The Deception of Tithing and Paid Pastors
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Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
A rehash of an old and tired previous theme of yours.
What do people reap today? Cash. The cash can be converted into food for use to meet the needs of others.
It is the heart's response that is important. I probably give around 23.333333% of my reaped income to the work of the Lord. Sadly, many people tithe because they are not interested in reaping souls and they pay others to do this task instead of them doing it themselves.
Now I only plate around 5% on a Sunday to help keep the "Church" financial the rest is tithed to provide meat for those who are poor, both financially and spiritually. I also provide scholarships and a maintenance living wage for three students from the mountains etc. to be taught at a theological college because they cannot afford the fees. I also paid for health checks and hearing aids for a pastor so that he could continue his pastoring and evangelical activities in his community. Another time I provided blankets and warm jackets for poor people because they had lost these things in floods.
Giving a tithe is not about the giving, but it's about us trusting God to help us stretch what we keep for ourselves to satisfy our own personal needs. That is the test of tithing.
What do people reap today? Cash. The cash can be converted into food for use to meet the needs of others.
It is the heart's response that is important. I probably give around 23.333333% of my reaped income to the work of the Lord. Sadly, many people tithe because they are not interested in reaping souls and they pay others to do this task instead of them doing it themselves.
Now I only plate around 5% on a Sunday to help keep the "Church" financial the rest is tithed to provide meat for those who are poor, both financially and spiritually. I also provide scholarships and a maintenance living wage for three students from the mountains etc. to be taught at a theological college because they cannot afford the fees. I also paid for health checks and hearing aids for a pastor so that he could continue his pastoring and evangelical activities in his community. Another time I provided blankets and warm jackets for poor people because they had lost these things in floods.
Giving a tithe is not about the giving, but it's about us trusting God to help us stretch what we keep for ourselves to satisfy our own personal needs. That is the test of tithing.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
I'm only interested in whether tithing is biblical for Christians. I don't have a personal grudge against any church or pastor. Tithing is a widely accepted practice. But is it biblical? Did Jesus and the apostles teach tithing as our giving model?
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
I found this to show you what I meant.
Ephesians 3:10 - so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
The vision I saw that was given to me, showed me the text in the old testament that says Tithe. So, God still calls it a tithe.
NayborBear
Active Member
Have to disagree with your statement here.
No? They wouldn't have! Even IF they could have afforded to!
Do you remember what Saul of Tarsus did before his conversion?
Saul would have LOVED a nice confined structure. When 1 or 2 "visits?"
Would have got 'em ALL!
So they? For the "survival" of the FAITH?
Were FORCED to "meet in secret!"
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
We need to support the church, I have no problem with that.
A full time pastor should be supported financially, a labourer deserves a wage.
My issue is: The Tithe is being used putting a guilt trip on people, plus it's not in the NT.
Just because it's in the OT does not mean it is for today.
There are lots of things in the OT that do not apply for today.
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Give freely as the Holy Spirit directs you.
Some time I give over 10%, other times less.
Many times I give elsewhere to support the Gospel message.
NayborBear
Active Member
It could well be said that at some Places of worship tithing is, to varying degrees, more EXPECTED than other places of worship. Whereas SOME it's more mandated! They'll even give out "tithing envelopes" to either put a check or cash into. And?......Give you a form for your "tax deductible" contributions.
Is it Biblically commanded TO tithe?
Well?..........Kinda! Although not outright commanded. More of an "understanding" to.
Having said that, however?
I'd be very wary of "preacher pressure" or "peer pressure" in making you FEEL like you MUST tithe, or face ridicule or expulsion for not tithing?
If you're being confronted with this?
I'd wipe the dust off your shoes, leave and don't look back!
Because YOU don't wanna be associated with the likes of THEM!
PS95
Well-Known Member
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Yes, unfortunately, the path of following Jesus has led into "the depths of the earth" as it were.
The question then becomes, is do we support those who go into the depths were a fee is required? Not all depths require a fee, but some certainly do. For instance, sending missionaries often only includes fees to support travel and housing among those being ministered to--which of course is a far cry from first class fares, private jets, and luxury hotels. Actually, it may be more appropriate to wine and dine with sinners, that some may be saved.
But yes, the popular model is professional salaries for those put upon a pedestal...which goes way, way back, at least in part.
What to do?
I once received a degree form a college whose model was to train up satellite training centers, who knew that the day would come when those they had trained would become their competitors. Their solution? When that day came--shut the college down--and so they did (I was in the last class).
What that would look like in our modern world for churches...is to begin as a startup, with the message (not unlike many missionary models) that you are there to train until they are self-sufficient, then move on to another new area in need of the same. What?!--no more mega churches, no more rock band worship "service" (performances), no more "gifts?!" Yeah, probably not--well, maybe gifts.
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Saw this today: -
“We do not need a new and modern gospel for a new and modern age; if it’s new, it’s not true.” - Adrian Rogers
“We do not need a new and modern gospel for a new and modern age; if it’s new, it’s not true.” - Adrian Rogers
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
I know the original tithe was mentioned with Abraham to Melchizedek and Jacob in Gen. 28:22, before being named Israel. It existed in the ancient nations also. Everything we own comes from God, and God gives it to us, and this brings up the next point. Romans 14:12 - each of us shall give account of himself to God.
What are we to do with what God gives to us, since it all belongs to God? The Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9:11 - if we have sown spiritual things for you, is is a great thing if we reap your material things? and verse 14 -even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.
This indicates that the Lord has commanded Christians to give to hear preaching and also, by extension, Sunday school classes. Since all we have comes from the Lord, he expects some of what He gives us to go towards the gospel/preaching.
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