Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

[The Light]

Rev 6, the sixth seal, which is looking forward to the second coming.

You are making that up. How are you unable to see that Jesus comes at the 6th seal for a harvest. ALL EYES SEE THE COMING OF THE LORD.

The great tribulation, when the beast is killing believers, mostly Jews, is OVER at the 6th seal. Jesus returns at the 6th seal. Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal. What can't you see? This is simple.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

After Jesus comes at the 6th seal there is a great multitude in heaven. They are there for the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Question: If the 6th seal is looking forward to the second coming and is not the second coming, when does the great multitude get to heaven for the marriage supper? You never can answer any questions with scriptural proof, it's always just what you THINK.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

You are trying to make Rev 14 fit those passages from both Rev 6 and mat 24
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT COMING.
CAN NOT BE THE SAME.

I have a question a few questions. When is the rapture of the Jews? Before the wrath of God or after the wrath of God.
When does the great multitude get to heaven? Before the wrath of God or after the wrath of God.

Do you have any scriptural proof of what you believe or is it what you THINK.

Rev 6 , rev 19, and mat 24 are COMING IN POWER AND WRATH.
THE SECOND COMING.
Rev 14 is solo Jesus SITTING ON A CLOUD.

You missed it by a mile.

Sorry, you are making things up.

The Word of God says that Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven. Wrath does not begin until the 7th seal is opened.

You still haven't figured out that when you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the first six seals.

Yes, Jesus is sitting on a cloud in Rev 14 and all eyes see Him. And there is a harvest. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. It is the JewS that are gathered from the earth BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD. The Church is gathered from heaven. Unbelievers are cast into wrath as we see below.........the very same thing that happens when the 7th seal is opened. Wrath begins.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

You really don't understand what you are reading. Your attempt to make the events of the sixth seal the same as the seventh seal is unbiblical.

When you are reading Matthew 24 do you see a harvest or do you see Jesus coming in vengeance? I see Jesus sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. That's a harvest. That is not Armageddon. If you see Armageddon when Jesus is sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth, nothing I can do.

 

[The Light]

QUOTE
"There is nothing in the Word of God about Jesus coming in power and glory in Rev 19."

Wow....you really painted yourself into a corner.

I guess you quit reading. Maybe you missed this.

" I am willing to believe anytime Jesus shows up with His angels it will be in power and glory."

Rev 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

100% power and glory
You have demonstrated that your strick word misplacement of "trib", has led you unto ridiculous beliefs, not in the bible.

I guess you missed this.

" I am willing to believe anytime Jesus shows up with His angels it will be in power and glory."

Oh boy. Beliefs not in the Bible.

At first, you tell me that Jesus does not come in power and glory at 6th seal. I listen to this over and over. Now you have changed. Now you want to make the 6th seal a forward look to the 7th seal. If you are looking for ridiculous beliefs........there it is. You could not accept what is written and believe that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal..........just like it says, or you can go with what you THINK. I'll go with the Word of God.

Mat 24
Rev 6
Rev 19
ALL HAVE JESUS COMING IN POWER AND GREAT GLORY.
AHEM..AS an avenger and judge.

I guess you missed this.


" I am willing to believe anytime Jesus shows up with His angels it will be in power and glory."

You, misplaced every one of them.
That is confusion.

Rev 14 is a coming NOT TO EARTH, BUT A GATHERING OF MAIN HARVEST JEWS.

Ok. Please explain using scripture when these people get to heaven? Of course, you are never able to answer. Always what you THINK.

It has NO TIES to Rev 19 , or mat 24.

Matthew 24 has no ties to Revelation 19. Matthew 24 is the gathering from heaven and earth immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God. Whereas Revelation 19 is the coming of Jesus at Armageddon. There is not a harvest at this time. It is the time of vengeance. Why you are unable to see this is another puzzle.

NONE.
MAT 24, REV 6 , AND REV 19, ARE ALL COMING TO EARTH IN POWER AND GREAT GLORY.
You MUST change it around to fit your misplaced timeline.
It WILL NEVER go away.
You need to rethink your methods

I don't need to change a thing. It is you that have had to change and what you have changed to is completely unscriptural. It all comes down you are unable to accept what is written and understand that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Jesus returns at the 6th seal. There is a harvest at the 6th seal as believers are not appointed to wrath. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins. Armageddon occurs at the 7th trumpet which occurs at end of the 7th seal. Simple. Just what it says.

 

[The Light]

Also ....some are trying to make a point that all were loaded the same day.
Virtually impossible.
The 7 day thingy fits

Well, you can go with what you THINK. I go with what is written.

Genesis 7
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

Your refusal to accept what is written is why you are so confused.

 

[The Light]

They do Not understand!

There are 4 Separate Occurrences.

Ok

1) the Lord descends to the clouds (still Heaven) calls up His Church (Rapture)

1. Rapture of the Church.

2) a lamb on MT Zion…
Mt tops are regularly in the Clouds.

2. Rapture of the 144,000 first fruits.

God called (holy ground), and this For the Jews Benefit.
3) a likeness, as the “Son of Man” sitting on a White Cloud” ( still heaven), that All will See.

3. Rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth at the 6th seal.

This is the Second Coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. All believers return to heaven for the marriage supper during the ONE YEAR wrath of God.

4) CHRIST JESUS, who Left Earth, returns to Earth… Jesus WITH Power (ie. Christ)…
As you said THAT is His “Return”!

4. Jesus returns for vengeance on the Day of the Lord at Armageddon at the 7th trumpet at the end of the 7th seal. Then sets His feet on the Mount of Olives...........the Second Advent.

 

[WPM]

I avoid because responding to you is a total waste of time.

I can tell when you go off the rails as pattern is always the same.

You can't respond to the scriptural facts so here comes the personal attacks.

Then you will post dozens of posts so you can claim that you are not responded to.

Listening to the blind tell me what they see is a waste of time.

You are incapable of engaging on one text. You have no proof-text. When that is shown you move to another, and another. You have nothing.

Present a text and support it with 1 more text proves your case, and corroborate it.

 

[WPM]

What is a pretrib?

In contrast to pre/Trib, What are you?

Same thing. You guys are all over the place. You cannot agree among yourselves. One is refuting the foolish arguments of the other. That is because you are all wrong.

 

[WPM]

I think preterist.
They use a totally different bible.
There is almost zero common ground with them.
Radically misguided end times baloney.
I have all of them on ignore.
They can not respectfully engage any challenge, and are nasty individuals.

You have no answer to the truth, that is why you have all run and hid. You have to. Pretrib is dead. It was given a decent burial here 12 months ago. You all run when cornered with the fact you do not have 1 proof text.

 

[WPM]

No

Ok. So, when Jesus comes that is it? It is over. We are now into eternity?

 

[WPM]

Not so.

Noah, his family and all the animals entered on the 1st Day of the 7.

For you to be correct Noah would have to enter the ark before the 7 days begin which did not happen.

The belief by many is that the Church will be in heaven before the final 7 years begins. This is not true.

The belief of misled Pretribbers. This is wrong and unbiblical. No one can prove that.

 

[Taken]

Ok

1. Rapture of the Church.


2. Rapture of the 144,000 first fruits.


3. Rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth at the 6th seal.


This is the Second Coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord.


All believers return to heaven …


for the marriage supper during the ONE YEAR wrath of God.


4. Jesus returns for vengeance on the Day of the Lord at Armageddon at the 7th trumpet at the end of the 7th seal. Then sets His feet on the Mount of Olives...........the Second Advent.

Been awhile since I had a deep study on this.
Don’t quite agree with all your points.


God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Same thing. You guys are all over the place. You cannot agree among yourselves. One is refuting the foolish arguments of the other. That is because you are all wrong.

I don’t think everyone is wrong per’se, but do think not Everyone is the same “distance” on the path.

Every topic, has so many angles, as to whom it does or does not apply and Why.

I can only know, what I have studied, how deeply I have studied, how often and for how many years…. Unknowing what others do or have done.

I see people here…with great effort trying to put things in order, trying to verify…and others, making no standing for themselves, but flipping through the Scriptures, looking for anything negative they attempt to use as a gaslighting weapon against their target for day.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Ok. So, when Jesus comes that is it? It is over. We are now into eternity?

Eternity, for any man, is “Realized” (manifested) , when his “Body” is risen (glorified)…

The “groups” (so to speak)
Speculating…broadly, briefly…

144,000… first
faithful committed believers Raptured…(Church)
faithful Hebrews…fathers
Tribes…faithful ISRAEL
Believers…not committed, becoming committed during Trib. And martyred.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[The Light]

Been awhile since I had a deep study on this.
Don’t quite agree with all your points.


God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

What do you disagree with?

 

[Taken]

What do you disagree with?

1. Rapture of the Church.


Yes, before Trib.

2. Rapture of the 144,000 first fruits.


No, the 144,000 come to Earth.
Coming TO earth is Not a rising up, to clouds. (rapture)

3. Rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth at the 6th seal.


No,
Rev. 6:9-11
They, receiving saved souls during the seals judgement, wait, until any others are soul saved during the woes, and Trump Judgements, and all rise up together, to Heaven.

This is the Second Coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord.


No. All eyes see, one who Appears, as the Son of man, sitting on a white Cloud.
Return is Jesus standing on Earth.

All believers return to heaven …


No. The Saved, in Christ, return to Earth, from the Clouds…with Christ Jesus.

for the marriage supper during the ONE YEAR wrath of God.


No. What one year of wrath are you talking about ?

7 years of WRATH…
First wrath of the Lamb…
Then Wrath of Satan…
Then Wrath of God.

4. Jesus returns for vengeance on the Day of the Lord at Armageddon at the 7th trumpet at the end of the 7th seal. Then sets His feet on the Mount of Olives...........the Second Advent.


No. Jesus returns to Rule, 1,000 years.
After 1,000 years…
All nations come against Christs earthly Kingdom.
Last mortals killed…
Angels good/evil battle. Evil defeated sent to hell.

In brief.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[The Light]

for the marriage supper during the ONE YEAR wrath of God.


No. What one year of wrath are you talking about ?

7 years of WRATH…

The wrath of God is the 7th seal and lasts one year.

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 61
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

First wrath of the Lamb…

Negative. The Lamb is God. The wrath of the Lamb is the wrath of God.

Then Wrath of Satan…

I assume this is the great tribulation. If no, let me know what it is.

Then Wrath of God.

Same as wrath of the Lamb. It occurs when the 7th seal is opened and lasts for one year.

 

[Taken]

The wrath of God is the 7th seal and lasts one year.

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 61
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;


Negative. The Lamb is God. The wrath of the Lamb is the wrath of God.


I assume this is the great tribulation. If no, let me know what it is.

Same as wrath of the Lamb. It occurs when the 7th seal is opened and lasts for one year.

Acts of the Wrath of the Lamb begins when the Lamb of God opens the First SEAL.

Rev 6:
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Acts of the Wrath of the Devil Is During the Trumps and Woes.

Rev 12:
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Acts of the Wrath of God is during the Vials/ Bowls.

Rev 16:
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Wrath from Heaven upon the Earth…is FOR the Inhabitants of the Earth to Suffer Judgements…(all or part Of :
the 7 Seals judgements;
the 7 Trumps judgements;
the 7 Vials judgements;)

FOR:
1) unbelief IN the Lamb
2) unbelief IN Satan
3) unbelief IN God

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

The wrath of God is the 7th seal and lasts one year.

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

The Year of our Lord, is the Year of His Birth, And every Year (thereafter) of manKind.

Today is…in the Year of our Lord…
May 11, 2026.

The Lords offering is the Gift of Salvation. Via Baptism. By the Lamb of God…
Reject TAKING that Offering and Become subject to the consequence (Recompense) of the Wrath of the Lamb.

Isaiah 61
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Negative. The Lamb is God. The wrath of the Lamb is the wrath of God.

Logically… yes.
Spiritually…no.

Reason the difference.
When Scripture “identifies” with a specific Name, Title…Attribute to THAT Name, Title, the point in Context.

Men have multiple Names, Titles….that as well are only properly used in Context.

President Trump, has multiple Names, Titles.
Do you call him G-Pa, Dad, Neighbor, Uncle Don, Husband, etc. ?
No… yet others Properly in context do.

Not everyone Recognizes, Accepts, the Lamb of God, His Baptism…
And there IS A Consequence of His Anger and Wrath For such Rejection, that He shall repay.

Same with Satan.
Same with God.

Taken out of Context, you will lose the proper point of Truth.

assume this is the great tribulation. If no, let me know what it is.

The (LAST) sent down from Heaven…
“Great Tribulation”, is A series of 21 Judgements…that are For particular Rejections… Effected by Particular Spirits (Lamb, Satan, God)…Upon particular people / inhabiting the Earth.

The (First) “Great Tribulation”…sent down from Heaven…
Is a similitude to the Last Great Trib.
In Brief:
Few Saved From Wrath…
How…
Why…
1st..Earth cleansed, with water, in preparation for purification.
Last….Earth to be, purified, with Fire.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[The Light]

Acts of the Wrath of the Lamb begins when the Lamb of God opens the First SEAL.

This is incorrect as the wrath of the Lamb is the wrath of God. Additionally, it takes place at the 7th seal, not the 1st seal, as we can see at the end of the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

When the 7th seal is opened, the wrath of the Lamb which is the wrath of God will begin.

Wrath from Heaven upon the Earth…is FOR the Inhabitants of the Earth to Suffer Judgements…(all or part Of :
the 7 Seals judgements;
the 7 Trumps judgements;
the 7 Vials judgements;)

There are 7 seals. The 7 trumpets and 7 vials occur in the 7th seal.

 

[Taken]

This is incorrect as the wrath of the Lamb is the wrath of God.

Disagree and told you exactly WHY… and Expressly Gave you Scriptural Passages, that Expressly Attributes, The Wrath’s TO:
The Lamb, Satan, God.

You want to ignore the distinction…that’s on you.

Additionally, it takes place at the 7th seal, not the 1st seal, as we can see at the end of the 6th seal.

The Book of 7 Seals…Begins the Wrath, by the Lamb breaking the First Seal…and the Judgements increase with severity as each Seal is broken.

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

You want to ignore / dismiss the wrath of Seals 1-5, your choice.
I disagree with you.

There are 7 seals. The 7 trumpets and 7 vials occur in the 7th seal.

No.

 

[The Light]

Disagree and told you exactly WHY… and Expressly Gave you Scriptural Passages, that Expressly Attributes, The Wrath’s TO:
The Lamb, Satan, God.

You want to ignore the distinction…that’s on you.

There is Satan's wrath and there is the wrath of the lamb........which is the wrath of God. The Lamb is God. Those are the facts.

The Book of 7 Seals…Begins the Wrath, by the Lamb breaking the First Seal…and the Judgements increase with severity as each Seal is broken.

You want to ignore / dismiss the wrath of Seals 1-5, your choice.
I disagree with you.

The seven seals do not begin with wrath. This is a false conclusion you are making. The wrath of the Lamb/God does not begin until the 7th seal.

When the 1st seal is opened what happens? The beast of the earth, the rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer. Do you think this is the wrath of the Lamb? All this brings war, famine and pestilence. Gods wrath which is the wrath of the lamb is the 7th seal.
God removes the Church before the great tribulation and the 12 tribes across the earth before the wrath of God.

Only those of the nation of Israel that fled to a place of protection, the two witnesses and unbelievers will be on the earth when God pours out His wrath. We are not appointed to wrath.

No.

Sorry. There are 7 seals. The 7 trumpets and 7 vials occur in the 7th seal. FACT.