The Date of the Lord delivering Israel.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Apr 7, 2026
395
54
28
74
Lexington KY
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
o A charismatic leader will arise in Israel and broker a peace accord with Israel's Middle-Eastern enemies. He will oversee the reconstruction of Israel's temple, and then sit in it, as though he were God. (Daniel 9:27)

o Meanwhile the peace accord will dwindle, and a confrontation will occur at the plain of Har Megiddo, a.k.a. Armageddon. (Revelation 16:16)

o Before the battle begins, angels led by Jesus will descend and decimate both parties. (Revelation 19:1-20).

o Jesus will then reign at Jerusalem for 1000 years. (Revelation 20:2)
 
Last edited:

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
15,643
6,999
113
www.FinishingTheMystery.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ohhhh, but I have... "and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls." I think that's the 'and' you're referring to, but it seems you're not... accounting for... "among the survivors," from which we can easily discern that not all the "survivors" are called, but only some/many. So again, a limited number, according to a specific criteria, and that criteria is explicitly the Lord's calling. The 'and' there is not to be understood as "in addition to," but a further clarifying regarding "those who escape," which is also a limited number.
No...you tied "all flesh" to "those whom the Lord calls", as if "all flesh" was only among "those called." Which is not what the "and" does. The "and" speaks of "all" "and" "those called" as being separate but dealt with the same--not "all" as being limited to "those called."
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
15,643
6,999
113
www.FinishingTheMystery.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Perhaps I have not been explicit about it, but those evil (both natural and supernatural) spirits certainly are... very real. But to understand God "creating darkness and evil" is very much not in the sense that He is the author or the originator of darkness or evil or sin. Surely you are not suggesting that... But no, as John says, "God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all" (1 John 1:5). Wow, yes, read what the Psalms have to say about the light...
  • "For it is You who light my lamp; the Lord my God lightens my darkness" (18)...
  • "For with You is the fountain of life; in Your light do we see light" (36)...
  • "The Lord is God, and He has made His light to shine upon us" (118)...
  • "Your Word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path" (119)...
So no, the origin of evil we cannot know. But ~ somehow ~ God is at work even in the midst of it, and in control of all things, and working all things together for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose (Romans 8:28), and even bringing glory to Himself despite it. And making all things new (Revelation 21:5), and... again... reconciling to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross (Colossians 1:20).

So... <smile> I say to you, Scott, with all sincerity (as Aaron did the Israelites of old), "the Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace." (Numbers 6:24-26)
What does God say? "I create darkness...and evil."

This is not the topic of discussion however. In speaking God pouring out his spirit upon all flesh--which he spoke of separate of those he called, saying the one "and" the other--"all" means "all." "And" then, is simply an indication that there are specifics regarding "those called."

As for "we cannot know"--sure we can--we have the promise of "all truth" from Christ.

As for "reconciling to Himself all things"--that is not actually a comparable. The original meaning of "reconcile" would be "separate and change", not making everything evil good, but taking it all back upon Himself. Such is gospel of Jesus Christ.

Even so--blessings to you as well!
 

PinSeeker

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2021
4,287
1,033
113
Nashville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
No...you tied "all flesh" to "those whom the Lord calls"...
No, I think you did that... or at least seemed to. If you agree with me that those who are called by God, by His Spirit, is not all flesh in the sense of everyone, then great.

I will say this, that there is a general call of Scripture goes out to all people, bar none, to repent and believe on Christ; this is the general call of the Gospel. But there is also the particular calling of God, made inwardly by the Holy Spirit, that is only given to His elect according to His purpose, which, cannot and will not be thwarted; again, God's Word does not return to Him empty, but it but it shall accomplishes that which He purposes and (always) succeeds in the thing for which He sends it. As Paul says in Romans 11:29, "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

The "and" speaks of "all" "and" "those called" as being separate but dealt with the same--not "all" as being limited to "those called."
You seem to be... not recognizing, for whatever reason... who, exactly, God, through Joel, is speaking to. It's very clear in verse 27 that He is speaking only to those of whom He is the Lord their God. And that is a limited number. He is a covenantal God, and His covenant is not with everyone. Only those who are born again of the Spirit walk in the Spirit and indeed have the Spirit. We can easily see this all through Scripture, Old and New Testaments alike. God has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills.

What does God say? "I create darkness...and evil."
Yes, He does. Isaiah 45:7 is to be understood in the sense that He is in control of all things, so He is in the midst of these things, and even uses them to accomplish His purposes... so He makes the rain to fall on the righteous and unrighteous alike, and that He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills, and that He endures with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory⁠ ~ even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles. He is God, and we are not. Surely you will agree that God is not Himself sinful. So He cannot be the author or originator of sin, or evil, or darkness of any kind; He Himself, perfectly holy God that He is, is incapable of sin.

This is not the topic of discussion however. In speaking God pouring out his spirit upon all flesh--which he spoke of separate of those he called, saying the one "and" the other--"all" means "all." "And" then, is simply an indication that there are specifics regarding "those called."
See above.

As for "we cannot know"--sure we can--we have the promise of "all truth" from Christ.
We cannot know the origin of evil. We are not told anywhere in God's Word.

As for "reconciling to Himself all things"--that is not actually a comparable.
Who said anything of the sort? Certainly not I.

The original meaning of "reconcile" would be "separate and change", not making everything evil good, but taking it all back upon Himself. Such is gospel of Jesus Christ.
Hmmmm... I would pretty much agree, except for two things:
  • the reconciliation God is accomplishing is in the sense of justification, and crediting His own righteousness ~ Christ's ~ to us in the same sense as He did Abraham long ago (Genesis 15:6).
  • and maybe your use of the word 'upon'... I would rather that be 'to,' and so then, again, as in Colossians 1:19, "reconciling to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross."
If we disagree we disagree, and in that case, as you and I both have said, so be it.

Even so--blessings to you as well!
Dear God, let that be the last word... <chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
16,966
6,871
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
From my perspective, as one caught up to the third heaven and hearing words not then lawful to utter, then tasked by God to speak through the bottle neck things that are not always welcome in this model-building world--most of what I hear is model-based theories born out of model-based dialog. In other words, instead of getting a response like "Oh, great, I have read of God doing things like that--please tell us more", what typically happens instead is something like:

"Sooo...you think yer somekinda prophet or something? Well let me tell you what I read about and what it means here in the bottle!"​
"But, "a thousand years with the Lord is as a day..."​
"No, that's not how I read it, and how I read it is all I want to hear."​
"Okay...so be it. So shall it be written. By the [bottle] measure you use, so shall it be measured back to you."​

And that's the current state of things.
im-in-heaven-larry-david.gif
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
15,643
6,999
113
www.FinishingTheMystery.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, I think you did that... or at least seemed to. If you agree with me that those who are called by God, by His Spirit, is not all flesh in the sense of everyone, then great.

I will say this, that there is a general call of Scripture goes out to all people, bar none, to repent and believe on Christ; this is the general call of the Gospel. But there is also the particular calling of God, made inwardly by the Holy Spirit, that is only given to His elect according to His purpose, which, cannot and will not be thwarted; again, God's Word does not return to Him empty, but it but it shall accomplishes that which He purposes and (always) succeeds in the thing for which He sends it. As Paul says in Romans 11:29, "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

You seem to be... not recognizing, for whatever reason... who, exactly, God, through Joel, is speaking to. It's very clear in verse 27 that He is speaking only to those of whom He is the Lord their God. And that is a limited number. He is a covenantal God, and His covenant is not with everyone. Only those who are born again of the Spirit walk in the Spirit and indeed have the Spirit. We can easily see this all through Scripture, Old and New Testaments alike. God has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills.
No...I pointed out the difference, that all refers to all, "and" specifically it includes all who are called. And I clarified referring to the original language and the fact that "all" means "separate" in addition to "change."

You are just stubbornly wanting it to fit your own understanding.
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
15,643
6,999
113
www.FinishingTheMystery.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, He does. Isaiah 45:7 is to be understood in the sense that He is in control of all things, so He is in the midst of these things, and even uses them to accomplish His purposes... so He makes the rain to fall on the righteous and unrighteous alike, and that He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills, and that He endures with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory⁠ ~ even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles. He is God, and we are not. Surely you will agree that God is not Himself sinful. So He cannot be the author or originator of sin, or evil, or darkness of any kind; He Himself, perfectly holy God that He is, is incapable of sin.
Stop interpreting, you're doing a lousy job of it, a disservice. Isaiah 45:7 (God speaking) says "create" and you say "control" as if he didn't "create" everything and he is just or only in control. It's like you took it upon yourself to demote him from Creator to driver. That is a terrible way to speak of God!
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
15,643
6,999
113
www.FinishingTheMystery.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
the reconciliation God is accomplishing is in the sense of justification, and crediting His own righteousness ~ Christ's ~ to us in the same sense as He did Abraham long ago (Genesis 15:6).
Going to other verses is a fine practice...that is, unless it contradicts or changes the original passage--which in this case it does, as I have pointed out the original meaning and those verses do not support it, but speak only to righteous justification rather than to both good and evil.

and maybe your use of the word 'upon'... I would rather that be 'to,' and so then, again, as in Colossians 1:19, "reconciling to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross."
"To Himself" came "upon" Christ...which was also "to" Christ. But I was not addressing the semantics, but rather explaining how it came "to" be.
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
15,643
6,999
113
www.FinishingTheMystery.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Dear God, let that be the last word... <chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.
Sorry, but all correction and clarification regarding "all truth" is not just for you. You spoke of God working all things together for good for those who love him according to his purpose. All this is a part of that.

So, yes, be blessed!
 

PinSeeker

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2021
4,287
1,033
113
Nashville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
You are just stubbornly wanting it to fit your own understanding.
Right back atcha, Scott.

Stop interpreting, you're doing a lousy job of it, a disservice.
Again, right back atcha.

It's like you took it upon yourself to demote him from Creator…
Yet again, right back atcha, Scott.

God's written word in scripture--is not "all truth" as promised.
Oh, so God lies, at least sometimes? I mean, you know, get behind me, Satan…

"all" means "all."
It does. But sometimes… depending on the context… it’s clearly referring to all of a lesser potion than the whole. And so it is, regarding Joel 2:32, John 3:16 (hadn’t mentioned that one before, but so it is), and Romans 10:13.

No need.

, but all correction and clarification regarding "all truth" is not just for you.
Right, agreed, it’s for yourself, for your puffing yourself up. As well as being largely false and incorrect.

I will say, though, that I was wrong about something… your spirit. I thought for a while, reading a few of your posts, that you had a different spirit than many of the folks on here, and I was wrong about that…

You spoke of God working all things together for good for those who love him according to his purpose. All this is a part of that.
Agreed. But opposite your context.

So, yes, be blessed!
Same to you, man; grace and peace to you.
 
Last edited:

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
15,643
6,999
113
www.FinishingTheMystery.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Right back atcha, Scott.

Again, right back atcha.

Yet again, right back atcha, Scott.
Yeah, this is probably seventy times already. It's enough.

Oh, so God lies, at least sometimes? I mean, you know, get behind me, Satan…
That is not at all what I said--you are twisting it. Which, yes, is what Satan does. Good final reveal on your part!

It does. But sometimes… depending on the context… it’s clearly referring to all of a lesser potion than the whole. And so it is, regarding Joel 2:32, John 3:16 (hadn’t mentioned that one before, but so it is), and Romans 10:13.
You have listed none that actually support your rebuttal, but just the opposite.

Right, agreed, it’s for yourself, for your puffing yourself up. As well as being largely false and incorrect.
I have engaged you these many times--for your sake, not mine, and all you did was further reveal your error, your heart. It's all written here. And how strange it is that you would think that one sent by God, only speaking what has been given to me--that your response would be accusation and name calling. It's as if you never believed that God ever worked this way, and as if anyone sent by him would have nothing to say but what you want to hear, like that has been the way his servants have always come across. Just amazing. Oh, the irony!

Which makes your signing off with words of peace and grace why God spoke words like Isaiah 29:13.

In truth, I am on assignment, one foretold and written of, sent by God my witness.
 
Last edited:

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
15,921
5,978
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, the "New Covenant" is a construct of man because Jesus spoke of the "Kanios"/Refreshed Covenant where the original Salvation Covenant was refreshed while the process of gaining that Salvation was modified on the Cross. Christ told of this truth in Mat 13:52 if you care to unpack it carefully.
Luke 22:20
20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

Hebrews 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
9,376
3,494
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Luke 22:20
20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

Hebrews 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

Jack, it is pointless to point out to you that in both your referenced verses, it is talking about the freshness of the covenant in both cases with respect to the people whereas "neos" G:3501" is newness with respect to age.

There is a really big difference between these two Greek words which is often just translated as new.

Shalom
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
15,921
5,978
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jack, it is pointless to point out to you that in both your referenced verses, it is talking about the freshness of the covenant in both cases with respect to the people whereas "neos" G:3501" is newness with respect to age.

There is a really big difference between these two Greek words which is often just translated as new.

Shalom
I don't know of any English Bible that supports you on that! So you're denying that Jesus' Blood gave us the New Covenant? That's pretty SERIOUS!
 

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
5,497
441
83
77
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Jesus presented the Lord's prayer in Matthew 6:9-13.

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding Israel, when Jesus returns, He will deliver Israel from evil that will abound in the world at that time. And Jesus will bring the kingdom of God to this earth to rule over the nations.

We don't know the date of His return. But we do know the times and seasons.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
9,376
3,494
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
I don't know of any English Bible that supports you on that! So you're denying that Jesus' Blood gave us the New Covenant? That's pretty SERIOUS!

Sadly Jack, you have not been able to comprehend my post and that there is a difference between G:3501 and G:2537 where 3501 is a time reference and 2537 is looking at the condition of an object.

Shalom
 

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
5,497
441
83
77
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
2045 ADThe judgement of the Heavenly Hosts and the Kings of the earth and the start of their imprisonment in the Bottomless pit
God begins His gathering of Israel to Himself, and the planting them in His fertile Field and teaching them on the Mountain of Israel that came down out of heaven as the foundation stone of Israel's religious basis.
The Start of the 1,000 years of Satan, the beasts, the Little Horn and the Kings of the earth being imprisoned in the Bottomless pit
The first resurrection of the saints who will have lost their head for God's everlasting Kingdom and who will be priests for 1,000 years with Christ.
Jay, are you predicting the return of Jesus to happen in 2045 ?