Why the great chain?

[Jay Ross]

Satan (a.k.a. Lucifer = "light bearer") surely has a body, he is a cherub. Try an internet search: Lucifer Cherub.

Currently he is entombed within the earth (Revelation 20:3), but he will be released after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-10) and obliterated, along with the old heavens and earth (Revelation 21:1).

Hmmm, "entombed," or "bound"... another very misunderstood concept...


And "the millennium"... different understandings among many regarding the nature of this "thousand years" and when it is...


And "obliterated"... <chuckles> Not in the sense of annihilation...


Right, all will be made brand new, as God says in Revelation 21:5. He does not say, "Behold, I am making all new things." <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

Understanding the timeline for the events foretold.

Isaiah 24:21-22 speaks of the heavenly hosts being judged at the same time as the kings of the earth are judged and Mat 24:32 provides a clue as to when this will happen in that He uses and agricultural picture to denote the time between when the fig tree will begin to bud fresh leaves and when the summer season will begin which is around 96 or so years when we apply the year for a day usual prophetic understanding for prophetic words given.

It Matt 24:32 indicates when Israel will begin turning once more towards God to be gathered by God to be planted into His fertile soil at which point God will enter into a covenant of peace with the nation of Israel to remove the evil beasts of the earth from causing trouble for them for a time, i.e. for a season of 1,000 years.

Our speculation on when this will be, is based on peoples' opinions, rather than on the hard evidence as given in the scriptures.

Currently, Satan and his heavenly cronies are still wandering over the face of the earth and around the year 2045 AD they will be judged at the same time as the kings of the earth assembled at a place called Armageddon and imprisoned in a Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years.

During this 1,000-year period of the great harvest of souls, the Bottomless pit will remain locked, until it is unlocked to enable the Little While Period of the Great tribulation, to unfold.

Shalom

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

IMO:
"Entered into" = "influenced." I do not know the process of demon influence. Satan likewise tempted Eve to sin, through the serpent (Genesis 1:3-4, Revelation 12:9).

Do you not believe that demons/devils can literally possess people (literally enter into their bodies)? Scripture clearly teaches that.

 

[Jay Ross]

But, of course, a spirit being cannot be literally bound and chained up like that and his binding has nothing to do with him being completely incapacitated, as you know.

But being also locked up in the Bottomless Pit while chained, means that he will be in capacitated while the access point to and from the Bottomless Pit is locked.

 

[PinSeeker]

Premils think of Satan's binding as a literal binding...

Well, it is literal, but just not in the... wooden sense that they understand that literalness.

...they see his binding as resulting in him being completely incapacitated...

Well aware.

...it's not surprising that some premils would try to claim that Satan has a physical body...

I don't think "most premills" understand that, exactly, that he has a physical body. It's just about the nature of the binding, the extent of it, really... complete incapacitation, like you said. My point here is that just because they understand it as complete incapacitation does not necessarily mean they think he has a physical body. But whatever; it matters not; don't care. <smile>

Satan's binding has nothing to do with him being completely incapacitated, as you know.

Sure.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

But being also locked up in the Bottomless Pit while chained, means that he will be in capacitated while the access point to and from the Bottomless Pit is locked.

Incapacitated in a certain sense, yes, from... I mean you know the verse in Revelation 20. But it's that sense which is the matter of disagreement. As I have said, we can draw an analogy to a prisoner who has been incarcerated... and in a locked cell, of course... <smile> and is shut off... sealed <smile> ...from the outside world, but he (or she) can still exert influence on the outside world...

Grace and peace to you, Jay.

 

[PinSeeker]

Our speculation on when this will be, is based on peoples' opinions, rather than on the hard evidence as given in the scriptures.

Well, in your opinion, sure. <smile> And in a certain way, this is true of all of us, you included.

Currently, Satan and his heavenly cronies are still wandering over the face of the earth and around the year 2045 AD they will be judged at the same time as the kings of the earth assembled at a place called Armageddon and imprisoned in a Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years.

Ohhhhh, boy. <smile>

During this 1,000-year period of the great harvest of souls, the Bottomless pit will remain locked, until it is unlocked to enable the Little While Period of the Great tribulation, to unfold.

Sure. Agree in principle, yes. <smile> I really like your use of the word 'this' here... <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But being also locked up in the Bottomless Pit while chained, means that he will be in capacitated while the access point to and from the Bottomless Pit is locked.

So you think, but his binding is not about being incapacitated, it's about keeping him from silencing the gospel and uniting people against the church, which is what he does when he is loosed (Revelation 20:7-9).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well, it is literal, but just not in the... wooden sense that they understand that literalness.

That's what I'm saying.

I don't think "most premills" understand that, exactly, that he has a physical body.

I said "some premills", not "most premils".

It's just about the nature of the binding, the extent of it, really... complete incapacitation, like you said. My point here is that just because they understand it as complete incapacitation does not necessarily mean they think he has a physical body.

Of course. I said "some premils", but I would say most premils do not believe he has a physical body. But, I've seen a few on this forum who believe that.

But whatever; it matters not; don't care. <smile>

You cared enough to comment on it, but okay.

 

[Jay Ross]

Incapacitated in a certain sense, yes, from... I mean you know the verse in Revelation 20. But it's that sense which is the matter of disagreement. As I have said, we can draw an analogy to a prisoner who has been incarcerated... and in a locked cell, of course... <smile> and is shut off... sealed <smile> ...from the outside world, but he (or she) can still exert influence on the outside world...

Grace and peace to you, Jay.

You are stating that Satan, while he is locked up in the Bottomless Pit, will still exert influence on the outside world, but has scripture informed us how he will do this? If so, what is his plan to do so and how will he be able to impede the Gospel Salvation message..

 

[Jay Ross]

So you think, but his binding is not about being incapacitated, it's about keeping him from silencing the gospel and uniting people against the church, which is what he does when he is loosed (Revelation 20:7-9).

So, you do not know how Satan plans to influence people such that they have no time to consider the gospel while he is imprisoned in the Bottomless pit?

Perhaps you may be able to provide your opinion on how Satan will interfere with the harvest of souls during the time that he is imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit.

Shalom

 

[PinSeeker]

You are stating that Satan, while he is locked up in the Bottomless Pit, will still exert influence on the outside world, but has scripture informed us how he will do this? If so, what is his plan to do so and how will he be able to impede the Gospel Salvation message..

It's not about "impeding the Gospel Salvation message"... that is what he is absolutely unable to do... bound and sealed from doing. Now, how does he "exert influence on the outside world?" Well, we are warned about and encouraged in resisting it in various ways all through the New Testament.

So, you do not know how Satan plans to influence people such that they have no time to consider the gospel while he is imprisoned in the Bottomless pit?

No offense intended, by any means, but this is such a misguided question...

Perhaps you may be able to provide your opinion on how Satan will interfere with the harvest of souls during the time that he is imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit.

He cannot. Jesus said so in Matthew 12:29: "...how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house..."

Grace and peace to you, Jay.

 

[William Barton]

PinSeeker noted:

<entombed or bound>

Revelation 20:2 εδησεν = he bound [him] (no details given). He is released after the thousand years millennial reign (Revelation 20:7-10).

 

[PinSeeker]

PinSeeker noted:

<entombed or bound>

Revelation 13:12 εδησεν = "he bound," no details given.

Well, it is what it is, and a very misunderstood concept, as I said. I'm not sure where... somebody... is getting 'entombed' out of that, but whatever.

He is released after the thousand years millennial reign (Revelation 20:7-10).

Sure. Never said otherwise. It will happen at the end of this "thousand years," God's "millennium" of Revelation 20:1-6.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Jay Ross]

It's not about "impeding the Gospel Salvation message"... that is what he is absolutely unable to do... bound and sealed from doing. Now, how does he "exert influence on the outside world?" Well, we are warned about and encouraged in resisting it in various ways all through the New Testament.

A great unsupported statement. Yes, we are told to resist Satan and his influence(s), but did not Jesus tell the people around Him as he walked up from Jericho towards Bethany on the afternoon before the Sabbath and His Disciples a few days later on the Mt of Olives, the same basic parable about what Satan will put in place before he goes away for a time while he is imprisoned in the Bottomless pit?

No offense intended, by any means, but this is such a misguided question...

If this question is so misguided, then why did you not provide scriptural evidence to show how Satan will impede the spreading of the Salvation Gospel Message while he is locked up in the Bottomless pit?

He cannot. Jesus said so in Matthew 12:29: "...how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house..."

This is the context of Matthew 12:29: -

Matthew 12:22-30: - A House Divided Cannot Stand​

(Mark 3:22-27; Luke 11:14-23)​

​

22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"​

​

24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, "This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons."​

​

25 But Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore, they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He, who is not with Me, is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad."​

NKJV​

And yes, Jesus was indicating that during the Great Harvest of Souls, that Satan would be bound so that the Harvest of souls could be gathered.

And Jesus also told the people that Satan had a plan while he was away, supposedly to get a kingdom, that would impede the coming of the Everlasting Kingdom. Do you know what Jesus told us about Satan's plan to impede the establishment of the Ever-Lasting Kingdom of God?

Shalom

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So, you do not know how Satan plans to influence people such that they have no time to consider the gospel while he is imprisoned in the Bottomless pit?

You are asking me a question that doesn't apply to what I believe (or to what anyone believes, probably), so it's not a valid question for me to answer. I'm afraid that your lack of reading comprehension skills prevents me from being able to discuss this with you.

 

[PinSeeker]

A great unsupported statement.

LOL! No.... but certainly think what you want...

Yes, we are told to resist Satan and his influence(s)....

Yes, and why would we be told that, Jay? So you're kind of making my point for me... <smile>

...did not Jesus tell the people around Him as he walked up from Jericho towards Bethany on the afternoon before the Sabbath and His Disciples a few days later on the Mt of Olives, the same basic parable about what Satan will put in place before he goes away for a time while he is imprisoned in the Bottomless pit?

Yes. But there is much... oh, misdirection <chuckles> ...out there on that... <smile> I don't mean intentional misdirection, but... <smile>

If this question is so misguided, then why did you not provide scriptural evidence to show how Satan will impede the spreading of the Salvation Gospel Message while he is locked up in the Bottomless pit?

Hmmm, okay, well then, by the same token, provide to me what you think to be Scriptural evidence that shows that Satan will impede the spreading of the Gospel to all nations. And before you do that... you might remember the Scripture that... well, the Scripture that I think you're referring to... does not say anything about merely impeding it but rather preventing it, through deception.

This is the context of Matthew 12:29...

I'm well aware of the immediate context. But we can apply Matthew 12:29 more widely than that. Much more. Now you might call this "adding to Scripture," but... no... <smile> So much of Scripture is like that...

Jesus was indicating that during the Great Harvest of Souls, that Satan would be bound so that the Harvest of souls could be gathered.

Right, and here we are. <smile>

And Jesus also told the people that Satan had a plan while he was away, supposedly to get a kingdom, that would impede the coming of the Everlasting Kingdom. Do you know what Jesus told us about Satan's plan to impede the establishment of the Ever-Lasting Kingdom of God?

<chuckles> There's that word 'impede' again... <chuckles> Truthfully, I'm not sure of the sense in which you use that word, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, as many on here do from time to time. But... "The gates of hell shall not prevail..." (Matthew 16:18) And as Job said to God, "I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted" (42:2). You believe this, Jay, yes?

Grace and peace to you, Jay.

 

[Jay Ross]

You are asking me a question that doesn't apply to what I believe (or to what anyone believes, probably). I'm afraid that your lack of reading comprehension skills prevents me from being able to discuss this with you.

Thank you for confirming what I suspected, that you lack any understanding of Satan's plans for while he is imprisoned in the Bottomless pit because you cannot comprehend what is plainly written in the scriptures that Christ told. You have spiritualised the scriptures such that you are no longer able to see Satan plans for while he has gone away for a time on the pretext of getting a kingdom.

Shalom

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thank you for confirming what I suspected, that you lack any understanding of Satan's plans for while he is imprisoned in the Bottomless pit because you cannot comprehend what is plainly written in the scriptures that Christ told.

LOL! How can you say this when you so clearly do not even understand what I believe due to your complete lack of reading comprehension skills? You can't refute something that you don't even understand.

You have spiritualised the scriptures such that you are no longer able to see Satan plans for while he has gone away for a time on the pretext of getting a kingdom.

Do I spiritualize scripture when I see that the earth will be burned up when Jesus returns (2 Peter 3:10-12) which doesn't allow for the possibility of mortals populating the earth after He returns?

 

[Jay Ross]

LOL! No.... but certainly think what you want...

I am following your example of thinking what you want, but by coming to a far better understanding rather than what many preachers falsely teach.

Yes, and why would we be told that, Jay? So you're kind of making my point for me... <smile>

Only on Matt 12:29, but with respect as to why Satan was also bound with a chain before he was imprisoned in a Bottomless pit and what his plans were for that time.

Yes. But there is much... oh, misdirection <chuckles> ...out there on that... <smile> I don't mean intentional misdirection, but... <smile>

I agree with you, particularly with regards to the "talents/minas" and the need for giving them.

Hmmm, okay, well then, by the same token, provide to me what you think to be Scriptural evidence that shows that Satan will impede the spreading of the Gospel to all nations. And before you do that... you might remember the Scripture that... well, the Scripture that I think you're referring to... does not say anything about merely impeding it but rather preventing it, through deception.

Impeding/preventing have much in common with respect to the outcome.

I'm well aware of the immediate context. But we can apply Matthew 12:29 more widely than that. Much more. Now you might call this "adding to Scripture," but... no... <smile> So much of Scripture is like that...

Yes Matt 12:29 can be applied more widely, but we are to resist Satan, and in the case of Satan being imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit, this verse does not apply as Satan can exercise no direct influence while he is in the Bottomless Pit.

Right, and here we are. <smile>

Yes, Satan is bound, and imprisoned along with the other judged heavenly hosts, i.e. the four beasts and the Little Horn, and the judged King of the earth

<chuckles> There's that word 'impede' again... <chuckles> Truthfully, I'm not sure of the sense in which you use that word, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, as many on here do from time to time. But... "The gates of hell shall not prevail..." (Matthew 16:18) And as Job said to God, "I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted" (42:2). You believe this, Jay, yes?

I agree but these scripture references are a misdirection with respect to the thread topic.

Shalom

 

[Jay Ross]

Do I spiritualize scripture when I see that the earth will be burned up when Jesus returns (2 Peter 3:10-12) which doesn't allow for the possibility of mortals populating the earth after He returns?

You keep proving my point with respect to your understanding of the scriptures