you for one second. I noticed none of your rationalizations quote Scripture.

Quoting scripture does not qualify as anything when ones paradigm is faulty. To the fact that you've noticed it , I would say, so what!
Any erudite scholar can quote and take scripture out of context to support a faulty view.

 

[Armour of God]

We live in a world where, in many nations, corporal punishment of any kind is illegal....my own country included

You know I thought the same thing but surprisingly a google search brought up this. It cites the Australian institute of family studies

Constant physical correction may harden a child to it, without teaching them anything. It can be seen as a power trip and the child eventually becomes a contender.

Discipline is an opportunity to teach our children something about expected standards of behaviour.....if all it does it prove that a parent is more powerful, what is the point? The child will outgrow that concept and see the parent as merely power tripping without eliciting any respect for themselves, or the behaviour they are trying to modify.
It also highlights the need for parents to be good examples themselves.....the “don’t do as I do, do as I say” camp will not be the parents of well balanced children.

In times past, discipline was administered heavy handedly, both at home and at school....the line between discipline and abuse was often crossed.....and no one was held accountable. Many of the abused went on to become abusers themselves....so we want the kind of discipline that God advocates for...or one that achieves what discipline is supposed to do....teach. Not to break a child’s spirit but to build good qualities in them

I agree. I don't see corporal punishment achieving anything more that other forms of punishment do

 

[dad]

Well there are passages in the old testament that appear to support corporal punishment. And there are passages in the new testement that appear to oppose corporal punishment.

As Christians we abide by the new testement.

? What passage?

 

[Armour of God]

Physical punishment used to be popular against criminals. But most societies don't do that anymore. When then should we be doing it to kids who are just still learning and very fragile.

In some sports bad athletes will miss some matches if they behave badly on the field.
We can apply that to children. If they do sports then they can miss training and a match. Same with any other hobbies. Take away their video game console of they love video games.

Another good one is the old Bart Simpson punishment. "I promise not to do such thing again". Get them to write it 500 times. If they do it again or if the behaviour is really bad then make them write it 1,000 times.

You can also just lock them in their room for a period of time. Like a prison punishment. No TV, computer, phone or video games. Get them to think about their actions. You can make them write an essay on why they did such a bad thing and how they can improve their behaviour.

In the end there will always be idiots who take corporal punishment too far and cause serious injury to a child. I don't see it being necessary as there are other forms of punishment that will achieve the same result.

 

[Armour of God]

? What passage?

I wrote them in the OP but if you missed them here they are...

Bible verses that appear to support corporal punishment

Proverbs 13:24
Whoever spares the rod hates their children,
but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.

Proverbs 22:15
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child,
but the rod of discipline will drive it far away.

Proverbs 23:13-14
Do not withhold discipline from a child;
if you punish them with the rod, they will not die.
Punish them with the rod
and save them from death.

Bible verses that appear to oppose corporal punishment

Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord

Colossians 3:21
Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.

 

[dad]

I wrote them in the OP but if you missed them here they are...

Bible verses that appear to support corporal punishment

Proverbs 13:24
Whoever spares the rod hates their children,
but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.

Proverbs 22:15
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child,
but the rod of discipline will drive it far away.

Proverbs 23:13-14
Do not withhold discipline from a child;
if you punish them with the rod, they will not die.
Punish them with the rod
and save them from death.

Bible verses that appear to oppose corporal punishment

Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord

If we love them we will discipline them. Correction is not exasperating them. It is loving them, He that loves not the child spares the rod

Colossians 3:21
Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.

As above. You could embitter them by not lovingly correcting them though. Governments and schools are wrong. Period.

 

[Armour of God]

If we love them we will discipline them. Correction is not exasperating them. It is loving them, He that loves not the child spares the rod

As above. You could embitter them by not lovingly correcting them though. Governments and schools are wrong. Period.

What does spanking them actually achieve that other forms of punishment don't?

 

[Wrangler]

In the op I presented bible verses that appear to support corporal punishment

You grant it only "appears" to support corporal punishment. Gotcha!

I find the arguments for it not very convincing

Friend, the Bible does not argue; it commands.

You're repeating yourself and it's obvious you started this thread to argue against corporal punishment. The very question of the thread reveals this; is it OK. That which is commanded is OK.

Imagine a thread asking any other negation; if NOT doing anything else is OK, like not forgiving people under certain circumstances. You're obviously looking to find a criteria that satisfies the question. How about this question; Why does modern culture go against God's word at every turn, e.g., separating church and State, promoting sexual deviancy and being so lenient in parenting kids never learn discipline AS EVIDENCED by the trend against young adults in their 20's getting married, owning a home and having children and even younger such as teens take over of cities, teen pregnancy, etc?

This thread is a negation, arguing against God's word. It is not asserting a positive about parenting that is NOT also against God's word.

 

[Wrangler]

Any erudite scholar can quote and take scripture out of context to support a faulty view.

There is not much context to proverbs. Adding context changes nothing about the command to beat kids with a rod.

 

[Wrangler]

Agree, poor parenting. Not unlikely from generation to generation.

Now the police have to get involved and use violence that their parents failed to teach them in having the discipline to respect boundaries.

 

[quietthinker]

There is not much context to proverbs. Adding context changes nothing about the command to beat kids with a rod.

It's clear Wrangler, you favour violence as a solution at every turn!

 

[Wrangler]

It's clear Wrangler, you favour violence as a solution at every turn!

God is a warrior and The ultimate solution to evil chosen by God, himself, is violence, annihilate evil in the Lake of Fire. That should tell you something.

Violence solves problems, despite the rhetoric to the contrary. It’s odd that overly-spiritualized people either deny it or their delicate sensibilities are offended by it.

 

[ProDeo]

There is not much context to proverbs. Adding context changes nothing about the command to beat kids with a rod.

Estimate the times you have beaten your kids with a rod.

And please post that number.

 

[Wrangler]

Estimate the times you have beaten your kids with a rod.

And please post that number.

Making it personal shows you have lost the argument.

In my experience, the importance of corporal punishment is much more the threat of it. Although YMMV, I found the threat of it indispensable tool to instill discipline.

 

[Armour of God]

You grant it only "appears" to support corporal punishment. Gotcha!

Pffft whatever
Read on and you'll see that I posted passages that appear to oppose as well
You called me a liar
I warned you about it
And you've called me a liar again
You can piss off for all I care
Don't like people who make false accusations
Your actually the liar
Satan is the father of lies

 

[Wrangler]

Read on and you'll see that I posted passages that appear to oppose as well

I must have missed that. No matter. Your mind is made up.

 

[dad]

What does spanking them actually achieve that other forms of punishment don't?

Why question God? Apparently he wants man to take sin somewhat seriously. He wants children to be corrected and learn right from wrong. There is a place for many types of correction, not just corporal punishment. But there is also a time and place when that is needed. God says so. Now when it comes to pagans, unbelievers, well, since they do not know right from wrong and sin from virtue, I could see why any attempt they make at spanking anyone could be abuse. God corrects us for our own good. Not because He gets angry that we change the tv from a sports game to a cartoon or something. For godly loving parents, spanking is a needed tool in bringing children up in the way they should go. Not the only tool. And not a tool perhaps, that violent evil selfish unbelievers should have access to. That does not mean that a nation that passes laws directly opposing Scripture is right and good. Perhaps it should be considered religious liberty or some such.