The Chosen

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amigo de christo

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Any god , any jesus even , that panders to please man
COMETH NOT OF GOD , NOT OF CHRIST , NOT of HIS SPIRIT .
This is simply another jesus as paul would have called it .
And it cannot save you , it cannot save me , it cannot save humanity . We better bible up and get
real acquainted with THE ACTUAL WORDS OF GOD , OF CHRIST and later of the apostels WHO WERE INSPIRED BY THE SPIRIT of GOD and of CHRIST to write such beautiful words of truth .
 
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amigo de christo

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That is the problem with The Chosen, The Shack, Jesus Christ Superstar, Your Best Life Now, and so many other popular products of vain imagination.

They are mixing fable, bawdy jokes, irreverent comedy, absurd events, and even anti-biblical concepts in with the gospel narrative. This produces a false version of the gospel that will mislead people. What people see remains in mind longer than what they read. Even if they watch The Chosen, then go read the gospels, the scenes from The Chosen will stay in their memory.

The dangers of The Chosen hit me hard at a local Baptist men’s group. We had to watch a season of it and when each episode was over, the guys started talking about the fictional scenes as though they were really what happened in the gospels. It was bizarre and disturbing.

I was the only person who objected to unbiblical fiction that distorted the character of Jesus. Everybody else just accepted the fiction as true, because they saw it on the video screen. That was alarming.
Lets look again at these words my friend .
Notice they can spend hours reading such books , watching such films
BUT HOW MANY HOURS do you THINK they take time to truly search
in the scrips and be reminded by THE TRUTH in said scriptures , in said letters .
OH try and get them into the bible and all of a sudden you might hear
I find it hard to get the time .
But many find it not so hard to have the time to SPEND on ENTERTAINEMENT on things of this world .
Now were we not supposed to have LOVED GOD , HIS CHRIST first and foremost above all .
JESUS spent the time being beaten , whipped down , wearing a crown of thorns , being lifted up and crucified .
But sadly a lot of christendom cant even spend the time TO LEARN OF HIM and TO HONOR HE WHO SAVED US .
This , i hope , be a reminder to us all , OH we can always spend more time SERVING and SEEKING THE GOD
who saved us .
 

amigo de christo

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That explains a lot.
actually wrangler what he said does explain a lot . On that you are correct .
IT PROVES we are in a massive falling away and much peoples had rather spend time on fables
THAN in the actual bible . Many had rather spend the time chasing after and hoping in men .
IN POLITICS , IN anti ch rist broad path ecumeincalisms , and in other isms .
BUT for GOD many have NO HEART for to actually please Him and to seek HIM
and to learn of HIM and to be reading the bible .
SO i have to say you were right on your prhase that this explains a lot ,
BUT DEAD WRONG to see it as error on his part .
 

amigo de christo

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Yes, there are many Biblical errors in The Chosen, and in retrospect I have to agree some of them are egregious.

I'm not sure it's about leading to "inclusive Jesus," though -- in the show he definitely says he is there to divide, and to bring a sword. I tend to think the heresy that will be delivered is the gnostic one, in large part because the show has (increasingly) used the language and storytelling techniques of another gnostic televisual text, not to mention reference to an actual gnostic gospel.
And is that not how the clever serpent has always worked . OH it can quoate scrips
But its gonna blend the lie right into it .
Better we stick to the SCRIPS to learn than to try and learn about jesus through such things as the chosen and other doctrines of men .
Cause many there are which be leading this people astray .
BUT NOT GOD . HE Will surely NEVER LEAD ASTRAY those who come to HIM by FAITH IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
But those whose faith and hope be in what paul would call , another jesus , OOOPS they already decieved
and need to be corrected quickly lest they continue on such a dangerous path .
 
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Marvelloustime

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And is that not how the clever serpent has always worked . OH it can quoate scrips
But its gonna blend the lie right into it .
Better we stick to the SCRIPS to learn than to try and learn about jesus through such things as the chosen and other doctrines of men .
Cause many there are which be leading this people astray .
BUT NOT GOD . HE Will surely NEVER LEAD ASTRAY those who come to HIM by FAITH IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
But those whose faith and hope be in what paul would call , another jesus , OOOPS they already decieved
and need to be corrected quickly lest they continue on such a dangerous path .
@amigo de christo
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amigo de christo

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Has anyone watching this thread seen the tv show Lost?
No. But i have seen that many are lost . It is time to preach JESUS to all that has breath .
With the reminder of the absolute dire need for to repent and believe on Him .
Now to the trenches one and all . We have got much work to do in these late and last hours
upon this earth . For in a day and in an hour known to no man
and the Door shall close and all outside shall wail .
 
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amigo de christo

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Yes, I saw the show Lost. There was a consciousness on the island.
One i am sure was not of GOD .
New age not good . JESUS , REAL GOOD .
Let us not be caught up into dissumlations and fantasies .
Rather let us HEED the HOLY LORD and be well learned in those scriptures .
 
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Wrangler

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From the perspective of the speaker? She was sleeping. You call that false? A lie?
Yes! It is a total lie as reality is not determined by perspective.
Agreed. “Sleep” is used in Scripture as a euphemism for dead, not to argue that one is NOT dead.
Matthew 9:24 "The girl is not dead but asleep.” Reliance on "perspective" requires the admission that from another perspective, the girl is dead. Given that "sleep" is used 54-times in the Bible to mean dead, v24 reveals a complete contradiction to the Biblical standard.
P1. Sleep = dead (54 times)​
P2. Sleep = NOT dead.​
If a "perspective" allows the girl to be deemed NOT dead, it must also allow the girl to be deemed dead, which makes this whole scene something less than the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth that one rely upon.
 

Wrangler

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2. Was Solomon’s temple re-built in 3 days?
3. Is cannibalism approved by God in the OT?

You'd need to point me to what you're referencing with 2 and 3,

#2. Was Solomon’s temple re-built in 3 days? John 2
14 In the Temple area he saw merchants selling cattle, sheep, and doves for sacrifices; he also saw dealers at tables exchanging foreign money. 15 Jesus made a whip from some ropes and chased them all out of the Temple ...“Get these things out of here. Stop turning my Father’s house into a marketplace!” ... 18 But the Jewish leaders demanded, “What are you doing? If God gave you authority to do this, show us a miraculous sign to prove it.” 19 “All right,” Jesus replied. “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 “What!” they exclaimed. “It has taken forty-six years to build this Temple, and you can rebuild it in three days?” 21 But when Jesus said “this temple,” he meant his own body.

ANALYSIS:
The key to a lie is deception. Approximately 400 times in Scripture, "this temple" refers to Solomons's temple. The narrator knows this is how Jesus' audience interprets "this temple," which is why he added v21, which helps the reader - not the audience listening to Jesus words. No where in the text does Jesus mean what he says and says what he means in defining "this temple" to be an exception in this context of something other than Solomons's temple.

It's like lying to your wife that you'll be home by 9 PM from drinking with the boys but then tell the boys you meant a time zone 6 hours behind making your wife have no right to being angry when you stroll in the door at 3 AM, adamantly claiming that from that other "perspective" only the truth was told to her.

No, Solomon's temple was not rebuilt in 3 days. Saying so, implying so is a lie. Plain and simple.


#3 Is cannibalism approved by God in the OT? John 6
47 “I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life. 48 Yes, I am the bread of life! 49 Your ancestors ate manna in the wilderness, but they all died. 50 Anyone who eats the bread from heaven, however, will never die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever; and this bread, which I will offer so the world may live, is my flesh.
53unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you cannot have eternal life within you. 54 But anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life ... 61 Jesus was aware that his disciples were complaining, so he said to them, “Does this offend you? ... 66 At this point many of his disciples turned away and deserted him.* 67 Then Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked, “Are you also going to leave?”

ANALYSIS
'This bread is my flesh,' eliminates the possibility that Jesus is speaking metaphorically. The bread is the metaphor defined by Jesus as literally meaning his flesh. And he emphatically says to eat it over and over again. (He doesn't say this bread is my spirit.) The audience properly interprets Jesus words as advocating for cannibalism, which is not a blessing but a curse according to God. Click here. Just like the question of whether the girl is sleeping or dead, is Jesus talking about:
X. bread​
Y. flesh​
Z. something else (like spirit or substitutionary sacrifice of life-for-life)?​

If he's talking about something else, why does he keep talking about bread and flesh knowing his audience is reacting to his curse, which eating flesh is? Deception, which profoundly violates 2 Cor 1:13 (VOICE) We are not writing to you in anything resembling codes or riddles. The intent to deceive is so extreme, even to the point that his own disciples walk away from him! No Christian apologist in their right mind would adhere to deceptive language to the point of having, not only unbelievers walk away, but even fellow Christ followers. Come on now!

Knowing someone is deceived by what you said (emphatically and repeatedly) and you choose to let them remain deceived by your words rather than kindly speak the plain, simple truth falls short of the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

* IMO, this (John 6:66)is the saddest verse in all of Scripture.
 

Janie23

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Yes, I saw the show Lost. There was a consciousness on the island.

I don't think the text supports that interpretation (it's an interpretation believed and expressed by a few of the characters who aren't presented as reliable narrators), but you're at least familiar with the show. Good.



In the field of narratology -- the study of narratives -- there is a distinction between "story" and "discourse." "Story" refers to plot and characters. "Discourse" refers to how the story is told. In many narratives the discourse informs the reader in the interpretation of the story.

For a very simple example, consider how soundtracks are used in movies. The score typically isn't something that is heard by the characters -- it isn't a part of the plot, unless it's directly presented (diagetically): a song is playing on radio, or the characters are at a concert. Instead, a non-diagetic score informs the viewers (often subconsciously) about how to feel about the events being portrayed. An "uplifting" score informs us to feel good (or bittersweet); a foreboding score informs us that the event is one to fear or dread. The score can be concordant with the story (it might inform us that the characters feel the same way) or it might be ironic (the character appears to think they've done something marvelous, when really their actions are paving the way to their doom).

There are many ways for a discourse to add layers of meaning to a story. Literary references, for example, beg to be examined, as they can function as a metatextual commentary on the events portrayed -- for example, when Jesus quotes the OT, we are behooved to examine those passages and compare them to the current passage. Literary techniques like repetition reinforce examining the events or dialogue with respect to the other iterations of that reference. Narratives which present the reader with information of which that the characters are not aware can create for the reader the experience of tension, foreshadowing, irony, and so forth. And of course, symbolism and metaphor can be employed to create multiple dimensions of meaning and interpretation.



In Lost, the actual "reality" of the island isn't directly expressed; it is a "Mystery Box" that's left unopened. But the discourse provides clues. For example, there's the use of analepsis (flash-backs) and prolepsis (flash-forwards) which point to the island's apparent property of conferring a measure of time-travel to its occupants. There is the recurring phrase, "We have to go back," which has scads of variants. There are scores of literary references. And there's a technique called "mirror-twinning" where characters are juxtaposed with each other to make them seem more similar than they initially appear (they might repeat each other's lines, for example), albeit with some kind of reversal that functions like a twist. Indeed, there are many shots involving mirrors and reversed images, and many shots that reference each other. There are even places where "continuity errors" seem too coincidental, but more like they were made on purpose -- coming in mirrored pairs.

My interpretation: the people on the island consider it "special" because it confers the ability of one's consciousness to "go back" in time, under certain circumstances, particularly upon (but not limited to) death. If the loop remains closed, it becomes a sort of Eternal Return as described by Nietzsche. As such, the show functions as a mythology with its own potential of an "afterlife" which is most definitely not Christian. And because the shows deals in time-travel, it explores what it means to know what's going to happen before it happens (in other words, when information has traveled backwards in time, it becomes prophetic, or Fate).



Let us now turn to the discourse of The Chosen. First, episodes frequently open with a flash-back. For example, one episode opens with a scene from Numbers 21:8-9, where Moses prepares a bronze snake and puts it on a pole. Later in that episode, Jesus references that passage in his conversation with Nicodemus (John 3:1-21); in both the Bible and The Chosen, Jesus explicitly refers to himself in those terms: "And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him." The Chosen has laid it on particularly thick, though, because the pole in the flash-back at the beginning of the episode is shaped like a cross.

Another example: In the episode where Mary anoints the feet of Jesus, the episode began with a shot of a lamb with its feet being anointed in preparation for temple sacrifice. Mary isn't aware of this connotation, either in the episode or in the Bible -- for her, it's an act of worship. But the action nonetheless functions as symbolic foreshadowing of what is to come for The Lamb of God.

I say all this to demonstrate that The Chosen is literate in its discursive techniques. The showrunners are aware of how to use "discourse" to inform the "story" in a variety of ways.

The Chosen has also opened episodes with the flash-forward technique instead of with a flash-back. It starts in the Season 2 opener, where we see apostles in the future discussing the books they're writing; that episode also closes in the future, with John figuring out the opening to his Gospel. In Season 4, there's another episode starting in the future, with Matthew bringing the first final revision of his codex to Mary; that episode also returns to the future, where Mary shares her own writing.

But then in Season 5, the technique becomes pervasive. Every episode begins in flash-forward to a scene from The Last Supper. However, the scenes are presented in reverse order (or backwards) -- the end of The Last Supper is shown at the beginning, the beginning at the end -- eventually forming a loop when the events of the season and the beginning of the Last Supper converge.

Ss that happens, the characters on their way to The Last Supper start to experience flash-backs, triggered by minor events or items in Jerusalem that remind them of some time in the past. These flash-backs are joined to the present by a non-diagetic sound effect that strongly resembles the "whoosh" used in Lost. It makes Jerusalem function like the Island. It also in one of these Flash-Backs that gnostic The Gospel of Thomas (whose name means Twin) is referenced.

The prevalence of the phrase "go back" (and its variants) has also started to ramp up in The Chosen, as have the words "lost" and "time," as well as the twinning of dialogue. This became apparent to me in 4x06, "Dedication," which begins in Flash-Forward (after the Pharisees attempt to stone Jesus and his followers) with this dialogue:

Go, go! Go! Hurry up!
Come on, move!

-On the table. There.
-Move, move!

Let's go, go!

[all shouting]

[coughing]

Hey, hey. Let's go, let's go.

Yeah, yeah. Easy, easy.
Careful. Careful with his head.

Careful with his head.

Notice the twinning -- "Go, go!" "Move, Move!" "Easy, easy." "Careful with his head, careful with his head." It also features this dialogue between Mary and Tamar:

-How can we ever go back there again?​
-Surely we'll have to.​
This scene is duplicated near the end of the episode. It is twinned, and comes full circle.



Most people who watch The Chosen are familiar with the Bible, probably not every verse, but with the overall shape of the story. We know how it ends; we've been spoiled. Jesus will be crucified, and then resurrected, and he's done it to take our place as the bearer of the punishment deserved for our sins; he himself is blameless.

The Chosen amplifies our foreknowledge. Witnessing the struggles of the disciples to understand what Jesus says is going to happen, whether through allusion or directly, we are put in the shoes of Jesus himself. Our frustration with the apostles mirrors the frustration that Jesus has.

We know what's going to happen. Just like Jesus knows what's going to happen.

The story is ostensibly about the experience of the apostles, but the discourse is putting us in the place of Jesus himself.

I worry that The Chosen is trying to take this to its natural conclusion.
 
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Anchorite

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Jenkins has the “power” to do whatever He wants with his “Jesus” character, knowing full well that millions will receive the counterfeit as the real Christ. Jenkins has taken Jesus and tamed him, deconstructed him, and re-formed him—and he has done so with no concern for the "rules" of Christology. But why should he have any concern? He's got a wildly popular "Jesus" loved by millions, and a fat paycheck to affirm this direction. He has no rules, and the heresy of “once saved, always saved” protects him (he believes) from any eternal consequences. He does what he wants with Jesus, and people weep with emotion and applaud.

Jenkins feels free to speak flippantly and crudely of Jesus, and to place false images of the saints in the imaginations of tens of millions, but his quip about “Jesus” struggling to pee is vile, and he is losing his grip and doubling down: “Just wait until I show Him struggling to pee in the middle of the night!” — Dallas Jenkins.
Here is a Catholic critique of The Chosen.
 
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Anchorite

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Unfortunately, our current media and visual centric culture demands more than words on a page. We no longer seem to have a sense of contentment based purely on the written word. As Postman writes, we require amusement. When this amusement comes alongside, takes the place of, or supersedes Scripture, we have removed the Bible as the sufficient guide for the Christian life and replaced it with something else. True faith is found in and centered on Scripture and nothing else.
 

amigo de christo

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I have, one of my favorite shows, and I also liked the ending.
The end of this life for the sheep will be very very good .
But unto all who joined hands in a lie and with those who made a lie their ending will be destruction .
Just a friendly reminder to us all that we make NOT the road to GOD broad and sin accepting and even accepting of unbelief .
For beleive me they were NOT ON the narrow road . HAD THEY BEEN
they had preached that VERY NARROW way , road to GOD . FAITH IN JESUS C HRIST , cause budda and all false religoins
are in darkness and their works and unbelief WILL NOT save them . THEY are in direct rebellion to GOD
and deny JESUS IS the SON OF GOD , MESSIAH OF GOD and that one must absolutely BELIEVE ON HIM to be saved .
Many will wail , and i dont desire THIS ENDING for them .
SO by grace i shall present the T RUE JESUS , HIS GOSPEL and who so ever hears amen but who so ever rejects
will wail on JESUS day . Thus let us present the TRUE JESUS and not some other jesus , THE True gospel
and not some other gospel so called .
 

Wrangler

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Unfortunately, our current media and visual centric culture demands more than words on a page. We no longer seem to have a sense of contentment based purely on the written word. As Postman writes, we require amusement. When this amusement comes alongside, takes the place of, or supersedes Scripture, we have removed the Bible as the sufficient guide for the Christian life and replaced it with something else. True faith is found in and centered on Scripture and nothing else.
This is IDOLATRY. No one is claiming a show is taking "the place of, or supersedes Scripture." The Chosen is just entertainment, Christian entertainment, and there is nothing wrong with being enriched by amusement from time to time. My wife likes to sing even though the songs are not in the Bible.

Lighten up while you still can.
 
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Wrangler

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That's where you are dead wrong. It's antichrist propaganda, pure and simple. Some see that, many do not.

Much love!
Fortunately, 100's of millions of Christians enjoy this amusing Christian art, entertainment. My wife brought me to Christ 9 years ago. I told her about the vitriol about this show we love. She shakes her head at the hate, the absence of grace shown in this thread. That is what is antichrist.

BTW, Jonathon Roumey, who places our Lord on the show, gave a speech at the DC re-commitment to Christ. I found it touching. I hope you do as well.