Do we have free will or are we predestined?

[Armour of God]

That accusation doesn’t address anything I actually said.

Disagreeing with your reasoning is not the same as being unable to accept your opinion. I’ve acknowledged multiple times that you’re free to hold your view.

What I’m asking for is evidence for a specific claim you made about my position.

I asked you to show where I ever said, implied, or suggested that I expect anyone to accept Maria Valtorta’s writings as the word of God.

Saying “you referred to her 15 times” is not an example of me making that claim. It’s simply counting references.

Referencing a source repeatedly does not mean I expect others to treat it as Scripture. It means I referenced it. Nothing more.

If you want to stand by your accusation, then please quote the specific statement where I required anyone to accept her writings as the word of God.

If you cannot provide such a statement, then the claim was unfounded.

It's not just me that has rejected the words of that mystic, several people have.
You need to work on your problem of accepting other people's opinions instead of crying about it

 

[quietthinker]

It's not just me that has rejected the words of that mystic, several people have.
You need to work on your problem of accepting other people's opinions instead of crying about it

The rationale used in your posts is faulty AoG.
Here are two examples from your immediate post;

1. Relying on numbers to give your view credibility does not give it credibility.
2. Your charge of Mathetria having a problem is a projection. It is you who have the problem with Mathetria; it is you who is crying about it.

 

[MatthewG]

I think people like to try to bend peoples will over to themselves...

 

[Armour of God]

The rationale used in your posts is faulty AoG.
Here are two examples from your immediate post;

1. Relying on numbers to give your view credibility does not give it credibility.
2. Your charge of Mathetria having a problem is a projection. It is you who have the problem with Mathetria; it is you who is crying about it.

I accept her opinion dispite our disagreement.
She doesn't accept mine.

The bottom line is that I, along with some others on here, reject the words of mystic Maria which has been quoted by Mathetria.
There is nothing faulty about that, you either believe the mystic or you don't. I don't

 

[Armour of God]

I think people like to try to bend peoples will over to themselves...

Sometimes people will disagree and have a different option. It takes humility to accept that, a humility some people simply don't have.

 

[Debp]

@Mathētria You seem almost obsessed with the mystic. We need to be careful so we don't make idols out of mere human beings.

 

[quietthinker]

I accept her opinion dispite our disagreement.
She doesn't accept mine.

The bottom line is that I, along with some others on here, reject the words of mystic Maria which has been quoted by Mathetria.
There is nothing faulty about that, you either believe the mystic or you don't. I don't

Reject them if you choose; nobody is twisting your arm. If you think the words of certain mystics are wrong, why do you feel threatened by them? You could just shrug them off and introduce greater wisdom if you have it.

 

[Armour of God]

@Mathētria You seem almost obsessed with the mystic. We need to be careful so we don't make idols out of mere human beings.

Reject them if you choose; nobody is twisting your arm. If you think the words of certain mystics are wrong, why do you feel threatened by them? You could just shrug them off and introduce greater wisdom if you have it.

I'm not threatened by her words,
lol, that's hilarious

She believes Jesus spoke to a woman named Maria in the 40s and 50s.

But she just cannot accept that some of us do not believe that.

It's a matter of humility, accepting the opinions of others.

 

[quietthinker]

I'm not threatened by her words,
lol, that's hilarious

She believes Jesus spoke to a woman named Maria in the 40s and 50s.

But she just cannot accept that some of us do not believe that.

It's a matter of humility, accepting the opinions of others.

I think the communications of Mathetria have been very gracious. I also think your responses are of a nature that indicate you do feel threatened.
You say, 'It's a matter of humility, accepting the opinions of others.' Can you not do that?

 

[Armour of God]

I think the communications of Mathetria have been very gracious. I also think your responses are of a nature that indicate you do feel threatened.
You say, 'It's a matter of humility, accepting the opinions of others.' Can you not do that?

Threatened... Hahaha your funny
Maybe your the threatened one.

Like I said already, I accept her opinion.
I've said that several times now.
She can't accept others opinions.

Like @Debp said, she's just obsessed with mystic Maria

 

[quietthinker]

Threatened... Hahaha your funny
Maybe your the threatened one.

Like I said already, I accept her opinion.
I've said that several times now.
She can't accept others opinions.

Like @Debp said, she's just obsessed with mystic Maria

AoG, you say you accept Mathetria's opinion all the while fighting it. That's as obvious as falling off a log to me....but you do have the right to live within your denial.​

 

[Armour of God]

AoG, you say you accept Mathetria's opinion all the while fighting it. That's as obvious as falling off a log to me....but you do have the right to live within your denial.​

Nothing wrong with debating.
She has her option which I accept.
And I have mine which she doesn't accept.

But I sense much resentment in you.
Your still bitter and twisted that I made fun of your beloved prime minister. That's all it is.

 

[Grailhunter]

A lot of false beliefs out there.....
The belief that all of reality is predestined, is false.
That we have nothing to do with our salvation, is false.
The scriptures say.......
God has the power to predestine but it is not a norm.
No one comes to Christ unless we are called.....many are called but few are chosen...
Many are called, but few are chosen” highlights that while God extends His invitation to salvation to all, only those who respond in faith and obedience are truly accepted.
We have to choose to believe in Christ.
We have to choose to be good and do good.
You are, what you do.

 

[St. SteVen]

@Mathētria You seem almost obsessed with the mystic. We need to be careful so we don't make idols out of mere human beings.

That's not fair.
@Mathētria was very clear in her citation of the quote.
She has not expected anyone to accept it as "the word of God". (Bible)

No one has brought a single complaint about the mystic.
Other than she is quoting Jesus outside the canon.

@Mathētria is correct in saying that nothing about the quote is UNBIBLICAL.
Which means, it does not conflict with the canon.

The objections seem to be driven by this idea that Jesus is DONE speaking to the church.
Or that Jesus CAN'T speak outside of the canon.

 

[St. SteVen]

Nothing wrong with debating.
She has her option which I accept.
And I have mine which she doesn't accept.

But I sense much resentment in you.
Your still bitter and twisted that I made fun of your beloved prime minister. That's all it is.

Looks to me like you owe a couple of apologies.

 

[St. SteVen]

Like @Debp said, she's just obsessed with mystic Maria

You're the one who stood up in the canoe.
@Mathētria is trying to get you to sit down before you capsize the boat.

 

[MatthewG]

I think people like to try to bend peoples will over to themselves...

There are many people who love this type of power.


When it comes to free will or are we predestined.

It's like someone suggest that Jesus saves them, but doesn't save martha or mary, cause they were not predestined or chosen...

Think about a family dinner scene.

Dad, Mom, maybe 2 sons and a daughter all eating together. And Dad says to the 2 sons, boy Im glad were predestined and chosen by God, arent you mom and daughter?

Like... you see the problematic rising of improperly even starting to address something to begin with.

First, figure out what predestined means - and maybe figure out - who it was that were going to be predestined to be saved by Jesus when he was to come back... and these predestined people had a choice to either - deny God and Jesus, or accept him....

Everyone in the world has free will.

Some people - preachers, family members, co-workers, people in general out there in the world - will try to bend your will and ways towards them, and not allowing people to think and choose for themselves....


Don't get trapped in the whole "predestined curse, of society or culture." But in some sense people who have "generational curses" are stimming from repeated actions of what was done to the person causing the action itself... for the long haul when looked at it does seem that when cycles of abuse start to show up, it does a whole lot of damage to not only oneself, but to other people if they are not able to address themselves responsibly and make better actions towards the greater of not harming others.


I dont really believe in predestination as a concept to like live my in my life... One day I know I will die, and apparently when reading the bible there is talking of raising up the spiritual person which is you with Christ in you and then when you build up on him in the spiritual gleannings of life - by living the Spirit of Christ - throughout all your years it will be something worthwhile, it will be all the works of Christ in you done by you allowing him to flow in and through you now today...

Those are just some of my thoughts. I try to be affirmative when talking, doesn't mean I am always right, I can be wrong but I do want to share these things cause I do find them highly important at least in becoming aware of.

 

[Debp]

That's not fair.
@Mathētria was very clear in her citation of the quote.
She has not expected anyone to accept it as "the word of God". (Bible)

No one has brought a single complaint about the mystic.
Other than she is quoting Jesus outside the canon.

@Mathētria is correct in saying that nothing about the quote is UNBIBLICAL.
Which means, it does not conflict with the canon.

The objections seem to be driven by this idea that Jesus is DONE speaking to the church.
Or that Jesus CAN'T speak outside of the canon.

You are now comparing apples to oranges. @Armour of God and I are noticing @Mathētria seems to have an obsession with the mystic. It is dangerous to be so obsessed.

I remember this person either from this forum or another forum where I'm a member. All of their topics or posts were about the mystic.

 

[St. SteVen]

You are now comparing apples to oranges. @Armour of God and I are noticing @Mathētria seems to have an obsession with the mystic. It is dangerous to be so obsessed.

Thank you.
I see no obsession. (at this point)
She is harmless amid these attacks.
1) She cited her source.
2) She expects no one to accept it as the word of God. (Jesus)
3) She raises good points about whether we should accept extra-biblical prophecy.

It was good that you called attention to the quote. I think that was enough.
The balance of the debate was contentious and narrow-minded.

 

[shepherdsword]

Do we have free will or are we predestined?

Does God choose us or do we choose God?

Is salvation predestined or is it free will?

Are we predestined to sin or is it free will?

Are our jobs predestined or was it free will?

Is what we eat predestined or is it free will?

I think there are bible verses that support both free will and predestination but I'll let you guys give your opinions and present the bible verses that support it

Both

We have a free will but are predestined to several things by the foreknowledge of God.

Knowing the result of our freewill decision we have been predestined by God to be adopted:
Eph 1:5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

He foreknew our decision and predestinated us to be conformed to His image:
Ro 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


God predetermines no one to go to heaven or hell. He just foreknows our decision by His omnipotent forsight.