When Jesus "took away" your sin, did He leave behind the source, the sin nature?

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PS95

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I see a few who do not believe Jesus destroyed the works of Satan. Not all.

Don't you know that this body is like a floppy puppet? It is NOT sinning on its own. That is why it doesn't have to be born again now, but can wait until our resurrection from the dead. What is born again NOW is our nature, the puppet masters! The "old man."

I'll include everyone to not shine a light on those who slap Jesus in the face.

cc: @RedLetterJoe @marks @Episkopos @PS95 @Gray_Joy

I praise Jesus for His supernatural life working within me. I could do nothing on my own. He did it all. And only He will know when He has completed the good work He started.
As to your verse in Hebrews 10:2- You are reading something into that which is not there. I offer you 3 old commentaries in my next post that explain better than I do.
"For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins."

1.Barnes' Notes on the Bible

Because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sin - That is, if their sacrifices remove their past sins, to give forgiveness, they would have had no more trouble of conscience on account of them. They would not have felt that it was necessary to make these sacrifices over and over again in order to find peace. When a man has full evidence that an atonement has been made which will meet all the demands of the Law, and which secures the remission of sin, he feels that it is enough.. But when he does "not" feel this peace, or has no evidence that his sins are all forgiven, those sins will rise to remembrance, and he will be alarmed. He may be punished for them after all. if a man wants peace he should have good evidence that his sins are forgiven through the blood of the atonement.
No temporary expedient; no attempt to cover them up; no effort to forget them will answer the purpose. They "must be blotted out" if he will have peace - and that can be only through a perfect sacrifice.
By the use of the word rendered "conscience" here, it is not meant that he who was pardoned would have no "consciousness" that he was a sinner, or that he would forget it, but that he would have no trouble of conscience; he would have no apprehension of future wrath. The pardon of sin does not cause it to cease to be remembered. He who is forgiven may have a deeper conviction of its evil than he had ever had before. But he will not be troubled or distressed by it as if it were to expose him to the wrath of God. The remembrance of it will humble him; it will serve to exalt his conceptions of the mercy of God and the glory of the atonement, but it will no longer overwhelm the mind with the dread of wrath. The very fact that they did it, showed that the conscience was not at peace.

2. Matthew Poole's Commentary
Because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins: for then this effect would have followed, the worshippers who were to be atoned for or expiated by these sacrifices, if they had perfected them, i.e. pardoned, justified, and acquitted them from guilt of sin and punishment, there would have nothing remained to have troubled, vexed, or tormented their souls, they being no further accused or condemned by their conscience about sin, God having justified and sanctified them, Hebrews 9:14,26,28; compare Romans 5:1,2,11.

3. Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Because the worshippers, once purged, would have had no more conscience of sins; there are external and internal worshippers; the latter are such who worship God in Spirit and in truth: but here ceremonial worshippers are meant, who, if they had been really purged from sin by legal sacrifices, and purifications, would have had no more conscience of sins, and so have had no need to have repeated them; as such spiritual worshippers, who are once purged from sin by the blood and sacrifice of Christ; not that they have no sin, or no sense of sin, or that their consciences are seared, or that they never accuse for sin, or that they are to make no confession and acknowledgment of sin; but that they are discharged from the guilt of sin, and are not liable to condemnation for it; and through the application of the blood of Christ to them, have peace with God, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
 

Lizbeth

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Your doctrine of Sinless Perfectionism from a second work of grace is an old Pentecostal heresy.

You make up phrases and definitions that are unbiblical: “willful lawless sins unto death against the Ten Commandments”, “immature fruit of the Spirit you commit unintentionally”, “righteousness is sinlessness of sins unto death”.

Your definition of holiness is absurd: “Holiness is more than righteousness; it is perfection of BOTH types of sin“.

You incoherently scramble unintentional sins with immature fruit of the Spirit.

Nobody understands your muddled statements that indicate a confused mind and a holier than thou arrogance.
I don't think we should limit God to our experience. Is anything impossible with God? It is not arrogant to think we can be like Jesus...since we are called to become conformed to Him and like Him. We are called to be perfect as He is perfect and holy as He is holy.

Mat 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


Luk 6:40
The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.


1Jo 2:5-6
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


1Jo 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


Heb 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
 
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PS95

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I don't think we should limit God to our experience. Is anything impossible with God? It is not arrogant to think we can be like Jesus...since we are called to become conformed to Him and like Him. We are called to be perfect as He is perfect and holy as He is holy.

Mat 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


Luk 6:40
The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.


1Jo 2:5-6
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


1Jo 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


Heb 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
Hi lizbeth- do you believe that we are perfected in love as john wrote? I do. Anyway I agree with your verses and this is definitely been my experience. We are growing daily- being refined by God as we abide in Him.
To say, I will never even sin again though for the rest of my days is not something that I see in scripture. Do you?
What do you think about a momentary thought?

At any rate- this is not exactly what the Op is about- she is saying she has never sinned since being born again. - she can't! she has no sin nature while she accuses us of slapping Jesus who say we do still have the "ability" to sin due to flesh vs spirit battle in us.
you don't agree with that, do you?

 
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1stCenturyLady

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Where did Jesus teach us that?
In John 8:32 Jesus said, "the truth shall set you free." Then He goes on in 34-36

“Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Free from what? SIN. So because all of us can die, even Jesus, it has nothing to do with us or Jesus sinning, but Adam's willful sin that condemned the whole world. Everything with life within it dies. Not because of Eve, but because of Adam.
 
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marks

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Our body is dying because of ADAM'S SIN not OUR still sinning.
That's not what the Bible says, and contradicts the Bible.

Romans 5:12 KJV
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The reason death passed to all men is that "for that all have sinned". You die because you've sinned.

Much love!
 
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marks

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So because all of us can die, even Jesus, it has nothing to do with us or Jesus sinning, but Adam's willful sin that condemned the whole world. Everything with life within it dies. Not because of Eve, but because of Adam.
Jesus died because He dismissed His Spirit, not because He sinned. Man dies because man sins, no exceptions. Jesus died sinless having released His spirit. Do you see the difference between these to scenarios?

Much love!
 
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1stCenturyLady

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I would never slap my Lord in the face. If I misunderstand something then please explain yourself better rather than throw a terrible accusation at me.
It wasn't about you. Thanks for asking to clear that up. I had one person in mind actually who should know better. But I didn't want to accuse him publicly by singling him out. Surely, if you read it again more carefully, you will reason that out.

How many people do you know that memorizes the first part of 1 John 2:1. "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin."

Sinning Christians always quote the second part, not realizing that John is talking about John 3:16 on how to become a Christian. Jesus died for the whole world and is the world's Advocate. Sinning Christians also brag about their sins and revile anyone who believes Jesus succeeded in cleansing them from all sin. For instance, sinning Christians see 1 John 1:9 as a get out of hell free card, using it every time they willfully sin, as if Jesus will go through the crucifixion again for them over and over and over again. Hebrews 10:26-31.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.

Colossians 3:1-17
1If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
5Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
8But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 11where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.
12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. 14But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. 15And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful. 16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.
A born again Christian walking in the Spirit is keeping themselves from these things. The key is walking in the Spirit given to us. Some people quote Romans 8:1 from their modern versions of the Bible, whereas, the condition of walking in the Spirit is what makes the first part true. "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Modern versions: There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. Do you see how important the condition is?

Walking in the Spirit can be a way of life if practiced long enough. Then you are automatically keeping yourselves from all the sins of the devil. Jesus said, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

1 John 5:18 "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

Paul knew there was a condition that must be met AFTER we have been given the power of the Holy Spirit of Christ. So he warns us.
 

1stCenturyLady

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That's not what the Bible says, and contradicts the Bible.

Romans 5:12 KJV
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The reason death passed to all men is that "for that all have sinned". You die because you've sinned.

Much love!
All have sinned because of inheriting the sin nature passed down from Adam.

So Jesus was able to DIE for us because HE sinned according to you.
 

marks

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All have sinned because of inheriting the sin nature passed down from Adam.

So Jesus was able to die for us because He sinned according to you.
Compare your words to what I actually wrote:

Jesus died because He dismissed His Spirit, not because He sinned. Man dies because man sins, no exceptions. Jesus died sinless having released His spirit. Do you see the difference between these to scenarios?

Much love!
You are a false witness, telling lies about me, you who proclaims your sinlessness.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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Jesus died because He dismissed His Spirit, not because He sinned. Man dies because man sins, no exceptions. Jesus died sinless having released His spirit. Do you see the difference between these to scenarios?

Much love!
We all know Jesus was sinless.

I'm curious if you even know what sin is when you believe it is in our body? That makes us filthy until we die, not righteous/sinless or holy/perfect. We cannot still be sinning sins unto death when we die and still receive a new body.
 

Gray_Joy

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Hi lizbeth- do you believe that we are perfected in love as john wrote? I do. Anyway I agree with your verses and this is definitely been my experience. We are growing daily- being refined by God as we abide in Him.
To say, I will never even sin again though for the rest of my days is not something that I see in scripture. Do you?
What do you think about a momentary thought?

At any rate- this is not exactly what the Op is about- she is saying she has never sinned since being born again. - she can't! she has no sin nature while she accuses us of slapping Jesus who say we do still have the "ability" to sin due to flesh vs spirit battle in us.
you don't agree with that, do you?

I think personal example is testimony of Christ and his holy spirit gospel working within us.

I would be a miserable fraud were I to attest,I am sinless! While casting judgemental aspersions upon others whom I criticize for their disagreement with my point of view.

I cannot sin while insisting I am sinless.

Ephesians 4 doesn't tell me I will be sinless in this flesh. Instead,it tells me I will grow in Christ.

I think we should realize, righteous understanding will not arrive in that which tells us,they have a thick skin when facing those making that effort of correction.
Thick skin tells you, they have resisted correction for a long time.

Let God do the work.

Meanwhile,pray their thick flesh of this world should thin out under the blessing of his light.

I feel the OP of this thread is indeed a shame.

I see it as intending to flaunt the authors error as something righteous instead. So to boast to others of their superiority, while they judge us for not being like minded.

My advice is, , don't get mad.

Keep your peace and breathe the breath of light and life into your emotions before posting.

Love.
Even when they're wrong.

Only God can set them aright.
 
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marks

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We all know Jesus was sinless.
You've just accused me falsely of attributing sin to Jesus. Along with your other false (meaning sinful) accusations against me. You are on a tear to put me down out of your way, and you are doing it with lies.

Houston, we have a problem!
 
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marks

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I'm curious if you even know what sin is when you believe it is in our body? That makes us filthy until we die, not righteous/sinless or holy/perfect. We cannot still be sinning sins unto death when we die and still receive a new body.
I encourage you to stop trying to appear something you are not, and trust Jesus fully and completely.

Much love!
 

PS95

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It wasn't about you. Thanks for asking to clear that up. I had one person in mind actually who should know better. But I didn't want to accuse him publicly by singling him out. Surely, if you read it again more carefully, you will reason that out.
You tagged me so I figured you meant me also.
How many people do you know that memorizes the first part of 1 John 2:1. "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin."
Sinning Christians always quote the second part, not realizing that John is talking about John 3:16 on how to become a Christian. Jesus died for the whole world and is the world's Advocate. Sinning Christians also brag about their sins and revile anyone who believes Jesus succeeded in cleansing them from all sin.
I have never bragged about sinning. That's awful. John is plainly reminding the little children who are believers not to sin- BUT if they DO they have Jesus as their mediator. I can not in no way dismiss this plain reading. We are forgiven all of our past sins and if we do sin after we can be forgiven if we confess. Just assuming you have no sin is dangerous, You are never convicted by the Spirit for a momentary prideful thought or anger at a brother etc? Did you ever not give money to a beggar because you thought he was lying and would spend it on drugs? Are we not to give to all who ask of us?
If you are never ever convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit then I either congratulate you on your sinlessness ,or I worry that you don't hear the Spirit who is there to guide you and convict you, remind you, teach you, and comfort you?
For instance, sinning Christians see 1 John 1:9 as a get out of hell free card, using it every time they willfully sin, as if Jesus will go through the crucifixion again for them over and over and over again. Hebrews 10:26-31.
Perhaps some do that. I certainly don't.
I also don think it is re-crucifying the Lord if we tell Him we are sorry for a sin and thanking Him for His sacrifice for us.
A born again Christian walking in the Spirit is keeping themselves from these things. The key is walking in the Spirit given to us. Some people quote Romans 8:1 from their modern versions of the Bible, whereas, the condition of walking in the Spirit is what makes the first part true. "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Modern versions: There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. Do you see how important the condition is?
I agree with you that a Christian wants to stay far away from those sins. But you miss the point. Paul was speaking TO Christians. To say they were not capable of any of those sins makes Paul ridiculous. We "Can" sin- but we don't desire to any longer! He is reminding them not to sin just as John did. you are twisting this. it is very plain.
Walking in the Spirit can be a way of life if practiced long enough. Then you are automatically keeping yourselves from all the sins of the devil. Jesus said, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
We do not sin when we are walking in the Spirit- I agree.
BUT you are dismissing that we are still capable of walking in the flesh- although we should not.
1 John 5:18 "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
God keep us from sin and we must abide.
but we are not string puppets and we have the ability to disobey Him. I do not advise it - punishments are severe.
Paul knew there was a condition that must be met AFTER we have been given the power of the Holy Spirit of Christ. So he warns us.
I don't know what this is in reference to and I don't appreciate they way you chopped my replies and only quote little pieces!
This is a non-reply in my view. I will leave the discussion now as I see it's futile to discuss with you. This is not our first rodeo. You do what many here do- you just ignore what you don't like. I wish you peace.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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You've just accused me falsely of attributing sin to Jesus. Along with your other false (meaning sinful) accusations against me. You are on a tear to put me down out of your way, and you are doing it with lies.

Houston, we have a problem!
No, dear, you have a problem. A long-standing emotional problem which is why I included everyone to not point the finger. But you are doing a skillful job of uncovering that yourself. Now we all know who I meant, but tried to hide.

Sin is not in the body. That is why it doesn't requiring being born again NOW before we die. It dies because of where sin DID abide in us, not on us. Adam.
 
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PS95

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What about the words "never stumble" mean to you?

cc: @Lizbeth
are you referring to 2 Peter 1:5-10? Yes as you can see Peter is teaching how NOT to stumble. That is the opposite of saying we can never sin if we are born again. We should be growing more to be like the Lord- but we are not automatically sinless once born again!


1Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 3seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. 4For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
12Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you. 13I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder, 14knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you will be able to call these things to mind.
 

marks

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Now we all know who I meant,
At last you can clearly speak your intent.

Your words reveal you, and yes, my words reveal me.

Consider your words, and what they have revealed.

You have accused me falsely of much in this thread. We've had these discussions before, yet you have chosen to post as you have. This is willful lying, according to you, a "sin unto death".

Look to yourself.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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At last you can clearly speak your intent.

Your words reveal you, and yes, my words reveal me.

Consider your words, and what they have revealed.

You have accused me falsely of much in this thread. We've had these discussions before, yet you have chosen to post as you have. This is willful lying, according to you, a "sin unto death".

Look to yourself.
Do you really believe the OP was meant for you?

It is meant for THE CHURCH because of the false doctrines in this day and age of the "falling away." Are you falling away too? Do you sin because you haven't died yet?

Or do you no longer sin because Jesus has redeemed your spirit and soul?
 

PS95

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That's not what the Bible says, and contradicts the Bible.

Romans 5:12 KJV
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The reason death passed to all men is that "for that all have sinned". You die because you've sinned.

Much love!
Thank you! I agree! That is an oldie from the JWs- When they sin it's all Adams's fault. The purposefully leave off the last part of the verse.
NKJV- 2Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned
 
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