JESUS DIED ONLY FOR THE NATION ISRAEL

[Doug]

[John 11:49 KJV] "And one of them, [named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,"
[John 11:50 KJV] "Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not."
[John 11:51 KJV] "And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;" ********* Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel. The blood of the new testament was to redeem the sins Israel committed under the first testament ********[Hebrews 9:15 KJV] "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."
[John 11:52 KJV] "And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad." ********* Those scattered Jews are the other sheep ******** [John 10:16 KJV] "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd."

Paul revealed the mystery that Christ died for all.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

[John 11:49 KJV] "And one of them, [named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,"
[John 11:50 KJV] "Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not."
[John 11:51 KJV] "And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;" ********* Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel. The blood of the new testament was to redeem the sins Israel committed under the first testament ********[Hebrews 9:15 KJV] "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."
[John 11:52 KJV] "And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad." ********* Those scattered Jews are the other sheep ******** [John 10:16 KJV] "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd."

Paul revealed the mystery that Christ died for all.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

1 John 2:2
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

 

[MonoBiblical]

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

1 John 2:2
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

For Israel, and the whole country of Israel? It really isn't that simple, but he didn't die for the gentiles, rather he lived for them, in my humble opinion.

 

[Papa Smurf]

[Jesus] didn't die for the gentiles, rather he lived for them........

Hello MonoBiblical, if the Lord Jesus did not die for the Gentiles, on what basis, then, can Gentile believers be both redeemed and forgiven by God?

You also said that instead of dying for them (Gentile believers), He (the Lord Jesus) lived for them. Please tell us a bit more/what you mean by that, specifically.

Thanks!

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

 

[MonoBiblical]

Hello MonoBiblical, if the Lord Jesus did not die for the Gentiles, on what basis, then, can Gentile believers be both redeemed and forgiven by God?

You also said that instead of dying for them (Gentile believers), He (the Lord Jesus) lived for them. Please tell us a bit more/what you mean by that, specifically.

Thanks!

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

He died above our sins, not for them.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

He died above our sins, not for them.

Have you ever thought that Jesus did both, and for both Jew and Gentile?

 

[ScottA]

[John 11:49 KJV] "And one of them, [named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,"
[John 11:50 KJV] "Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not."
[John 11:51 KJV] "And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;" ********* Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel. The blood of the new testament was to redeem the sins Israel committed under the first testament ********[Hebrews 9:15 KJV] "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."
[John 11:52 KJV] "And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad." ********* Those scattered Jews are the other sheep ******** [John 10:16 KJV] "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd."

Paul revealed the mystery that Christ died for all.

STOP SPREADING DISCOURSE!

"God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16​

 

[ScottA]

Your beef isnt with me its with scripture. Does scripture I gave say something other than what I say it does?

It is your Title (JESUS DIED ONLY FOR THE NATION ISRAEL) that is incorrect. Discourse.

 

[Grailhunter]

[John 11:49 KJV] "And one of them, [named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,"
[John 11:50 KJV] "Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not."
[John 11:51 KJV] "And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;" ********* Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel. The blood of the new testament was to redeem the sins Israel committed under the first testament ********[Hebrews 9:15 KJV] "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."
[John 11:52 KJV] "And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad." ********* Those scattered Jews are the other sheep ******** [John 10:16 KJV] "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd."

Paul revealed the mystery that Christ died for all.

This opens an interesting topic. Should Christians love the Jews? And was it always the plan to offer salvation to the world? For this discussion I present the story of the Canaanite woman.

The Faith of a Canaanite Woman​

Matthew 15:21-28
Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.” Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.” He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

From this story it would appears that this woman talked Yeshua into offering salvation to those other than the Jews. This was long before the ministry of the Apostle Paul. In this whole storyline there were a lot of emotions. Was it always the plan to offer salvation to the world? The Jews, the Jewish-Christians and the Gentile-Christians did not get along.

Yeshua knew that they would not get along. But could it have happened any other way? God saw it fitting to offer salvation to the Jews first. Which brings up the question; How would it have played out if the Jews would have accepted Yeshua as their Messiah? But the Jews were looking for a human Messiah and were highly offended by the divinity of Yeshua. So they did not accept Yeshua as the Messiah. And there were other reasons.

But at the end of the day, I think it was always the plan to offer salvation to the world. But it certainly was not a smooth transition. Paul's ministry was the writing on the wall for the end of the Jewish-Christians....no more Apostles after the destruction of the Temple and the 1st century. The Gentile-Christians took the helm of the Church after that.

A lot of horrible things happened between the Jews, Jewish-Christians and Gentile-Christians during the Roman siege of Jerusalem and a lot of hatred ensued. A lot of the Gentile-Christians considered the Jews the murderers of Christ. As time went on the Jews were not welcome in Christian countries and during the witch-hunt the Christians treated the Jews like witches.

Then as today there are a lot of Christians that do not like Jews. So the question is; Should Christians like Jews? Has God given up on the Jews?
For the record I stood between Israel and her enemies. Whether it be on a nuclear ballistic missile submarine or helping to install the Patriot Missile System.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Have you ever thought that Jesus did both, and for both Jew and Gentile?

It sounds he wanted to cause our sins either way, if he were to die for [them].

 

[MonoBiblical]

Hello MonoBiblical, if the Lord Jesus did not die for the Gentiles, on what basis, then, can Gentile believers be both redeemed and forgiven by God?

You also said that instead of dying for them (Gentile believers), He (the Lord Jesus) lived for them. Please tell us a bit more/what you mean by that, specifically.

Thanks!

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

His death didn't do anything without a ressurrection.

 

[Papa Smurf]

He died above our sins, not for them.

Hello again MonoBiblical, you said that Jesus died "above" our sins, not "for" our sins. Please explain what it means for Him to die "above" our sins (because I'm not sure what you mean by that).

Thanks!!

--Papa Smurf

 

[MonoBiblical]

Hello again MonoBiblical, you said that Jesus died "above" our sins, not "for" our sins. Please explain what it means for Him to die "above" our sins (because I'm not sure what you mean by that).

Thanks!!

--Papa Smurf

You are copiable for thy own sins not someone else's. Jesus didn't remove sins by dying but being a mediator. Currently there is no miraculous pardoning for sins. We now must atone, and remove sins/wrongs where we can.

 

[Papa Smurf]

You are copiable for thy own sins not someone else's. Jesus didn't remove sins by dying but being a mediator. Currently there is no miraculous pardoning for sins. We now must atone, and remove sins/wrongs where we can.

Hello yet again MonoBiblical, if we must atone for our own sins (assuming for the moment that such a thing is possible), then why the Incarnation, and why the Cross

Also, why does the Bible refer to the Lord Jesus as "the Lamb of God", and why are we told that we are "justified by His blood", if we must atone for our own sins and save ourselves somehow

BTW, how do you believe that we do that, atone for our own sins, that is

You also mentioned that there is no "miraculous pardoning for sins" currently. Do you say "currently" because you believe that sins were pardoned by God in a different way than they are today in the past, or that they will be sometime in the future

Thanks!

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
p.s. - I'll add a number of verses/passages for consideration and discussion (all from the NASB 95', just FYI).

Isaiah 53​

5 He was pierced through for our transgressions, ​

He was crushed for our iniquities; ​

The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, ​

And by His scourging we are healed. ​

6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, ​

Each of us has turned to his own way; ​

But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all ​

To fall on Him. ​

​

Matthew 1​

21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins. ​

​

John 1​

29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! ​

​

Romans 5​

8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. ​

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. ​

10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. ​

​

1 Corinthians 15​

3 I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.​

​

2 Corinthians 5​

21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. ​

​

Colossians 1​

19 It was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, ​

20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. ​

​

Hebrews 9​

22 All things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. ​

​

Hebrews 10​

4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.​

​

1 Peter 1​

17 If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth; ​

18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, ​

19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. ​

​

1 Peter 2​

24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the Cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. ​

Revelation 5​

6 I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. ​

7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. ​

8 When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. ​

9 And they sang a new song, saying, ​

“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. ​

10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.” ​

.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Hello yet again MonoBiblical, if we must atone for our own sins (assuming for the moment that such a thing is possible), then why the Incarnation, and why the Cross

Because wrongs/sins cause damage. Boy, did king David ever learn this?

I would also like to add that the Passover sacrifices were salvation or rescue sacrifices. The thing which atoned was the Messiahs life and death., and perhaps undeath. By his stripes, they were healed.

 

[Wick Stick]

[John 11:49 KJV] "And one of them, [named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,"
[John 11:50 KJV] "Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not."
[John 11:51 KJV] "And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;" ********* Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel. The blood of the new testament was to redeem the sins Israel committed under the first testament ********[Hebrews 9:15 KJV] "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."
[John 11:52 KJV] "And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad." ********* Those scattered Jews are the other sheep ******** [John 10:16 KJV] "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd."

Paul revealed the mystery that Christ died for all.

What's the difference between "Israel" and "Judah?"
Can you explain the difference between "Jews" and "Israelites?"

I suspect if you can properly define those things, the Bible will start making more sense to you. I know it did for me.

 

[Wick Stick]

Because wrongs/sins cause damage. Boy, did king David ever learn this?

I would also like to add that the Passover sacrifices were salvation or rescue sacrifices. The thing which atoned was the Messiahs life and death., and perhaps undeath. By his stripes, they were healed.

Undeath?

"Every story is a zombie story if you look hard enough." -Anonymous

 

[MonoBiblical]

Because wrongs/sins cause damage. Boy, did king David ever learn this?

I would also like to add that the Passover sacrifices were salvation or rescue sacrifices. The thing which atoned was the Messiahs life and death., and perhaps undeath. By his stripes, they were healed.

I forgot to add, that sin offerings were usually for Yom Kippur.

 

[Wick Stick]

Care to tell me

Ok.

"Israel" usually includes the whole nation comprised of all 12 tribes.

"The House of Israel" only includes those in the northern kingdom after the country split in two. That's 9/12 tribes, plus some of the Levites. This group is also sometimes called "Ephraim" after it's most important tribe, or "Samaria" after it's capital city. This kingdom was destroyed by Assyria in the 7th century BC and ceased to exist, becoming "lost."

"Judah" or "The House of Judah" only includes the those in the southern kingdom after the split. That's the other 3 tribes (Judah, Simeon & Benjamin), against plus some Levites. "Jews" are people from that southern kingdom. They were never "lost," though they were in "captivity" for a while.

When Jesus says He was sent to "the LOST sheep of the HOUSE of Israel," He's talking about that first group. He's talking about collecting their "lost" descendent and re-establishing their "lost" nation. He's also saying the He was NOT sent to Judah. Indeed, He seems to have avoided going to Judah/Jerusalem except when the feasts demanded it.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Ok.

"Israel" usually includes the whole nation comprised of all 12 tribes.

"The House of Israel" only includes those in the northern kingdom after the country split in two. That's 9/12 tribes, plus some of the Levites. This group is also sometimes called "Ephraim" after it's most important tribe, or "Samaria" after it's capital city. This kingdom was destroyed by Assyria in the 7th century BC and ceased to exist, becoming "lost."

"Judah" or "The House of Judah" only includes the those in the southern kingdom after the split. That's the other 3 tribes (Judah, Simeon & Benjamin), against plus some Levites. "Jews" are people from that southern kingdom. They were never "lost," though they were in "captivity" for a while.

When Jesus says He was sent to "the LOST sheep of the HOUSE of Israel," He's talking about that first group. He's talking about collecting their "lost" descendent and re-establishing their "lost" nation. He's also saying the He was NOT sent to Judah. Indeed, He seems to have avoided going to Judah/Jerusalem except when the feasts demanded it.

One problem, Jew doesn't usually mean Benjamite, and it is never a Simeonite.