crowns, no crowns, Revelation 17, Revelation 12, Revelation 13

[Davy]

Davy,

In Revelation 20:1-3, Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit upon Jesus's return.

Differently, the beast-king and the false prophet will be cast in the lake of fire, in Revelation 19:20, at Jesus's return.


The beast-king and false prophet are exceptions. They will be cast into the lake of fire the day of Jesus's return.

And because the 'beast' and 'false prophet' go into the "lake of fire" EARLY, prior to the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign, it means what?

It means that 'beast' and 'false prophet' of Rev.16:13 are ROLES that Satan will play. Those ROLES are for this present world, at the END only. That's why Jesus destroys them at His coming.

As I have said, God's Word reveals NO flesh-born go into the "lake of fire" until AFTER... Christ's thousand years reign. That means even Judas Iscariot is not judged and sentenced to that "lake of fire" yet.

 

[Davy]

Revelation 13:1-2 is the beast kingdom.

Revelation 13:3 then turns the focus to beast-king as one of the heads mortally wounded, but healed.

No, the "seven heads" are part of the beast KINGDOM.

The heads are NOT the beast-king.

Jesus showed the "seven heads" are "seven mountains" per Rev.17.

 

[William Barton]

Suggestion:

"Beast" (Greek θηριον, diminutive form of θηρ) that rises up out of the sea (Revelation 13:2) is apparently a cherub, who allies with a human ruler.

"Woman riding the beast" (Revelation 17:3-5) = city of Babylon (lots of money, which irritates the human ruler, so he attacks the city, see Revelation 18:1-24).

 

[Douggg]

And because the 'beast' and 'false prophet' go into the "lake of fire" EARLY, prior to the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign, it means what?

Means that the beast and the false prophet will already be in the lake of fire when Satan is cast into the lake of fire after the thousand years.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[Douggg]

And because the 'beast' and 'false prophet' go into the "lake of fire" EARLY, prior to the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign, it means what?

It means that 'beast' and 'false prophet' of Rev.16:13 are ROLES that Satan will play. Those ROLES are for this present world, at the END only. That's why Jesus destroys them at His coming.

Satan will not play either of those roles. Satan will empower and influence both of those persons though.

 

[Douggg]

No, the "seven heads" are part of the beast KINGDOM.

The heads are NOT the beast-king.

All of the seven heads are not the beast-king. Just one of the seven heads will become the beast-king.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am not going to get into the Greek grammar issues.

So, it's too much trouble and not worth your time to make the effort to see what the original text actually means even though you have the time to create all your charts? Are you afraid of what you might discover by actually digging deeper to see the meaning of the original Greek text?

 

[Douggg]

"Beast" = nasty person, acts like an animal, has not come yet, but will come. We call him Anti-Christ.

When referring to a very evil person, then yes - being a "beast" is descriptive of the person.

 

[Douggg]

So, it's too much trouble and not worth your time to make the effort to see what the original text actually means even though you have the time to create all your charts? Are you afraid of what you might discover by actually digging deeper to see the meaning of the original Greek text?

Original ? Did Moses speak and write in Greek ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Original ?

Yeah. Do you not know what that word means?

Did Moses speak and write in Greek ?

The book of Revelation was written in Greek and something from that book is what was being discussed. Try to keep up, Dougggggg.

 

[Douggg]

Yeah. Do you not know what that word means?


The book of Revelation was written in Greek and something from that book is what was being discussed. Try to keep up, Dougggggg.

Show one of your end times time line charts that reflects your re-interpretation of the bible.

 

[ewq1938]

"he" is a pronoun. Not a noun. "he" refers to a male.

The noun is neuter in the Greek manuscripts, not a masculine noun so how is a neuter noun a "he"? Any masculine pronouns for that beast do not exist in the originals. If I called your DVD player a "he" does that make it male or would I be wrong about it's pronoun?

 

[ewq1938]

All of the seven heads are not the beast-king. Just one of the seven heads will become the beast-king.

Mountains do not become human kings.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Show one of your end times time line charts that reflects your re-interpretation of the bible.

I only interpret the Bible once. No re-interpretation. You'll have to pay me to see my end times time line charts. I don't work for free.

 

[Douggg]

The noun is neuter in the Greek manuscripts, not a masculine noun so how is a neuter noun a "he"? Any masculine pronouns for that beast do not exist in the originals. If I called your DVD player a "he" does that make it male or would I be wrong about it's pronoun?

We were talking about the "him" in Revelation 13:4-8.

I just went over to the biblehub.com site and looked through the translations over there. And took a look at Revelation 13:6.

Some of the translations had "it" instead of "he". So there is a difference.

I am sticking with the kjv.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I just went over to the biblehub.com site and looked through the translations over there. And took a look at Revelation 13:6.

Some of the translations had "it" instead of "he". So there is a difference.

I am sticking with the kjv.

But, you're also sticking with the false idea that a symbolic entity being called "he" or "him" means that it's referring to a literal man. Yet, the symbolic entity called a woman and called Babylon is referred to as "she" and "her", but obviously does not represent a literal woman.

Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

So, obviously, a symbolic entity being referred to as "he" or "she" or as "him" or "her" doesn't mean it's referring to a human being.

 

[Douggg]

But, you're also sticking with the false idea that a symbolic entity being called "he" or "him" means that it's referring to a literal man.

He is a literal man, called the beast because of his intense evil.

Yet, the symbolic entity called a woman and called Babylon is referred to as "she" and "her", but obviously does not represent a literal woman.

The woman (whore) was not called Babylon. The inscription in Revelation 17:5 written on her head was a reference to the source that influenced her.

Babylon the great itself is a reference to the mystical kingdom of Satan and his angels.

The woman (whore) is a reference to the Vatican, which, in Revelation 17:16 the Vatican will be burnt to the ground by the ten kings that align themselves with the beast-king.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He is a literal man, called the beast because of his intense evil.

No. You think the beast being called "him" means it's a literal man, but I'm showing you why that's not the case.

The woman (whore) was not called Babylon.

The woman and Babylon are the same and I've shown you this before. It's obvious to everyone but you. You stubbornly refuse to accept what the text obviously indicates. But, that is beside the point I'm making here, which is that a symbolic entity referred to as "she" or "her" does not refer to a literal woman. So, just because a symbolic entity is referred to as "he" or "him" doesn't mean it's referring to a literal man.

Babylon the great itself is a reference to the mystical kingdom of Satan and his angels.

The woman (whore) is a reference to the Vatican, which, in Revelation 17:16 the Vatican will be burnt to the ground by the ten kings that align themselves with the beast-king.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing about something dumb like that and allow you to sidetrack the discussion and go away from the point I'm making. The symbolic entity Babylon is referred to as "she" and "her", yet does not represent a literal woman. So, the idea that the beast represents a literal man just because the beast may be referred to as "he" or "him" is not valid.

 

[Douggg]

So, the idea that the beast represents a literal man just because the beast may be referred to as "he" or "him" is not valid.

How much clearer can this verse be ? The beast in Revelation 13 that will be worshiped will be a literal man.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[Davy]

Means that the beast and the false prophet will already be in the lake of fire when Satan is cast into the lake of fire after the thousand years.

That's one way to look at it. The important thing though is the fact that on the day of Christ's 2nd coming that "beast" and "false prophet" Roles are destroyed, and Christ's literal physical Kingdom on earth is established instead.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.