When Might Satan With His Angels Come to This Earth For the Tribulation?

[Spiritual Israelite]

You can believe whatever you like....it doesnt make it true.

I say the same to you. It's just too bad that you believe so many things that aren't true.

...what is true, is what God makes known to those he “draws” to that truth. (John 6:44)
No one can come to the Father apart from Jesus Christ....but no one can come to the Son unless it is granted by the Father (John 6:65)......where does that leave all of us?

What exactly is your point here? Jesus said that He would draw all people to Himself (John 12:32). But, obviously, not all people believe in Him, so that means people can resist His drawing.

Paul answers....in 2 Thess 2...
“Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him. . . .Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. . . . Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.” (NASB)

Do the deluded know that they are? Not until the judgment.....too late then to change your mind. (Matt 7:21-23)

People can discover the truth and be led out of their delusions by reading scripture. As Paul said, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17). But, what Paul wrote about there in the passage you quoted is a time during which people are deceived by "all power and signs and false wonders" that occur "in accord with the activity of Satan" and God sends them strong delusions and gives them over to their unbelief, similar to what is described in Romans 1:18-32. So, that's not talking about people never getting the opportunity to hear the truth and accept it if that's what you're saying.

Yes, a “soul” is the living breathing creature...human or animal. The word is synonymous with life. A living soul is breathing...a dead soul is not.

Do you not even read what I say? I said that the word soul doesn't have just one meaning, which is a fact, so why do you deny facts?

Paul indicated that the soul is a part of a human along with the spirt and the body. Why do you ignore this? Why do you cherry pick scripture and draw conclusions from your cherry picked verses while ignoring the rest of scripture?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And if you knew your Bible, you would see that this verse, so often used to promote humans as triune beings like they believe God is....but that isn’t what it means at all. This is addressed to the whole congregation, not to individuals within it. The “whole spirit, soul and body” is the entire congregation where those things mean something entirely different to how you have been taught to read that verse, out of context.

LOL. This has to be one of the worst interpretations of a verse imaginable. You blatantly twist scripture to make it say what you want it to say. There is no collective soul, spirit and body of the congregation. It can be referred to as the collective body of Christ, but never the collective spirit, soul and body of Christ.

 

[William Barton]

Zechariah 1:20 חרשים ארבעה = "four craftsmen."

Sometimes craftsmen are assigned to replace a dilapidated building by demolishing it and rebuilding.

If "people of the world" comprise the "house" to be torn down, then that destruction does not bode well for us. See Exodus 32:11-35.

God will not be patient forever.

 

[William Barton]

Satan and his angels are already here, for many years now (1Peter 5:8).

Not to worry, God's angels are here too, and they protect us (Matthew 18:10).

Angels are incredibly powerful. In 2Kings 19:35 a single angel slaughters 185,000 people overnight.

 

[Davy]

WARNING TO BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

Be careful brethren of those who try to turn all the parameters of Christ's parables into fiction. Those don't know what they are talking about.

When Jesus told about Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16 there is no reason to DOUBT what He showed with that place in the heavenly with the great fixed gulf between hell and where Abraham and Lazarus was. Lord Jesus may have used Lazarus and the rich man as symbolic examples, but He would NEVER give an IMAGINERY layout of Paradise.

Likewise, in Christ's parable of the tares of the field, when He was asked by His disciples in private to 'explain' the parable to them, His explanation was NOT another parable, but a literal description of how things really are. Christ sowed (spiritually) the good seed for this world, but the devil sowed the tares which represent his seed.

Many Jewish converts still have a problem with understanding about how God created us with 3 parts, a spirit, a soul, and a flesh body. They still have a primitive understanding about how God created man per Genesis 2:7, wrongly thinking that our 'soul' is also made up of material earthly matter when it is made up of spirit, and is of the heavenly dimension, and not of this earthly dimension. That is why they believe in such false ideas as 'soul sleep', like the soul dies with our flesh body and both have to be raised together at the resurrection. No, Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 10:28 that our soul continues on to God when our flesh dies. That means our spirit too along with our soul, as they both are connected together.

 

[William Barton]

IMO:
o First heaven = atmosphere, where people abide.
o Second heaven = space, where stars abide.
o Third heaven = abode of angels, another dimension.
o Hell is beneath the earth.

Note that angels cheered when our universe was being created, Job 38:7. So at that time they were not part of our universe.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The Bible says:

"The Lord will come suddenly to his temple" (Malachi 3:1).
No rebuilt temple, no return.

The true temple is “not made with hands”, William.

John 2:18-22....
“So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” But he was speaking about the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.” (ESV)

What then was “the temple of his body”? It was not a physical body, but a spiritual one.

Paul confirmed that this was no earthly temple....
“Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.” (ESV)

There is no need of another physical temple, as the heavenly one is indestructible and the ones serving there will never die.

This prophesy of Malachi was referenced by Jesus himself, identifying the one spoken about...

Matt 11:7-14...
“As they went away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? What then did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings' houses. What then did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. This is he of whom it is written,“‘Behold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way before you.’ Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.” (ESV)

Why could Jesus say that about John B? How could John be ‘greater than any human born of women’, and yet be inferior to one who is least in the Kingdom of heaven?

The Bible answers these questions, but if you ask anyone in Christendom for those answers, all you will hear is ...*crickets*...No one has to say....”I think it means this or that” because the Bible answers for itself without contradiction.
No one simply reading the Bible will come to the correct conclusions, because we have to study it to unlock the truth.....Jesus said it’s like “hidden treasure” that requires effort to dig and bring to the surface....most people are either too lazy, or convinced that you need a degree in theology to understand it. Not so....none of the 12 apostles were educated men and this was used by the Pharisees to imply their inferiority.

Like God’s ancient servants, both Jewish and Christian....you just have to have the right teachers....and you will be horribly misled if you have the wrong ones......but don’t expect them to be scholars or to have degrees after their name......they will be a hated minority, quietly doing as Christ instructed.

The Master gave this warning....
John 15:18-21...
“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. But all these things they will do to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me.” (ESV)

The majority would reject his messengers, just as they rejected him....but some would listen despite the hateful things said about them. (Matt 5:11-12; Matt 7:13-14)

 

[William Barton]

Paul acknowledges that the dead sleep.....

Fortunately if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.

IMO:

o "Fall asleep" is a euphemism for "die."
o Believers go to the Presence of God in heaven (2Corinthians 5:8).
o Earthly body is replaced by heavenly body (1Corinthians 15:51-58).
o "True temple" is the temple in heaven (Psalm 11:4)

 

[Marilyn C]

Of course not. My point about Luke 16:19-31 is not that every word in it is literal. My point is that it's not a parable. Are you suggesting that any time Jesus used figurative language, that means it was a parable? That's not the case. Are you paying attention to what is actually being discussed here? I never said that everything He said in Luke 16:19-31 was literal. But, Abraham's bosom and hell/Hades were real places where the souls and spirits of physically dead people were held. The rich man and Lazarus were real people just as the other people mentioned in the passage are (Abraham and Moses). I am saying that Luke 16:19-31 is not a parable since Jesus did not mention real people and places in His parables. Do you disagree with that?

I don`t believe they were real people or it was a real situation. Jesus is using a pictorial illustration to get the point across.

 

[Davy]

I believe Jesus' descriptions of Paradise there in Luke 16 were accurate. He would not mislead us with those descriptions just to tell a story. Otherwise all His other use of descriptors in His parables would not mean what they do. So this is actually a simple matter of Faith in God's written Word, specifically by Lord Jesus Christ. It's not up for grab bag application, either one believes what Lord Jesus revealed, or they don't. And for those, which are doubters of God's Word, it's hard to trust much else of their understanding in The Bible. As a matter of fact, Apostle James gave a lesson on that very thing about doubting God's Word...

James 1:5-8
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, That giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
KJV

 

[Davy]

Now then, just how... will Satan appear on earth in the last days in JERUSALEM, as the coming false-Messiah?

There's several examples in God's Word about angels that have appeared to flesh people. The two angels that were sent to Lot in Genesis 19 were seen by the sodomites as two men. The shepherd's of Luke 2 when baby Jesus was born must have really been shocked when they saw the angel of The Lord, and even saw a great multitude of heavenly host praising God.

In 2 Kings 6, God's prophet Elisha prayed that his servant's eyes would be opened so he could see the great heavenly host surrounding Elisha...

2 Kings 6:15-17
15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, "Alas, my master! how shall we do?"

16 And he answered, "Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them."

17 And Elisha prayed, and said, "LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see." And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
KJV

Elisha's servant was allowed to see into the Heavenly dimension where invisible angels with chariots and horses were behind Elisha protecting him.

In Hebrews 13:2, we are reminded to be hospitable to strangers, because some have entertained angels and didn't know it.

At one point in Christ's Ministry, He took Peter, John, and James up to a mountain to pray. As Lord Jesus prayed, His countenance was altered, and there appeared to Him Moses and Elias (Elijah). Moses had died and God buried his body. Elijah had been caught up by The LORD. Peter, James, and John saw them speaking with Jesus. So they are not dead, they simply live in the Heavenly dimension in their spirit body.

Luke 9:28-31
28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, He took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29 And as He prayed, the fashion of His countenance was altered, and His raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with Him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of His decease which He should accomplish at Jerusalem.
KJV

That was not some dream Christ's disciples were having. The literally saw Moses and Elijah speaking with Lord Jesus. The angelic body, or spiritual body, can... manifest here on earth in our earthly dimension without... the need of a flesh body.

Likewise it will be when Satan and his angels arrive in our earthly dimension once the war in Heaven with Archangel Michael happens, and Satan and his angels are cast out of the Heavenly dimension down to this earth. They won't need flesh bodies to appear to us here on earth, just as with the many Bible examples of angels appearing on earth.

Brethren in Christ, don't be concerned with those who refuse to understand God's Word about the ability of the spirit body of angels to manifest with the image of man on this earth. Those folks still dwell in a mind state like primitive tribal men, superstitious and fearful when angels appear on earth. Lord Jesus after His death and resurrection appeared suddenly out of nowhere to His disciples, and likewise disappeared right among them too.

Thus there is a type of weaving possible in between our earthly dimension by those in that Heavenly dimension. They can move freely back and forth between both. But we, with flesh bodies, cannot do that. Like Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:50 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; it's because the Heavenly dimension is one of Spirit.

What the final generation of this present world will see when Satan as the pseudo-Christ shows up here on earth, will be supernatural angelic-type... miracles. Satan is a heavenly being, a cherub. He has the power to works miracles also.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don`t believe they were real people or it was a real situation. Jesus is using a pictorial illustration to get the point across.

And what is your reason for believing that? And what point exactly do you think Jesus was trying to get across? There is no indication the the rich man and Lazarus were not real people. Why would he name Lazarus if he wasn't a real person? That makes no sense. Also, he mentioned Abraham and Moses as well. They are obviously real people. Do you believe in soul sleep?

 

[William Barton]

Aunty Jane noted:
>temple was Jesus's body>

1Corinthians 6:19-20 says the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately we have lost the kind of communion with God that Adam and Eve once had.

The first Jewish temple was the Presence of God, and it lit up when God first occupied it (1Kings 8:10-11).We likewise had the literal Presence when Jesus was born, and he is coming back for us (Revelation 19:11-21).

Jesus did say, "Destroy this temple (his body), and I will raise it up in three days" (John 2:19). If the Spirit of God resides within us, then in a sense our body is a temple.

 

[William Barton]

IMO Satan and his angels are already here, many years now:

See Ezekiel 28:14-16, which is a polemic against the King of Tyre and also against the cherub (Satan) who supported him.

 

[Davy]

IMO Satan and his angels are already here, many years now:

See Ezekiel 28:14-16, which is a polemic against the King of Tyre and also against the cherub (Satan) who supported him.

Not in person on earth yet. Ezekiel 28 also reveals Satan will be turned to ashes UPON THE EARTH in sight of all those who behold him...

Ezek 28:18
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
KJV

That means Satan will appear, literally, upon this earth with the image of man to those living upon this earth. He will not be hiding behind an invisible veil like he is doing right now.

 

[William Barton]

IMO:
A plant is a body.
A dog is a body and soul ("soul" = "intelligence").
A person is a body and soul and spirit (1Thessalonians 5:23).

"Spirit" = "communion with God." Ours currently is turned off.

 

[Davy]

IMO:
A plant is a body.
A dog is a body and soul ("soul" = "intelligence").
A person is a body and soul and spirit (1Thessalonians 5:23).

"Spirit" = "communion with God." Ours currently is turned off.

Those are wild assumptions, not Biblical. So here I go again...

1. Hebrews 4:12 reveals God made us with a spirit, and a soul, and flesh. Each part is a separate part.
2. Per Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, when our flesh body dies, it goes back to the earth where it came from. But our 'spirit' goes back to God Who gave it. This "spirit" of Eccl.12 is about our other body Apostle Paul taught that we also have, per 2 Corinthians 5. It is a spirit body, the "image of the heavenly" Paul also called it in 1 Corinthians 15:49.
3. Per Matthew 10:28, Jesus said to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul. That means our 'soul' part continues on with our 'spirit' back to God also when our flesh body dies.
4. Per Matthew 10:28 also, Jesus said to fear The Father Who can destroy BOTH our spirit body and soul in the "lake of fire". Per Revelation 20 that event of destruction of one's soul in the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign is called the "second death".
5. Per Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, we are also shown about an invisible "silver cord" that keeps our "spirit" part attached to our flesh body. And that "silver cord" is loosed (i.e., severed) at flesh death, allowing the soul with spirit to go back to God. This reveals each part has a separateness, but the soul and spirit are linked together, and leave the flesh body together at flesh death.

 

[William Barton]

Apparently there is a Jerusalem in heaven (Revelation 21:2-3) as well as a Jerusalem on earth.

 

[Davy]

The realm of SPIRIT is actually the more REAL realm of existence. From it came the creation of the earthly realm of material matter (Heb.11:3). The realm of Spirit is Eternal, has always existed with God.

That may be difficult to understand while we are alive on earth in these flesh bodies, but eventually, either at flesh death, or at the change on the "last trump", everyone is going to understand it.

Revelation 4:11 says all things were created by God for His pleasure. In Isaiah 45:18 God said He created the earth NOT tohu ("without form"), but to be inhabited, i.e., lived upon. And that those in Christ's Salvation shall do. And we won't need flesh bodies in order to do that living upon the earth.

 

[William Barton]

Aunty Jane asked: <Why wasn't it God's bosom?>

God is invisible, hard to find (Colossians 1:15).

 

[Davy]

God is not... hard to find, for those who look for Him.

Acts 17:27-31
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after Him, and find Him, though He be not far from every one of us:

28 For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead.
KJV