Do we have free will or are we predestined?

[Armour of God]

I fear for peoples souls who dont believe what God says.

I believe that the bible is written from divine inspiration. But I also admit there are variations of accounts. This most likely comes from human error, as humans are prone to error, especially when recounting events from long ago.

If you get the testimonies of three witnesses to something, they will have variations in their testimonies. That's normal

 

[Armour of God]

Oh my goodness

 

[St. SteVen]

Why don't you tell her to take leadership and let stop talking about it. Why only me you ask of this. Tell her to start up her own thread about it.

It's your topic. Time to grow a pair.

 

[St. SteVen]

View attachment 83967​

Right.
God predestines us and we take credit for choosing Him.

 

[Titus]

I believe that the bible is written from divine inspiration. But I also admit there are variations of accounts. This most likely comes from human error, as humans are prone to error, especially when recounting events from long ago.

If you get the testimonies of three witnesses to something, they will have variations in their testimonies. That's normal

Has all of Gods word been preserved without man perverting it?

 

[Titus]

but none of the passages you quoted actually condemn authentic private revelation. They condemn adding to Scripture, changing doctrine, or substituting human traditions for God’s commandments

What is authentic private revelation? I've never heard the new testament teach such a thing?

 

[LoveYeshua]

You’re misunderstanding what I actually rejected. I did not reject the Vatican’s 2025 statement. I rejected your interpretation of it — specifically, your claim that the Vatican declared Valtorta’s writings “not supernatural” or “not divinely inspired.”

The Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith did not issue such a declaration. If they intended to, they would have used the explicit canonical formula constat de non supernaturalitate — the precise wording the Church uses when it formally rules that something is not of supernatural origin. They used that formula in other cases in 2024, so they clearly know how and when to apply it.

The fact that they did not use that formula in the Valtorta statement is not my opinion — it is an observable fact. And it matters, because in Church practice, wording determines classification.

So no, I’m not rejecting the Vatican’s statement. I’m rejecting the conclusion you’re drawing from it — a conclusion the text itself does not actually state.

If you want to understand why the distinction matters, and why the 2025 statement does not amount to a declaration of non‑supernatural origin, that’s exactly why I recommended reading Maria Valtorta and the 2025 Vatican Statement: Clarifying Myths, Facts & Supernatural Status. If you’re genuinely interested in what the Church actually said — rather than defending a conclusion you’ve already settled on — then you’ll examine the evidence.



My first posts in this thread were fully on‑topic.

The point where things shifted was when you said to me:



A statement like that directly misrepresents my position, so of course I addressed it. And once that accusation was introduced, the discussion naturally expanded from there.

So yes — the thread snowballed, but the first handful of snow came from that claim you made about me. I responded to clarify, and the conversation grew from that point.

I’m not blaming you for everything; multiple people contributed to the direction the thread took. But it’s simply accurate to say that the escalation began with the accusation you introduced, not with my initial posts.

I'll start a dedicated thread for discussion Maria Valtorta though.

have it your way, you behave as I was expecting, enthralled by words from a woman that cannot be corroborated in any way, sorry you fell for it, believe in Christ and listen and DO what he said and no one else, this is what Christ told us to do. You would be wise to listen to him and no one else.

Peace sister.

 

[Armour of God]

It's your topic. Time to grow a pair.

What do you mean. First you told me to be quiet which I already tried but she kept going, now you seem to be telling me to say something which I already have but look, she keeps going. And you keep encouraging her by giving her a thumbs up. Come on man start another thread already on that topic, stop derailing this thread already, she's not being fair on anyone

 

[Armour of God]

You’re misunderstanding what I actually rejected. I did not reject the Vatican’s 2025 statement. I rejected your interpretation of it — specifically, your claim that the Vatican declared Valtorta’s writings “not supernatural” or “not divinely inspired.”

The Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith did not issue such a declaration. If they intended to, they would have used the explicit canonical formula constat de non supernaturalitate — the precise wording the Church uses when it formally rules that something is not of supernatural origin. They used that formula in other cases in 2024, so they clearly know how and when to apply it.

The fact that they did not use that formula in the Valtorta statement is not my opinion — it is an observable fact. And it matters, because in Church practice, wording determines classification.

So no, I’m not rejecting the Vatican’s statement. I’m rejecting the conclusion you’re drawing from it — a conclusion the text itself does not actually state.

If you want to understand why the distinction matters, and why the 2025 statement does not amount to a declaration of non‑supernatural origin, that’s exactly why I recommended reading Maria Valtorta and the 2025 Vatican Statement: Clarifying Myths, Facts & Supernatural Status. If you’re genuinely interested in what the Church actually said — rather than defending a conclusion you’ve already settled on — then you’ll examine the evidence.



My first posts in this thread were fully on‑topic.

The point where things shifted was when you said to me:



A statement like that directly misrepresents my position, so of course I addressed it. And once that accusation was introduced, the discussion naturally expanded from there.

So yes — the thread snowballed, but the first handful of snow came from that claim you made about me. I responded to clarify, and the conversation grew from that point.

I’m not blaming you for everything; multiple people contributed to the direction the thread took. But it’s simply accurate to say that the escalation began with the accusation you introduced, not with my initial posts.

I'll start a dedicated thread for discussion Maria Valtorta though.

Can you please open your own thread about Maria Valtrota.
There you can speak about her as much as you like without hijacking a thread or frustrating people.
Please

 

[St. SteVen]

What do you mean. First you told me to be quiet which I already tried but she kept going, now you seem to be telling me to say something which I already have but look, she keeps going.

Stop blaming everything on others. Take the bull by the horns and ride it.
I'm guessing you don't have much experience with forums.

 

[Armour of God]

Stop blaming everything on others. Take the bull by the horns and ride it.
I'm guessing you don't have much experience with forums.

Ok im am riding the bull. Keep provoking it and I'll keep riding it, I won't be quiet, especially when they wrongly accuse me of being a liar and promote false prophets. Yeee haaaa ride that bull, keep poking it, Yeee haaa. I think she's gone. Yeee haaa

 

[LoveYeshua]

What is authentic private revelation? I've never heard the new testament teach such a thing?

Jesus spoke against these here is the proof;

Jhn 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

Jhn 5:32 It is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

What Maria Valtorts wrote has to be rejected completely period. The words of Christ have complete authority to make this call

 

[St. SteVen]

What is authentic private revelation? I've never heard the new testament teach such a thing?

1 Corinthians chapter 14 covers that. Two or three prophets can speak.
Here's a testimony of what happened to me once.

I was on another forum years ago where a man was having a rant which ended in an absolute fit by writing this:
"... consult with your Holy Spirit and get back to me!"

Yikes! It was a real scorcher of a post. Had to wear oven mitts to read it. - LOL

I was still reeling when I heard very clearly, "Answer him."
Say what? "Er... what should I say?"
No reply, as usual. - LOL

I hit REPLY and took a deep breath and just started typing.
Words were going into the post with little thinking effort from me.
I reviewed what I had written and fixed the obvious spelling errors.
Marveling at what I had written, but a bit uncomfortable. I hit SEND.

I had asked him to flip open a Bible and point randomly to a verse that would speak to him.
Under normal circumstances I don't recommend doing that. But... whatever. ???

The next day I heard back from the guy. He was a completely different person.
Something had changed. He told me that he had in fact randomly opened the Bible and pointed to a verse.

The verse is pasted below.

When he read "before the silver cord is severed" he was overcome with God's presence.
The post I had delivered spoke to the pain he was experiencing. Which I had no knowledge of.

He shared that he had lost a child and his wife in childbirth. He was angry and bitter.
The "silver cord" had reminded him of the umbilical cord "severed" at birth.

He pressed me to tell him the color of his wife's hair.

I said that would be an abuse of the gift, but for some reason I was seeing red hair in my mind's eye.
BINGO. Red hair.


Ecclesiastes 12:6 NIV
Remember him—before the silver cord is severed,
and the golden bowl is broken;
before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
and the wheel broken at the well,

 

[Armour of God]

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world

Galatians 1:9
If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies

Matthew 24:11
And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.

Mark 13:22
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

2 Corinthians 11:13
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.

 

[Armour of God]

Yeee Haaa ride that bull.
I love the expression

 

[St. SteVen]

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world

The converse would mean, you can believe most spirits, but not every one.

Did you test Maria's prophecy, or just reject her because you were uncomfortable?
If it really was Jesus speaking, then you rejected Christ.

 

[Wick Stick]

The converse would mean, you can believe most spirits, but not every one.

Did you test Maria's prophecy, or just reject her because you were uncomfortable?
If it really was Jesus speaking, then you rejected Christ.

The Bible has rules for testing prophecy, and also for the dissemination of private revelations.

Perhaps we should use them?

 

[ProDeo]

Do we have free will or are we predestined?

Does God choose us or do we choose God?

Is salvation predestined or is it free will?

Are we predestined to sin or is it free will?

Are our jobs predestined or was it free will?

Is what we eat predestined or is it free will?

I think there are bible verses that support both free will and predestination but I'll let you guys give your opinions and present the bible verses that support it

Moving in late.

I voted for OTHER, because :

1. Free will --> limited IMO and without a divine spark from the Holy Spirit maybe even useless.

2. Predestination - all people are predestinated because the Book of Life was written before A&E were created.

 

[Armour of God]

Moving in late.

I voted for OTHER, because :

1. Free will --> limited IMO and without a divine spark from the Holy Spirit maybe even useless.

2. Predestination - all people are predestinated because the Book of Life was written before A&E were created.

It never too late.
I appreciate your input.

 

[Armour of God]

@St. SteVen

8 minutes is a long time on a bull
But it's not my first rodeo
I rode the bull and the bull has gone
Thanks for your advice cowboy