Trump and Politics

[Taken]

.....you have a serious problem not understanding how that scripture relates to Trump's behaviour (Posting himself as Jesus)......

Do you think anyone depicted tending to the lame, sick, injured, dying…
is posing as Jesus?

 

[Lizbeth]

Nice. That you don't even attempt to explain how 'context' means we aren't supposed to submit to government as Romans 13:1 explicitly states.

You're not fooling anyone Wrangler. Is that what you call doing justice/being just? Twisting someone's words for your advantage? Hypocrisy is not good fruit.

 

[ProDeo]

You're not fooling anyone Wrangler. Is that what you call doing justice/being just? Twisting someone's words for your advantage? Hypocrisy is not good fruit.

Note what Wrangler wrote yesterday about Romans 13 : The command to obey civilian government is obviously not absolute but given the default condition of them being agents of justice - not injustice.

Romans 13 at first glance does not read that way and it was written to Christians living under the cruel Roman Empire who crucified our Lord and with an emperor who called himself divine. OTOH it makes Romans 13 more bearable with his (being agents of justice) condition.

Your interpretation of Roman 13 is a specific warning to the Christians who did not want (refused) to pay taxes to Caesar (the Hitler of that time) is the best I have ever heard.

Hard topic.

 

[Wrangler]

Twisting someone's words for your advantage?

Projecting. You are the one twisting - and not fooling anyone. Let's review.

Submit to the governing authorities is not a command

hmmm. Never read Romans 13:1
Everyone must submit to governing authorities.

"Context" doesn't change the command to submit to government authorities. And this is stated repeatedly as I wrote.

More than one thing can be true at the same time.

1. Of course, we obey God.
2. God commands us to Give to Caesar what is Caesars's,
3. i.e., submit to governing authorities,
4. We're all gods (Ps 82:6) as Jesus affirmed, meaning law givers and judges.
5. We are to judge things of this life. 1 Corinthians 6:3

It shouldn't have to be said over and over again. Romans 13 goes on to explain the why government has been put in authority over us and its purpose, which is aligned with Micah 6:8, to DO JUSTICE.

 

[Lizbeth]

Projecting. You are the one twisting - and not fooling anyone. Let's review.




"Context" doesn't change the command to submit to government authorities. And this is stated repeatedly as I wrote.

Golly, Wrangler......please quote the whole sentence not just part of it in order to misrepresent my meaning. I know very well that we are commanded to be subject to the governing authorities and am not saying otherwise............as I think you well know.

Here's my whole post (#392):
_________________________________________________
<<< Give to Caesar what is Caesar's was about paying your taxes and obeying the laws, nothing more. Submit to the governing authorities is not a command or instruction for the church to try and change those authorities. There are always plenty of people of the world engaged in activism.

Sure, we are to do justice.....act justly, fairly, equitably, honestly....do what is right. That does not equate to political activism. >>>
_________________________________________

Are you acting justly towards me in this?

 

[Wrangler]

You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper ...

Golly, Wrangler......please quote the whole sentence

No thank you. I already invited you to address the 'context' claim you made relative to verse, chapter, book. You declined to explain yourself, support your assertion.

I reject your Superman argument. It's not up to me to prove you right.

I know very well that we are commanded to be subject to the governing authorities

Oh, well funny how you feel no compunction to square your contradictory posts.

Submit to the governing authorities is not a command

Which is it?

1. Trump is great in enforcing law, closing the border + deporting illegal alien invaders as we are subject to governing authorities?
2. Submit to governing authorities is not a command and since the law has no practical application, not being subject to them, for waging a war to eliminate the greatest threat to peace in our lifetime makes Trump great?

 

[Wrangler]

Here's my whole post (#392):
_________________________________________________
<<< Give to Caesar what is Caesar's was about paying your taxes and obeying the laws, nothing more. Submit to the governing authorities is not a command or instruction for the church to try and change those authorities. There are always plenty of people of the world engaged in activism.

Sure, we are to do justice.....act justly, fairly, equitably, honestly....do what is right. That does not equate to political activism. >>>

And I've repeatedly explained why your post is incorrect.

Let me word it differently. People are not YHWH but they are put in authority over us by YHWH. While YHWH never commanded us to drive on the of the road, doesn't mean those in authority have not given this command in America and drive on the LHS of the road in England.

Now, these same authorities have authorized us to "change those authorities" such as by voting, either in elections or changing laws, including the Constitution. Although the word "right" is used, this is a misnomer as it is our duty per these very same YHWH ordained earthly authorities.

Couched via Ordo Amoris, we have obligations to multiple authorities simultaneously. Presuming no conflict among them, we should submit. For instance, even though there is no Bible verse saying I should come home immediately after work, there is no verse prohibiting it. However, my wife expects this of me and I should submit to her out of love for Christ. Not sure why this is a problem for you but these are the depths folks with TDS will go to avoid simple truths.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

please quote the whole sentence not just part of it in order to misrepresent my meaning

He may just be posting the part he is addressing, the part of what you said be believes you need assistance with.

This does not always mean a person is being malevolent against you ya know.

 

[Lizbeth]

You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper ...


No thank you. I already invited you to address the 'context' claim you made relative to verse, chapter, book. You declined to explain yourself, support your assertion.

I reject your Superman argument. It's not up to me to prove you right.



Oh, well funny how you feel no compunction to square your contradictory posts.



Which is it?

1. Trump is great in enforcing law, closing the border + deporting illegal alien invaders as we are subject to governing authorities?
2. Submit to governing authorities is not a command and since the law has no practical application, not being subject to them, for waging a war to eliminate the greatest threat to peace in our lifetime makes Trump great?

Let me try to put it another way. The command to be subject to governing authorities is not a command to be an activist to try and change said government if you dont' like said government. We are only commanded/instructed to be subject....put another way there is no command or instruction or obligation for the church to be involved in governments of the land, either to support them or work for their change. Hope that helps.

 

[Lizbeth]

He may just be posting the part he is addressing, the part of what you said be believes you need assistance with.

This does not always mean a person is being malevolent against you ya know.

Can't remember seeing him have trouble with reading comprehension before now. That said, I suppose anyone can have a mental block.

 

[Wrangler]

Let me try to put it another way. The command to be subject to governing authorities is not a command to be an activist to try and change said government

I totally get your incorrect world view. Just because Mom didn’t tell you to take out the trash doesn’t mean you aren’t duty bound to do so when Dad tells you to do it. Say g over and bee aga. That Mom didn’t tell you is a diversion. All your negations are mere subterfuge.

1. God commanded us to submit to government.
2. Government in Western Democracies impose various duties, such as finance government via taxes, jury duty and voting.

The Strawman of shunning being an ‘activist’ does not absolve you of your duties, including your duty to DO JUSTICE, where government is the principle agent of justice.

Fulfilling your duty to DO JUSTICE via citizenship duties does not require one to be an ‘activist’ protesting everyday. I think you’ll agree that I’ve stated this numerous times. No one commands Christians to be a political ‘activist’ and no one made this claim. Yet, we are duty bound by citizenship laws and regulations to guide the ship of state via voting, etc,

Having said all that, what does this have to do with Trump? The principles don’t change based on who is the current chief executive.

 

[Wrangler]

He may just be posting the part he is addressing, the part of what you said be believes you need assistance with.

This does not always mean a person is being malevolent against you ya know.

Obviously. When a rebuttal begins with an abject false statement, you know there is an agenda.

As a Christian, I don’t have to be faithful to my wife … BLAH … BLAH … BLAH … <RATIONALIZATION, exception> … BLAH … BLAH … BLAH.

Truth is, Christians are expected to be faithful to their spouse! That is the place to begin. When considering exceptions, it doesn’t change the general rule. But death. But they filed for divorce, which is now final etc.

Why start by stating a qualified exception AS IF it were the general rule? Agenda.

 

[Wrangler]

We are only commanded/instructed to be subject....put another way there is no command or instruction or obligation for the church to be involved in governments of the land, either to support them or work for their change.

So says the overly-spiritualized, denying millions of Christians acting to the contrary over the centuries!

1. The Christianization of the Roman Empire.
2. The Holy Roman Empire.
3. The Crusades.
4. The Founding of America based mostly on the Bible.
5. Colonies who established various Christian State sponsored religions.
6. The First Amendment preventing Christians from establishing State sponsored religions in the replacement to The Articles of Confederation.
7. The temperance movement changing the Constitution prohibiting alcohol based on the Bible.
8. The establishment of the Office of Minister for the US.
9. Swearing in high office on a Bible
10. Swearing witnessed on a Bible
11. A likeness of Moses at the doors to the US Supreme Court.
12. George Washington proclaiming a national day of thanksgiving to God becoming yet another Christian holiday paid time off by government decree.
13. The first national holiday was to honor our Lord, Jesus Christ.

No history at all of Christians EVER involved in governments of the land, either to support them or work for their change.

 

[Jack]

Mean while in Minnesota:
Videos verified by Reuters show officers drawing guns on drivers, smashing windows, pepper-spraying passengers.

One ICE officer reportedly followed a woman back to her home after running her plates, “to freak her out.”

Another was caught on video telling a man, “You raise your voice, I erase your voice.”
----------------------------------

A copy of 1930s Germany.

Why aren't you telling us about all the illegals trying to destroy America?

 

[Brakelite]

OK, so when civil government is not requiring people to not practice Christianity, are you still in favor off living in rebellion to the civil government which God has established?

Did you remove this passage from your Bible?

Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. - Romans 13:2

If not, then how will you escape damnation since you seem to be teaching everyone should be in rebellion to civil government when God's Word is clear that it is HE that established the authority by which civil government exists?

The civil power has authority over matters that are within its realm of jurisprudence. Civil power has civil authority. I'm happy to surrender our submit myself to civil authority.
Civil power however does not have and never has had spiritual authority. I will never, and nor should you, surrender your spiritual destiny to the civil power, regardless of its claims to be God's representative.
Revelation 13 is precisely about the civil power, the second beast of Revelation 13, appropriating spiritual authority with which it has no right to, in order to enforce worship. This worship is that which is ordained and approved by the first beast, whose mark it is that is impressed upon all who have not the seal of God.
Government or civil power may have limited rights to enforce the law regarding the second table of the Ten Commandments. Those laws are strictly between man and man. It has no right however to enforce any law regarding the first table. That is solely and exclusively between man and God.
We have in the United States a situation where the church...a composite of evangelicals and Pentecostals and a number of the more conservative mainline churches supporting the government in its endeavours to Christianise America. You and I will likely agree on some issues. Walking back the numerous "woke" ideological concepts that gave rise to laws such as ridiculously loose abortion laws, gay rights, hate speech laws and various restrictive laws that impacted the exercise of religion in the public space. However, you and I know, and everyone else reading this would admit, if they were honest, that those churches and the administration itself, aren't going to stop there. They are going to dictate how, who, who with, and when you worship. That's Revelation 13 in a nut shell. And it is beginning in America. It's prophetic, and it's doomed to failure, and will be the death knell to your nation.

 

[Brakelite]

Acts 12:22-23​

22 They shouted, “This is the voice of a god, not of a man.”

23 Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Better be careful about politicians being shown as Jesus Christ.)

But to give him his due, he did take it down when informed of the nuanced interpretations taken by his enemies. I do agree with you, it isn't a good look. But I would rather give him the benefit of the doubt than claim he is impersonating Jesus.

 

[Brakelite]

I think many are forgetting the context of Jesus's words. "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's..."
We do not have to submit to civil government in areas where it doesn't belong. What's at issue in these last days in context of prophecy is freedom of conscience. Religious liberty. Where is all the present excitement and religious fervour leading in the endeavour of the church to use government to Christianise the nation? I'll tell you.

“9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. ”
Revelation 14:9-12 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

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Notice above. The contrast between the two parties. Those that receive the mark have subjected themselves to the civil power. Those that refuse the mark have submitted themselves to the commandments of God.

Could this be a reference to some who are now attempting to influence government?

“8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. ”
Matthew 15:8-9 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

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[Ziggy]

Could this be a reference to some who are now attempting to influence government?

That is the "silent" war we are battling. It is both carnal and spiritual.
But the seed of one or the other must be planted in the spiritual realm of the heart.

We are Here:
Mat 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

It's just a matter of time for the Great Awakening, when people see the battle for what it is.
A war for your heart and soul and mind.
Or the battle over the first Commandment which will decide how you follow the Second.

Mar 12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Today.

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

To All the Haters out there, You can go to Hell.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Civil power however does not have and never has had spiritual authority

Nobody said it did. I specifically said if civil government tells us to not abide by God's Word then Christians are to not obey

You'll notice in the Book of Acts when the Apostles were told to not use the Name of Jesus they kept using it.

We have in the United States a situation where the church...a composite of evangelicals and Pentecostals and a number of the more conservative mainline churches supporting the government in its endeavours to Christianise America.

There are always the liberals that you can follow who seek to demonize America.

Which is the lesser of the 2 evils? One side trying to at least get people to think about Jesus and the Bible and the other sie trying to turn this nation in to a godless communist form of government which will lead to persecution of Christians?

However, you and I know, and everyone else reading this would admit, if they were honest, that those churches and the administration itself, aren't going to stop there. They are going to dictate how, who, who with, and when you worship. That's Revelation 13 in a nut shell. And it is beginning in America. It's prophetic, and it's doomed to failure, and will be the death knell to your nation.

Oh well. It's not like we are going to be able to do anything to stop the anti-christ from coming forth.

It's actually a good thing because it forces people to get off of the fence and pick a side to either walk with the Lord or follow the fake wordily religious system that the liberals approve of.

We know any religious system the liberals are willing to accept is demonic which is what the ecumenical movement is which is the precursor of the coming one world religion.

will be the death knell to your nation.

For your nation as well, which is already worse off than the US in terms of religious and personal freedoms