The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[sondring7]

An angel is mentioned but that doesn't mean there aren't more. Same for horses.





No, this is the one and same rapture event. Why would Christ return twice for two raptures in the same day?





After the resurrection and rapture, he will descend with his complete army above Armageddon.

+++ Why would Christ return twice for two raptures in the same day?

Matt 25 writes GATHER BY ANGELS, rapture/harpazo not mentioned
1 Thess writes writes rise & caught up (raptured), no mention of angels

Adding to those verses is required when trying to prove these are the same event.
I'm glad you don't do that :)

 

[ewq1938]

+++ Why would Christ return twice for two raptures in the same day?

Matt 25 writes GATHER BY ANGELS, rapture/harpazo not mentioned

Doesn't mean the gathering is not how the rapture happens. Another passage mentions a gathering and it is about the rapture.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

1 Thess writes writes rise & caught up (raptured), no mention of angels

They don't have to be mentioned. 2Th 2:1 doesn't mention them either but it's still speaking of the rapture.

Adding to those verses is required when trying to prove these are the same event.
I'm glad you don't do that :)

No two passages on the same event use the same exact language. It's a logical fallacy to require that.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Nope, same return. There's only one second coming which is when the resurrection and rapture happen, and shortly after the battle of Armageddon.

The Bible debunks one coming.
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

SEE THAT? THAT COMING IS DURING THE TRIB

That coming by Jesus can not be, or ever will be, the white horse coming of rev 19 AFTER THE TRIB.
REV 19
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It is absurd beyond belief that the last trump per 1 Cor 15 is meaning pretrib rather than post trib. The dead in Christ that rise first can't do that unless they are changed in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump. That passage says death is swallowed up in victory for believers(thus the saved). And if meaning pretrib, pretrib has some of the ones left behind becoming believers, thus becoming saved. Then some of these same ones being killed. Which then contradicts that death is swallowed up in victory for believers if that already took place pretrib rather than post trib.


If Pretribbers instead agree that the last trump is meaning post trib rather than pretrib, that means they have the dead in Christ that rise first rising in mortal bodies not immortals bodies. No matter how you look at it, pretrib contradicts something major. But why would it be contradicting anything major if it's the correct position?

The elephant in the room is that Jesus debunked your entire deal in mat 24.
The setting at the rapture is different than the second coming.

You are needing one verse to void another verse.

In your poorlybthougt out doctrine you guys attempted to put a bandaid on your model by inventing "ONE COMING".

THAT IS EASILY DEBUNKED.
In fact it is flat out embarrassing.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Doesn't mean the gathering is not how the rapture happens. Another passage mentions a gathering and it is about the rapture.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,





They don't have to be mentioned. 2Th 2:1 doesn't mention them either but it's still speaking of the rapture.



No two passages on the same event use the same exact language. It's a logical fallacy to require that.

Also, saying the coming with Jesus sitting on a cloud, holding a sickle, is the exact same thing, as a warrior Jesus on a horse, accompanied by millions on horseback blackening the sky, is the same event, would be a logical fallacy


In fact an impossibility.

I just blew a hole in your doctrine that a school bus could drive through.

 

[CrowCross]

Doesn't mean the gathering is not how the rapture happens. Another passage mentions a gathering and it is about the rapture.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

And this happens prior to the revealing of the antichrist.

 

[Davidpt]

DUDE!!!!! You'r not getting it....JESUS DIDN'T LEAVE ON A WHITE HORSE LIKE HE RETURNS IN REV 19. PERIOD.

How many times did Jesus leave in Acts 1? Only one time? Or more than one time? Obviously, in like manner has to match how many times He left, one time in this case.

 

[rebuilder 454]

How many times did Jesus leave in Acts 1? Only one time? Or more than one time? Obviously, in like manner has to match how many times He left, one time in this case.

Overgeneralizing to hide the debacle of "like manner"

"It is a race car because it has 4 tires"
" see see that is how we can tell there is no difference"
" nowhere does it say a racecar goes around the track more than once"
"So it must go around the track ONLY ONCE"

Wow.
Hopeless.
False doctrine teachers making fools out of gullibles.
Flat out embarrassing.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Heyyyy….Wait a second; you got a scripture for that claim?

Rev 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

There are 5 more in that same chapter

6 witnesses saying no saint "goes through " the trib

 

[rebuilder 454]

@grafted branch

And another way you can keep from being deceived: Ready? Okay. When the first dude who says he’s Jesus appears, real quick, pinch yourself. If you feel physical pain, that dude is a fake—he is the
antichrist. Remember that when the true JESUS returns, we will all be changed into spiritual bodies where we will not feel a pinch.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

All believers that are awake will know immediately that the ac is an imposter.

Notice I said "awake"

But no, we saw with Obama that thousands of believers were deceived by that guy.

Sad that the end times believers will be just as gullible with the arrival of the AC.

 

[rebuilder 454]

At least Pretribbers, such as you, have some things in common with most Amil posttribbers. They too agree the Acts 1 return is meaning the 1 Thessalonians 4 rapture. They too agree the Acts 1 return has zero to do with Zechariah 14:4. While OTOH, most Premil posttribbers, if not all, agree with the texts instead. That in like manner includes Him returning to the very spot He exited from. IOW, it is not a coincidence that Acts 1, in light of Luke 24, has Him leaving the earth from the mount of Olives, and that Zechariah 14:4 has Him returning to the earth on the mount of Olives.

How silly to think "like manner " means exact location.

Nope nope nope.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It is absurd beyond belief that the last trump per 1 Cor 15 is meaning pretrib rather than post trib. The dead in Christ that rise first can't do that unless they are changed in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump. That passage says death is swallowed up in victory for believers(thus the saved). And if meaning pretrib, pretrib has some of the ones left behind becoming believers, thus becoming saved. Then some of these same ones being killed. Which then contradicts that death is swallowed up in victory for believers if that already took place pretrib rather than post trib.


If Pretribbers instead agree that the last trump is meaning post trib rather than pretrib, that means they have the dead in Christ that rise first rising in mortal bodies not immortals bodies. No matter how you look at it, pretrib contradicts something major. But why would it be contradicting anything major if it's the correct position?

And look what you just did.
I showed you in a ton of examples where "like manner" is OPPOSITE your made up model.
I thoroughly smashed you beliefs.

What is your answer?

Last trump
Last trump
Last trump

SMH

 

[Sel@h]

Rev 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

There are 5 more in that same chapter

6 witnesses saying no saint "goes through " the trib

God says:
Revelation 3:10-12 10 “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And [I will write on him] My new name.

 

[TribulationSigns]

God says:
Revelation 3:10-12 10 “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And [I will write on him] My new name.

Let test your understanding. What is the hour of trial (hour of temptation, KJV) the Lord talked about?

 

[Sel@h]

Let test your understanding. What is the hour of trial (hour of temptation, KJV) the Lord talked about?

Don’t you know?

 

[TribulationSigns]

DUDE!!!!! You'r not getting it....JESUS DIDN'T LEAVE ON A WHITE HORSE LIKE HE RETURNS IN REV 19. PERIOD.

This is precisely what you have misunderstood.

Christ did not "leave from Earth" on a white horse. After His ascension and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, He went forth “conquering, and to conquer” (Revelation 6:2) through the testimony of His faithful witnesses, securing His elect until they are sealed (Revelation 7:1–4).

After this, the red, black, and pale horses follow, portraying the judgments associated with the great tribulation. Then in the End, the SAME conquering Christ appears on the white horse in Revelation 19, accompanied by the Saints at the Last Trump.

You are confusing symbolic imagery with a literal departure. Read the text carefully before insisting anyone who doesn’t understand. It is YOU who do not understand.

Selah.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Don’t you know?

I knew which is why I asked you a question to see if your understanding is biblically. Stop stonewalling.

Again, what is the hour of trail refers to?

 

[Sel@h]

I knew which is why I asked you a question to see if your understanding is biblically. Stop stonewalling.

Again, what is the hour of trail refers to?

You know what, I really don’t think you know much, so here, I’ll post the scripture for you:

Revelation 3:10-13 (NKJV) 10 “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And [I will write on him] My new name. 13 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’

@rebuilder 454

 

[Sel@h]

I knew which is why I asked you a question to see if your understanding is biblically. Stop stonewalling.

Again, what is the hour of trail refers to?

Hour of trail?

 

[Sel@h]

@rebuilder 454

Revelation 3:5 (NKJV) “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Revelation 7:13-17 (NKJV) 13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 “Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 “They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 “for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”