Of what value is retribution against humankind to God? - Love your enemies?

[David in NJ]

Of what value is retribution against humankind to God? - Love your enemies?​

No matter what your view is on the final judgement/evaluation
of humankind,what would be the value of retribution against humankind?
What does it accomplish?

Three views of the final judgment:
- Damnationism (eternal punishment)
- Annihilationism (destruction of the wicked)
- Universalism (ultimate redemption)

Jesus taught us to love our enemies.
What should He do with His own?

God does not have "retribution for mankind"

Genesis 1:26 - "Let US make man in OUR Image according to OUR Likeness"

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that He gave the Son, the only begotten, so that everyone believing in Him shall not perish but shall have eternal life."

The LORD Jesus Christ will Judge mankind for their evil, which they loved more then the Truth that would of Saved them.

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

 

[amigo de christo]

God does not have "retribution for mankind"

Genesis 1:26 - "Let US make man in OUR Image according to OUR Likeness"

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that He gave the Son, the only begotten, so that everyone believing in Him shall not perish but shall have eternal life."

The LORD Jesus Christ will Judge mankind for their evil, which they loved more then the Truth that would of Saved them.

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

steven accuses the creator . HE accuses the righteous judgment of the HOLY GOD .
And as we can all see , he preaches universalisms in clusivism
RATHER THAN THE ONLY NAME , JESUS CHRIST , with the reminder ye must beleive .
A false goodness he d oes teach and he removes the severity of GOD .
T hat is a real simple truth i just said . I have long watched this man and even tried to help him .
FRIEND he is a well known deconstructionist . HE admits it . He might say some of it has gone too far
BUT I SAY the moment it began WAS TOO FAR . WE S HOULD NEVER have tried to decontruct .
WE S HOULD have simply taught the words of TRUTH and BELIEVED the words of TRUTH IN that BIBLE .
TO ME , ITS LET GOD BE TRUE but ev ery man a liar . And that is HOW it sh ould have b een for us all .
AND IT IS for the sh eep . WE sheep CLING to the words of GOD and shall test all words of men ag ainst HIS WORDS .
And when the words of men omit , twist , try and change the words of GOD , GUESS WHO THE SHEEP WONT BE HEEDING .
IF ya said the one t rying to omit , twist and change , YOU SPOT ON RIGHT . SHEEP love TRUTH , for SHEEP
have the LOVE OF GOD shed upon their hearts .

 

[Jack]

steven accuses the creator . HE accuses the righteous judgment of the HOLY GOD .
And as we can all see , he preaches universalisms in clusivism
RATHER THAN THE ONLY NAME , JESUS CHRIST , with the reminder ye must beleive .
A false goodness he d oes teach and he removes the severity of GOD .
T hat is a real simple truth i just said . I have long watched this man and even tried to help him .
FRIEND he is a well known deconstructionist . HE admits it . He might say some of it has gone too far
BUT I SAY the moment it began WAS TOO FAR . WE S HOULD NEVER have tried to decontruct .
WE S HOULD have simply taught the words of TRUTH and BELIEVED the words of TRUTH IN that BIBLE .
TO ME , ITS LET GOD BE TRUE but ev ery man a liar . And that is HOW it sh ould have b een for us all .
AND IT IS for the sh eep . WE sheep CLING to the words of GOD and shall test all words of men ag ainst HIS WORDS .
And when the words of men omit , twist , try and change the words of GOD , GUESS WHO THE SHEEP WONT BE HEEDING .
IF ya said the one t rying to omit , twist and change , YOU SPOT ON RIGHT . SHEEP love TRUTH , for SHEEP
have the LOVE OF GOD shed upon their hearts .

I think STV has a horrible Judgment Day ahead. But he's not in Hell yet. There may be hope for STV.

 

[amigo de christo]

God does not have "retribution for mankind"

Genesis 1:26 - "Let US make man in OUR Image according to OUR Likeness"

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that He gave the Son, the only begotten, so that everyone believing in Him shall not perish but shall have eternal life."

The LORD Jesus Christ will Judge mankind for their evil, which they loved more then the Truth that would of Saved them.

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

Go on my friend f eel free to ask me any question you like .
Ask me , AIMGO do you REALLY beleive this stuff in genesis that says the earth was created in just six literal days .
AND ME ANSWER IS , HECK YES I DO . let the world laugh at me , its wisdom is foolishness with GOD .
The carnal mind cannot receive it . BUT THE SHEEP CAN AND DO recieve it .
GO on ask me , hey amigo
DO you really believe this crazy event about a whale being able to swallow a man
and the man be spit out by it . AGAIN HECK YES I DO . THERE IS NOTHING impossible with GOD . AND IT IS WRITTEN
in said bible , IT BE TRUTH and not some fab le .
IN other words , I BELEIVE GOD . I BELEIVE HIS WORDS . no matter how miraculous
and odd it might seem for some of them events in said bible . OH THEY DID HAPPEN . GOD IS NOT MAN that HE cAN LIE
and paul didnt say HEY MOST of the scrips are good for us . HE and peter said ALL SCRIPTURE is inpsired by GOD .
AND GOD cannot lie . But reader beware , cause man can and many DO .

 

[amigo de christo]

I think STV has a horrible Judgment Day ahead. But he's not in Hell yet. There may be hope for STV.

IF HE REPENT . if not , i shudder in t otal fear for him .

 

[Wick Stick]

DO you really believe this crazy event about a whale being able to swallow a man
and the man be spit out by it . AGAIN HECK YES I DO .

If you're going to go full-literal, then it wasn't a whale. The Bible says "great fish" - דּג גּדול

Jonah 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

There are probably some translations out there that say 'whale.' If so, the translator has taken some liberties, and you should perhaps find a more reliable translation.

 

[David in NJ]

If you're going to go full-literal, then it wasn't a whale. The Bible says "great fish" - דּג גּדול

Jonah 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

There are probably some translations out there that say 'whale.' If so, the translator has taken some liberties, and you should perhaps find a more reliable translation.

A whale is a mammal that lives, eats and reproduces under water but breathes above water.

Since it LIVES in the WATER, it can be classified as a 'fish' = Genesis chapter 1

 

[Lizbeth]

The return of Jesus is a rescue mission for his people because humankind is about to implode by its own hand.
Here is how I picture it, you might see it differently.

The return of Jesus could take some time ie, from when first it comes to human awareness. Something with be noticed from a distance approaching the Earth. It will be interpreted as an alien invasion from outer space. The nations will train their nuclear weapons towards it, eventually using them. People will be freaking. It will set in motion the destruction of the planet with all its habitants ... apart from those who will meet him in the air as 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 describes.

Yes there will be burning from nuclear arsenals which man has used.

Maybe you see this explanation as fantastical and maybe it is. In any case this is how I see the HELL you refer to so often Jack.

John 10:10 tells us it is the thief who has come to steal, kill and destroy. Jesus says his mission is to give abundant life.

I wouldn't wonder if there will be nuclear conflagration in the end, however, the hell/gehenna that Jesus referred to destroys both body and soul. And the lake of fire was originally prepared for angelic beings, not the flesh of mortal man. I believe it has to do with our God being a consuming fire. We best be hid in the cleft of the Rock when He returns in ALL His glory....sheltered under the shadow/shade of His wings as it were, from the fire of His wrath.

 

[Lizbeth]

If you're going to go full-literal, then it wasn't a whale. The Bible says "great fish" - דּג גּדול

Jonah 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

There are probably some translations out there that say 'whale.' If so, the translator has taken some liberties, and you should perhaps find a more reliable translation.

Whale sharks are very large and they are fish with gills. If the one the Lord "prepared" was having digestive problems and full of gas/air, it would have allowed Jonah to breathe when he was inside it. At any rate........if God said it, we can count on it having happened one way or the other.

 

[Jack]

I wouldn't wonder if there will be nuclear conflagration in the end, however, the hell/gehenna that Jesus referred to destroys both body and soul.

BILLIONS of humans will wish they don't exist! 'Death' NEVER means 'cease to exist' in the Bible.

Rev 21 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER ....

And the lake of fire was originally prepared for angelic beings, not the flesh of mortal man. I believe it has to do with our God being a consuming fire. We best be hid in the cleft of the Rock when He returns in ALL His glory....sheltered under the shadow/shade of His wings as it were, from the fire of His wrath.

Luke 16:22-28 The rich man died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hell, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

[Wick Stick]

Whale sharks are very large and they are fish with gills. If the one the Lord "prepared" was having digestive problems and full of gas/air, it would have allowed Jonah to breathe when he was inside it. At any rate........if God said it, we can count on it having happened one way or the other.

The miracle in the book of Jonah is not that Jonah survived inside a fish/whale for 3 days. He didn't. Jonah died.

Jonah 2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, 2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, [and] thou heardest my voice. 3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me. 4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple. 5 The waters compassed me about, [even] to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head. 6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars [was] about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

The miracle is that Jonah was resurrected. That's how it pictures the death and resurrection of Jesus.

 

[Anchorite]

There is no retribution by God against humans.

But there is sin, refusal to repent, and judgment.

If a person decides to reject God, their wish to be separated from Him is granted.

What torments the God hater in hell is their own conscience, realizing they were evil, and they preferred fleeting pleasures over a joyful eternity in heaven.

 

[Lizbeth]

The miracle in the book of Jonah is not that Jonah survived inside a fish/whale for 3 days. He didn't. Jonah died.

Jonah 2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, 2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, [and] thou heardest my voice. 3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me. 4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple. 5 The waters compassed me about, [even] to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head. 6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars [was] about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

The miracle is that Jonah was resurrected. That's how it pictures the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Maybe, unless it was that he thought for sure he was a goner and the whole thing was a picture of the death/resurrection without necessarily being literal.

 

[Anchorite]

The miracle in the book of Jonah is not that Jonah survived inside a fish/whale for 3 days. He didn't. Jonah died.

Jonah 2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, 2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, [and] thou heardest my voice. 3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me. 4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple. 5 The waters compassed me about, [even] to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head. 6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars [was] about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

The miracle is that Jonah was resurrected. That's how it pictures the death and resurrection of Jesus.

The scriptures do not say that Jonah died and was resurrected. Jonah had a near death experience.

The text states, "Then Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from the belly of the fish," which suggests he was alive to offer the prayer.

Jonah uses intense language in his prayer (e.g., "out of the belly of Sheol," "the pit"), which can be interpreted as a metaphorical description of being in the fish's belly rather than literal death.

The fish was "prepared" by God specifically to save Jonah from drowning, not to act as a tomb.

Jonah’s prayer in Jonah 2:2: “From the depths of the grave I called for help.” The use of Sheol, the Hebrew term for “the grave,” could mean that Jonah actually died. Yet the words “the depths of the grave,” seen as a poetic turn of phrase, could easily refer to an agonizing or horrifying experience.

Jonah’s hopeless situation was illustrative of Jesus’ death; Jonah’s sudden appearance at Nineveh was illustrative of Jesus’ resurrection. The three days was an additional similarity. Jonah returned from the edge of death; Jesus, who is greater than Jonah, returned from actual death.

Analogies do not require absolute agreement in every detail.

While Jesus likened his own future three-day death to Jonah's time in the fish (Matthew 12:40), it does not require that Jonah actually died, only that he was in the fish for that duration of time.

 

[David in NJ]

The scriptures do not say that Jonah died and was resurrected. Jonah had a near death experience.

The text states, "Then Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from the belly of the fish," which suggests he was alive to offer the prayer.

Jonah uses intense language in his prayer (e.g., "out of the belly of Sheol," "the pit"), which can be interpreted as a metaphorical description of being in the fish's belly rather than literal death.

The fish was "prepared" by God specifically to save Jonah from drowning, not to act as a tomb.

Jonah’s prayer in Jonah 2:2: “From the depths of the grave I called for help.” The use of Sheol, the Hebrew term for “the grave,” could mean that Jonah actually died. Yet the words “the depths of the grave,” seen as a poetic turn of phrase, could easily refer to an agonizing or horrifying experience.

Jonah’s hopeless situation was illustrative of Jesus’ death; Jonah’s sudden appearance at Nineveh was illustrative of Jesus’ resurrection. The three days was an additional similarity. Jonah returned from the edge of death; Jesus, who is greater than Jonah, returned from actual death.

Analogies do not require absolute agreement in every detail.

While Jesus likened his own future three-day death to Jonah's time in the fish (Matthew 12:40), it does not require that Jonah actually died, only that he was in the fish for that duration of time.

The text states, "Then Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from the belly of the fish," which suggests he was alive to offer the prayer."

This sentence dictates and solidifies the location of Jonah when he prayed = thus still alive inside the fish.

 

[amigo de christo]

If you're going to go full-literal, then it wasn't a whale. The Bible says "great fish" - דּג גּדול

Jonah 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

There are probably some translations out there that say 'whale.' If so, the translator has taken some liberties, and you should perhaps find a more reliable translation.

okay it was a great fish then . either way it did happen .
The carnal mind of man cannot grasp such an e vent . But the spiritual mind knows full well
Nothing is impossible with GOD . And if it be written in the bible then it did happen .
You really think THE VERY GOD who b y merely speaking spoke all that is into existance
CANNOT prepare a fish to swallow a man .
Or perhaps the same GOD who had a woman concieve after NINETY . Just cause
it seems impossible , IT AINT WITH GOD .
And it clearly says the first morning and evening were the FIRST day and then etc .
YOU really think GOD cannot simply speak and it happen JUST like that . OH but it can and oh but it did .
MY mind is fully persauded that it is G OD that cannot lie . man can . no doubt that man can lie .
No doubt that the carnal mind would see this as impossible events .
BUT THIS SHEEP , MY FAITH BE IN GOD . AND HIS WORDS and EVERY ONE of them IS absolute T RUTH
and absolutely true . CHILDLIKE FAITH .
JESUS never said lest ye become high wise scholars who heed evolution and science YE CANNOT enter into the KINGDOM .
HE said LEST YE BECOME as CHILDREN . and this wee child BELIEV ES HIS G OD .

 

[amigo de christo]

The text states, "Then Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from the belly of the fish," which suggests he was alive to offer the prayer."

This sentence dictates and solidifies the location of Jonah when he prayed = thus still alive inside the fish.

LEST ye b ecome as c hildren you shall in NO WAY enter into the Kingdom of GOD .
Not lest ye become wise to the w orld and learn evolution and twist the bible to fit the fables and sciences of men
YOu wont enter into the KINGDOM of GOD .
The WISDOM of th is world is FOOLISHNESS with GOD . HE has made their wisdom VAIN and FOOLISH .
The lowly he has exalted and the high he shall cast down .
CHILD LIKE FAITH . NOT trust in high theologies and sciences of men .
CHILD LIKE FAITH .
GUESS who this child b eleives . GOD . HIS E VERY WORD . and by grace i BELEIVE .
I BELEIVE HIM . THE BIBLE .
THERE is nothing too hard for GOD . By merely speaking , simply speaking
GOD , HIS WORD , created ALL that was and is . Ev ery star to every planet in perfect rotation .
IT AINT TOO HARD for THAT GOD to keep a man alive in a whale .
TO cause a woman at ninety to concieve and give birth .
IF it be in that bible , THIS WEE CHILD B ELIEVES .
CHILD like faith that simply TRUSTS GOD and TAKES GOD at HIS EVERY WORD .
LET GOD be true but every man a liar . These other folks trust in world wise men , their sciences
their evolutoins , their always learning and unable to COME to THE KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH .
This sheep BELEIVES GOD . G OD . not men who twist his words . GOD . And every
WORD of GOD IS TRUTH . and the sheep live by THE WORD of GOD . And BY HIM WE DO BELEIVE TRUTH .
And every word of GOD IS T RUTH . its that simple for me my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

God does not have "retribution for mankind"

Genesis 1:26 - "Let US make man in OUR Image according to OUR Likeness"

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that He gave the Son, the only begotten, so that everyone believing in Him shall not perish but shall have eternal life."

The LORD Jesus Christ will Judge mankind for their evil, which they loved more then the Truth that would of Saved them.

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

He who Believes in JESUS is not condemned but has eternal life .
But he who believes not is CONDEMNED already .
Here is condmenation .
That JESUS came into the WORLD , THE LIGHT but men loved darkness and would not come TO the LIGHT
lest their deeds be REPROVED .
WHICH is also why we got us a NON REPROVING SIN ACCEPTING verison of another jesus
that has b een getting sold . The only problem with that one is
OH IT surely cannot save . IT be nothing more than what paul would have called another jesus .
And it surely cannot save . any jesus that contradicts TRUTH , YOU can bet IT IS NOT OF GOD , OF CHRIST . WHO IS THE TRUTH .
As is THE SPIRIT TRUTH , as are HIS WORDS TRUTH . this sheep and all sheep
shall LET GOD BE TRUE but every man a liar .

 

[Wick Stick]

The scriptures do not say that Jonah died and was resurrected. Jonah had a near death experience.

They kinda do, though.

The text states, "Then Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from the belly of the fish," which suggests he was alive to offer the prayer.

The text also states, "Out of the belly of hell cried I," which suggests that he was not alive at the time.

Jonah uses intense language in his prayer (e.g., "out of the belly of Sheol," "the pit"), which can be interpreted as a metaphorical description of being in the fish's belly rather than literal death.

This conversation is about taking the text literally. That was what amigo and I were talking about. That doesn't leave room for a metaphorical interpretation.

The fish was "prepared" by God specifically to save Jonah from drowning, not to act as a tomb.

I disagree. The fish was there to act as transportation, and as a sign to the people of Ninevah. One of the popular gods in Ninevah at the time was Dagon, who was depicted as half-fish-half-man. The LORD made their "great fish" god into a taxi for Jonah.

Jonah’s prayer in Jonah 2:2: “From the depths of the grave I called for help.” The use of Sheol, the Hebrew term for “the grave,” could mean that Jonah actually died.

I think they literally do. :)

Yet the words “the depths of the grave,” seen as a poetic turn of phrase, could easily refer to an agonizing or horrifying experience.

They could, but read the rest of the verses afterwards. There's going to have to be a LOT of poetic language to explain away all of the following:

• The waters compassed me about, [even] to the soul:
• Tehowm* closed me round about
• The weeds were wrapped about my head.
• I went down to the bottoms of the mountains;
• The earth with her bars [was] about me for ever:
• Thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

*Tehowm, aka "the deep," isn't just the bottom of the ocean. It's the abode of the drowned. We call it Davy Jones' locker. The Babylonians called it the Absu/Abyss. It's an underground dwelling for the dead.

Likewise, "the earth with her bars" doesn't suggest a rescue, it suggests Jonah went to an underground prison. This is the Greek Hades, the Biblical Hell.

The last bit states it outright. "You brought up my life from corruption." Jonah's body was already beginning to decompose, but God brought him back to life anyway.

Jonah’s hopeless situation was illustrative of Jesus’ death; Jonah’s sudden appearance at Nineveh was illustrative of Jesus’ resurrection. The three days was an additional similarity. Jonah returned from the edge of death; Jesus, who is greater than Jonah, returned from actual death.

Analogies do not require absolute agreement in every detail.

While Jesus likened his own future three-day death to Jonah's time in the fish (Matthew 12:40), it does not require that Jonah actually died, only that he was in the fish for that duration of time.

Analogies require agreement in at least one major detail.

A duration of 3 days is mundane. I could draw a hundred examples of things lasting 3 days.

A resurrection bringing a man up out of hell is extraordinary. The analogy here is resurrection, not a three-day time frame.

 

[Lambano]

The text also states, "Out of the belly of hell cried I," which suggests that he was not alive at the time.
This conversation is about taking the text literally. That was what amigo and I were talking about. That doesn't leave room for a metaphorical interpretation

Poetic license, and I don't see any compelling reason to interpret it literally.