Many Say ‘Just Believe’… But What Did Jesus Actually Teach?

[Nancy]

@LoveYeshua
Love your OP. I had been texting with one of my brothers who has been involved in the modern church for decades. He doesn't want to listen to anything against them. I think he thinks I am causing division and, he rarely if ever replies to the scripture I send him.

I will copy paste what I wrote him yesterday:

We have to take up our cross every day Matt, and endure to the end so, it is not what the sleepy modern church tells everyone that after a little alter call, say a few words and poof, you are saved forever!! That never sat well with me.
Picking up your cross and sharing in the suffering of Christ means actively dying to your own selfish desires, surrendering your will to God, and being willing to endure hardship or rejection for the sake of the Gospel. It is a daily commitment to follow Jesus, no matter the cost.

"Taking Up Your Cross
Denying Yourself: Jesus commanded, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." (Matthew 16:24).

A Daily Commitment: In Luke 9:23, Jesus specifies that this is not a one-time event, adding that we must take up our cross "daily."

Prioritizing Christ Above All: Jesus says, "Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:27)."


Sharing in the Sufferings of Christ:

Fellowship and Glory: "Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we SHARE IN HIS SUFFERING in order that we may also share in his glory." (Romans 8:17).
Identifying with His Death: Paul wrote, "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me." (Galatians 2:20).
Rejoicing in Trials: "But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed." (1 Peter 4:13).

The Goal of Knowing Him: Paul expresses his desire "that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death." (Philippians 3:10).

The Heart Behind the Sufferings:

For His Sake: "For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel's will save it." (Mark 8:35).
Enduring Rejection: Jesus reminds us, "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you... A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you." (John 15:18, 20)."

Luke 13:23-24
23 "Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,"
24 STRIVE to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."


2 Corinthians 5:10
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

Philippians 2:12
"So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK OUT your own salvation with fear and trembling;"

Matthew 24:13
"But the one who ENDURES TO THE END will be saved."


Matthew 10:22
"And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who ENDURES TO THE END will be saved."

Hebrews 3:14
For we have come to share in Christ, IF indeed we hold our original confidence firm TO THE END.


Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, and KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus."

Luke 13:23-24
24 "STRIVE TO ENTER in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able"

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is , however , different than the jews who added circumsion . UNLESS
one do as a certain fat Unholy R double C did . THEY believed wrong .
THEY baptized infants . Now any water baptizim without FAITH IN HE WHO DOES SAVE ,
its about useless as can be . So when one adds things as a means TO be saved , OTHER THAN FAITH IN JESUS ,
WE got problems .
Many look to works to save them . RATHER than seeing works as evidence one has BEEN saved .
NOW we are to remind one another to do good and to abstain from all evil .
Cause sin is a real nasty thing indeed .
And wise it is for sheep to exhort one another daily , WITH THE TRUTH , lest any do
become hardned through the decietfulness of sin .
OH i have seen what sin can do to many a church . WHEN leaven is not corrected
for sake of judge not correct not , GOODNESS that church sure has went d ownhill .
YOU should see what many of them now accept as good and what they now call evil .
Certain sins are now accepted , even called GOOD .
AND any guesses on what is now called evil . THE WORDS IN THAT BIBLE . boy oh boy we gots problems my friend .

Yes it is the same.

1. The jew claimed salvation would not be granted unless one is circumcized first.
2. The baptismal regnerationalist says salvation will not be granted unless one is baptized in water first.

Circumcision and water baptism are both called works.. Both were commanded by God. one in the OT one in the new. Neither of them have anything to do with a persons eternal state

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@LoveYeshua
Love your OP. I had been texting with one of my brothers who has been involved in the modern church for decades. He doesn't want to listen to anything against them. I think he thinks I am causing division and, he rarely if ever replies to the scripture I send him.

I will copy paste what I wrote him yesterday:

We have to take up our cross every day Matt, and endure to the end so, it is not what the sleepy modern church tells everyone that after a little alter call, say a few words and poof, you are saved forever!! That never sat well with me.

But in context. it is in essence true.

Jesus was sent not to condemn the world. but that it might be saved. Whoever recieved him in faith. is given eternal life. and they shall never perish. (john 3)

Jesus said but as many as recieved him, to them he made sons. (john 1: 12)

Jesus said whoever drinks of that water will never thirst but have living water to eternal life (john 4)

Jesus said whoever hears his words and believes has eternal life. and shall not come into judgment but has passed from death to life

Jesus said he is the bread of life. Whoever comes to him, eats this bread from heaven, Will never hunger, never thirst, Will never be cast out, Will never be lost. Will be raised on the last day. Has eternal life. will live forever and will never die (john 6)

Paul said the moment we trust in him, after hearing the words. we are given the HS at that time who is the pledge of our inheritance. (eph 1)

Paul said because of Gods great love, he has made us alive together in him and made us sit in heavenly places As we are saved (a completed action) by Grace (eph 2)

Paul said he has saved us ( a completed action) and called us based on his grace. (2 tim 1: 9)

Paul said the kindness of God has saved us, By his mercy. not by our works (titus 3)

The moment a person recieved the gift of Life. They are adopted as sons, Justified forever, Positional sanctified or set apart by the HS, Given eternal life. and Have Gods promise he will never leave nor forsake them.

God did all this KNOWING everything that person would do until the day they died. So no one will suprise God, God knows. and saved anyway

But God also knows who has true faith. and who has just words.. He does not just save someone who calls out to him in words.. but in faith. Thats why he said in that day he will have to say to many depart for he never knew them

Picking up your cross and sharing in the suffering of Christ means actively dying to your own selfish desires, surrendering your will to God, and being willing to endure hardship or rejection for the sake of the Gospel. It is a daily commitment to follow Jesus, no matter the cost.

"Taking Up Your Cross
Denying Yourself: Jesus commanded, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." (Matthew 16:24).

A Daily Commitment: In Luke 9:23, Jesus specifies that this is not a one-time event, adding that we must take up our cross "daily."

Prioritizing Christ Above All: Jesus says, "Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:27)."


Sharing in the Sufferings of Christ:

Fellowship and Glory: "Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we SHARE IN HIS SUFFERING in order that we may also share in his glory." (Romans 8:17).
Identifying with His Death: Paul wrote, "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me." (Galatians 2:20).
Rejoicing in Trials: "But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed." (1 Peter 4:13).

The Goal of Knowing Him: Paul expresses his desire "that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death." (Philippians 3:10).

The Heart Behind the Sufferings:

For His Sake: "For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel's will save it." (Mark 8:35).
Enduring Rejection: Jesus reminds us, "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you... A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you." (John 15:18, 20)."

Luke 13:23-24
23 "Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,"
24 STRIVE to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."


2 Corinthians 5:10
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

Philippians 2:12
"So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK OUT your own salvation with fear and trembling;"

Matthew 24:13
"But the one who ENDURES TO THE END will be saved."


Matthew 10:22
"And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who ENDURES TO THE END will be saved."

Hebrews 3:14
For we have come to share in Christ, IF indeed we hold our original confidence firm TO THE END.


Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, and KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus."

Luke 13:23-24
24 "STRIVE TO ENTER in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able"

this is for us to grow in christ.. if we want the best life we can have this side of eternality. this is what we must do.

We do not do this to get saved. Or stay saved.. Salvation is a grace gift. not a downpayment for our works.

Sadly.. which churches seem to turn grace to licentiousness. say it does not matter what you do afterwords. you say this sinners prayer you are saved.. Its not the prayer that saves, it is faith.

 

[faithhopecharity]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism was absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism *Hermeneutics.

*If he who believes shall be saved then he who believes and is baptized shall be saved as well. Yet who will be condemned?

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

he who believes what a Christ says "he who believes and is baptized shall be saved "!

or commands mt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Psalm 1:3
And he shall be like a tree planted bythe rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

the fathers say this refers to faith in the cross and baptism!

The faith the fathers of Nicea!

"One baptism for the remission of sins"!

“My Witnesses” (Acts 1:8)

The sacrament of Baptism is required for salvation!

St. Ambrose
St. Augustine
St. Justin Martyr
Tertullian
Pope St. Leo I
Origen
St. Cyril of Jerusalem
Fulgentius of Ruspe
Hippolytus
St. Irenaeus

Matt 16:18-19 binding on all Christians!

“Without the Sacrament of Baptism, no one is ever justified, If anyone says that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema." Council of Trent

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism was absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism *Hermeneutics.

*If he who believes shall be saved then he who believes and is baptized shall be saved as well. Yet who will be condemned?

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

g

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism was absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism *Hermeneutics.

*If he who believes shall be saved then he who believes and is baptized shall be saved as well. Yet who will be condemned?

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!

It is Reasonable that if one rejects faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

And it don't say he who believes is saved!

So don’t negate the word of God or the eternal words of Jesus by trying to delete one verse with another.

the faith required by the words: "he does not believe is condemned" are the very words of Christ! he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Nowhere does scripture say salvation is by “faith alone”! Rom 13:11
Or that we died with Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we put in Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we are in the church by “faith alone”!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism was absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism *Hermeneutics.

*If he who believes shall be saved then he who believes and is baptized shall be saved as well. Yet who will be condemned?

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Ministered by the apostolic church!

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism was absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism *Hermeneutics.

*If he who believes shall be saved then he who believes and is baptized shall be saved as well. Yet who will be condemned?

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Jn 1: 11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Baptism)
John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)

John3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:1
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Act 2:38-41
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
(Justified by baptism)


more?

 

[LoveYeshua]

@LoveYeshua
Love your OP. I had been texting with one of my brothers who has been involved in the modern church for decades. He doesn't want to listen to anything against them. I think he thinks I am causing division and, he rarely if ever replies to the scripture I send him.

I will copy paste what I wrote him yesterday:

We have to take up our cross every day Matt, and endure to the end so, it is not what the sleepy modern church tells everyone that after a little alter call, say a few words and poof, you are saved forever!! That never sat well with me.
Picking up your cross and sharing in the suffering of Christ means actively dying to your own selfish desires, surrendering your will to God, and being willing to endure hardship or rejection for the sake of the Gospel. It is a daily commitment to follow Jesus, no matter the cost.

"Taking Up Your Cross
Denying Yourself: Jesus commanded, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." (Matthew 16:24).

A Daily Commitment: In Luke 9:23, Jesus specifies that this is not a one-time event, adding that we must take up our cross "daily."

Prioritizing Christ Above All: Jesus says, "Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:27)."


Sharing in the Sufferings of Christ:

Fellowship and Glory: "Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we SHARE IN HIS SUFFERING in order that we may also share in his glory." (Romans 8:17).
Identifying with His Death: Paul wrote, "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me." (Galatians 2:20).
Rejoicing in Trials: "But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed." (1 Peter 4:13).

The Goal of Knowing Him: Paul expresses his desire "that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death." (Philippians 3:10).

The Heart Behind the Sufferings:

For His Sake: "For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel's will save it." (Mark 8:35).
Enduring Rejection: Jesus reminds us, "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you... A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you." (John 15:18, 20)."

Luke 13:23-24
23 "Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,"
24 STRIVE to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."


2 Corinthians 5:10
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

Philippians 2:12
"So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK OUT your own salvation with fear and trembling;"

Matthew 24:13
"But the one who ENDURES TO THE END will be saved."


Matthew 10:22
"And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who ENDURES TO THE END will be saved."

Hebrews 3:14
For we have come to share in Christ, IF indeed we hold our original confidence firm TO THE END.


Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, and KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus."

Luke 13:23-24
24 "STRIVE TO ENTER in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able"

thank you for sharing this letter, It is pretty good! the part of taking up out cross daily is particurlarly important, it indicates the difficulty of following Christ and also the need to focus on the present and not dwell on past mistakes. Jesus said also ; " Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Today has enough trouble of its own." Matt. 6:34


Blessings Sister

 

[mailmandan]

g

Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!

It is Reasonable that if one rejects faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

And it don't say he who believes is saved!

So don’t negate the word of God or the eternal words of Jesus by trying to delete one verse with another.

the faith required by the words: "he does not believe is condemned" are the very words of Christ! he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Nowhere does scripture say salvation is by “faith alone”! Rom 13:11
Or that we died with Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we put in Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we are in the church by “faith alone”!

thks

I properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. Don't confuse Spirit baptism (1 Corinthians 12:13) with water baptism.

In regard to faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) which is not to be confused with a bare profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone/barren of works (James 2:14),
the Bible makes it clear in many passages of scripture that man is saved through belief/faith - "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Now you don't need to "add" the word "alone" or "not baptized" next to "belief/faith" in each of those passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, baptism? Plus, works? NO. So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone.

 

[mailmandan]

Jn 1: 11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Baptism)
John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)

John3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:1
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Act 2:38-41
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
(Justified by baptism)

more?

More eisegesis? No thanks. In John 1:12, we clearly read that we become children of God by believing in His name and not by baptism. You "added" the word baptism in John 1:13. In 1 Peter 1:23, we read - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, which says nothing about baptism.

In regard to the word "water" in John 3:5,
there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels water with being born out of a mother’s womb and with flesh based on the answer of Nicodemus to Jesus. Simply stated in that case, two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth accompanied by amniotic "water" and the second is Spirit.

Now in regard to water, Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. Jesus also connects this water with eternal life.

Now if "water" is defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So, to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

Yet we also see in scripture that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

In regard to John 3:22, by this time Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus is over with and He has moved on. John 3:22 - After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. Verse 22 is out of context with verse 5. What is still in context with verse 5 are verses 14-18.

In Acts 2:38, for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

In Acts 10:43, we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So, the only Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17-18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

 

[faithhopecharity]

Repent (change your mind) -- new direction of this change of mind -- believe/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Two sides to the same coin. Inseparable.

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent and believe the gospel.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

be converted implies a full change of behavior from the works of the flesh to the works of righteousness or the works of the Spirit!

"the way of righteousness"

ps 23:3 leads in right paths

mt 7:14 narrow road

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

all imply works

Jn 15:4 abide in Christ & bear fruit
Lk 3:9 bear fruit
Lk 1:75 acts 10:35 deeds of righteousness
phil 1:11 fruits of righteousness
mt 26:41 watch and pray
mk 24:48 watch and pray
Lk 21:36 Watch and pray, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
mt 7:7 ask and you shall receive
Lk 9:23 phil 1:29 daily, deny thyself, take up thy cross and follow me.
ps 23:3 leads in paths (deeds) of righteousness acts 10:35
mt 7:14 narrow road that leads to life
2 pet 3:18 grow in grace
heb 6:12 faith & patience
rev 2:19 faith, patience, & works
rev 14:12 commandments, patience, & faith
mt 19:17 Jn 14:21 1 cor 7:19 1Jn 3:24 1 Jn 5:2-3 rev 12:17 keep the commandments
mt 10:22 mk 13:13 mt 24:13 endure to the end in patient suffering
rev 2:10 he who overcomes I shall give the crown of life!

all imply works

grace enables good works
2 cor 12:9

law implies works

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Repent (change your mind) -- new direction of this change of mind -- believe/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Two sides to the same coin. Inseparable.

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent and believe the gospel.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

((walking refers to the performance of deeds))


Gal 6:7-8

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

((sowing refers to the performance of deeds))

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

((to live according to the flesh or according to Spirit refers to to the performance of deeds))

It impossible to walk, sow, or live without deeds!

The rightous walk, sow, & live by the deeds of the Spirit!

thks

 

[mailmandan]

be converted implies a full change of behavior from the works of the flesh to the works of righteousness or the works of the Spirit!

"the way of righteousness"

ps 23:3 leads in right paths

mt 7:14 narrow road

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

all imply works

Jn 15:4 abide in Christ & bear fruit
Lk 3:9 bear fruit
Lk 1:75 acts 10:35 deeds of righteousness
phil 1:11 fruits of righteousness
mt 26:41 watch and pray
mk 24:48 watch and pray
Lk 21:36 Watch and pray, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
mt 7:7 ask and you shall receive
Lk 9:23 phil 1:29 daily, deny thyself, take up thy cross and follow me.
ps 23:3 leads in paths (deeds) of righteousness acts 10:35
mt 7:14 narrow road that leads to life
2 pet 3:18 grow in grace
heb 6:12 faith & patience
rev 2:19 faith, patience, & works
rev 14:12 commandments, patience, & faith
mt 19:17 Jn 14:21 1 cor 7:19 1Jn 3:24 1 Jn 5:2-3 rev 12:17 keep the commandments
mt 10:22 mk 13:13 mt 24:13 endure to the end in patient suffering
rev 2:10 he who overcomes I shall give the crown of life!

all imply works

grace enables good works
2 cor 12:9

law implies works

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

thks

Try not to confuse the essence of repentance (change of mind) with the fruit of repentance. (works - Matthew 3:8; Acts 26:20) We are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) and we cannot place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation unless we first repent (cause) fruit of repentance (effect).

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes it is the same.

1. The jew claimed salvation would not be granted unless one is circumcized first.
2. The baptismal regnerationalist says salvation will not be granted unless one is baptized in water first.

Circumcision and water baptism are both called works.. Both were commanded by God. one in the OT one in the new. Neither of them have anything to do with a persons eternal state

technically , however it proves who one follows .
Oh i fully know its simply faith in JESUS that saves .
I mean it aint me gathering with satans interfaith interreligious diagloue
THAT DARN SURE HAS MADE VOID the DIRE NECESSITY TO BELEIVE ON JESUS
But i just wonder who has run to men who bring us this anti christ abraham peace accords
this interfaith interreligious diaglogue .
IT WONT mat ter what kind of knowledge they had or thought they did
Any who runs to that is running to that which is of anti christ . THAT IS WHY I WARN .
Now as far as being water baptized , some do see it wrongly , as if a water being poured one someone
is what saved their soul .
HOWEVER if we are HIS we had done what he commands . t hat too is a fact my friend .

 

[mailmandan]

rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Not walking after the flesh, but after the Spirit is 'descriptive' of those who are in Christ.

((walking refers to the performance of deeds))

Its about the direction of our walk and not the perfection of our walk.

Gal 6:7-8

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

((sowing refers to the performance of deeds))

In regard to Galatians 6:7-8, the one who is continuously (Greek present tense) sowing to his own corrupt flesh, which is opposed to God and unrenewed by the Holy Spirit shall of the flesh reap corruption. Our life here is sowing of one kind or another. But he who sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap everlasting life. See the contrast?

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

((to live according to the flesh or according to Spirit refers to to the performance of deeds))

It impossible to walk, sow, or live without deeds!

The rightous walk, sow, & live by the deeds of the Spirit!

thks

In Romans 8, Paul sets up a contrast between those who live according to the flesh (unbelievers/false brethren) and those who live according to the Spirit (believers). In verses 8-9, Paul clearly states - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Again, see the contrast?

 

[amigo de christo]

It's good to see you! I enjoy getting older. It's no worries.

TO the trenches dear sister . To the trenches . and raise those children up in the way of the glorious LORD .
GOD , Christ first , then spouses and children second , then us lastly .
Always put GOD , CHRIST first before all , then the welfare of others even above your own .
Now lets examine what i just wrote .
CAUSE I KNOW OF SOMEONE who did just that . GOD HIS FATHER FIRST , then the needs of humanity
above his own . And believe you me HE DId just that . HE WENT EVEN TO THE CROSS for humanity .
ALWAYS pleasing TO GOD he was . ALWAYS doing that which is pleasing to THE FATHER HE DID .
WE sure can learn FROM HIM sister . as i am sure you do ag ree .

 

[amigo de christo]

@LoveYeshua
Love your OP. I had been texting with one of my brothers who has been involved in the modern church for decades. He doesn't want to listen to anything against them. I think he thinks I am causing division and, he rarely if ever replies to the scripture I send him.

I will copy paste what I wrote him yesterday:

We have to take up our cross every day Matt, and endure to the end so, it is not what the sleepy modern church tells everyone that after a little alter call, say a few words and poof, you are saved forever!! That never sat well with me.
Picking up your cross and sharing in the suffering of Christ means actively dying to your own selfish desires, surrendering your will to God, and being willing to endure hardship or rejection for the sake of the Gospel. It is a daily commitment to follow Jesus, no matter the cost.

"Taking Up Your Cross
Denying Yourself: Jesus commanded, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." (Matthew 16:24).

A Daily Commitment: In Luke 9:23, Jesus specifies that this is not a one-time event, adding that we must take up our cross "daily."

Prioritizing Christ Above All: Jesus says, "Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:27)."


Sharing in the Sufferings of Christ:

Fellowship and Glory: "Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we SHARE IN HIS SUFFERING in order that we may also share in his glory." (Romans 8:17).
Identifying with His Death: Paul wrote, "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me." (Galatians 2:20).
Rejoicing in Trials: "But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed." (1 Peter 4:13).

The Goal of Knowing Him: Paul expresses his desire "that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death." (Philippians 3:10).

The Heart Behind the Sufferings:

For His Sake: "For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel's will save it." (Mark 8:35).
Enduring Rejection: Jesus reminds us, "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you... A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you." (John 15:18, 20)."

Luke 13:23-24
23 "Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,"
24 STRIVE to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."


2 Corinthians 5:10
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

Philippians 2:12
"So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK OUT your own salvation with fear and trembling;"

Matthew 24:13
"But the one who ENDURES TO THE END will be saved."


Matthew 10:22
"And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who ENDURES TO THE END will be saved."

Hebrews 3:14
For we have come to share in Christ, IF indeed we hold our original confidence firm TO THE END.


Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, and KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus."

Luke 13:23-24
24 "STRIVE TO ENTER in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able"

BINGO sister . spot on right .
And this is often the case with many . THEY often say HEY you the ones causing division .
Rather odd , however is the fact that their unity is what has caused divisions .
DIVISIONS in doctrine . Dissumlation has grown massive through their mindset .
And oh yeah , YOU notice that too . THEY never hardly have squat to do with scripture .
And perhaps what little they do use , OH ITS taken out of text for sake of unity and who knows what else .

 

[amigo de christo]

rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

((walking refers to the performance of deeds))


Gal 6:7-8

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

((sowing refers to the performance of deeds))

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

((to live according to the flesh or according to Spirit refers to to the performance of deeds))

It impossible to walk, sow, or live without deeds!

The rightous walk, sow, & live by the deeds of the Spirit!

thks

So then why are so many walking after the flesh these days .
WHY are so many so fast to accept sin and so fast to condemn those who correct sin in those churches .
I sees me a skittles rainbow jesus getting sold .
I seems me a very strange and diverse koran kissing , budda statue accepting jesus g etting sold .
THE ONLY problem is , JESUS IS NOT the MINSTIR OF SIN and UNBELEIF . so yeah
we do have us a major problem with the wicked harlots ecumeincal interfaith flow .

 

[amigo de christo]

Jn 1: 11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Baptism)
John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)

John3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:1
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Act 2:38-41
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
(Justified by baptism)


more?

notice that says to as many WHO do what . Who do what . WHO recieve HIM .
YOU GO and take a good long look at that ecumeincal anti christ interfaith interreligious dialogue .
CAUSE IT SAYS QUITE the OPPOSITE . And folks want ME to unify with that . A resounding HECK NO is what i say .
I expose THAT .

 

[amigo de christo]

thank you for sharing this letter, It is pretty good! the part of taking up out cross daily is particurlarly important, it indicates the difficulty of following Christ and also the need to focus on the present and not dwell on past mistakes. Jesus said also ; " Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Today has enough trouble of its own." Matt. 6:34


Blessings Sister

rather than taking up their cross daily , i sees many living in sin daily , justifying sin daily
and justifying now EVEN UNBELIEF .
but to them , they claim they LOVE GOD , LOVE CHRIST .
Strange .
Very strange indeed .
I see me a skittles jesus of the rainbow getting sold
i see a jesus who accepts sins getting sold
I even see a jesus who kisses on korans , budda stautes and claims THE FALSE RELIGOINS
WHO DO DENY HIM , hey they coming TO GOD in different ways .
And that sounds like l ove to them . THEY beleive that is the plan of GOD for peace .
Really .
JUST remember JESUS IS NOT THE MINISTIR OF SIN AND UNBELIEF .