Dumbing it down!

[Jack]

Yes, God’s love is real. Scripture says, “God is love” ~1 John 4:8. But Scripture never teaches that God’s love cancels His wrath, justice, holiness, or judgment.

God does show love and mercy toward sinners. “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” ~Romans 5:8.

But those who reject Christ remain under condemnation. Jesus said, “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already” ~John 3:18.

So the issue is not whether God is loving. The issue is that God’s love is holy love. He does not overlook sin forever. He does not grade on emotion. He judges righteously.

“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire” ~Revelation 20:15.

So I would answer it this way: God is loving, but He is not only loving. He is also holy and just. His love does not save those who refuse the only Savior. That is why the gospel is not optional. Jesus is the only way.

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” ~John 14:6.

Well, if God loves those He burns in Hell what does He do to those He hates?

 

[Jack]

Yes, God’s love is real. Scripture says, “God is love” ~1 John 4:8. But Scripture never teaches that God’s love cancels His wrath, justice, holiness, or judgment.

God does show love and mercy toward sinners. “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” ~Romans 5:8.

But those who reject Christ remain under condemnation. Jesus said, “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already” ~John 3:18.

So the issue is not whether God is loving. The issue is that God’s love is holy love. He does not overlook sin forever. He does not grade on emotion. He judges righteously.

“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire” ~Revelation 20:15.

So I would answer it this way: God is loving, but He is not only loving. He is also holy and just. His love does not save those who refuse the only Savior. That is why the gospel is not optional. Jesus is the only way.

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” ~John 14:6.

Are you aware that the main doctrine in the Bible is the WRATH / FEAR of God?

 

[bdavidc]

Are you aware that the main doctrine in the Bible is the WRATH / FEAR of God?

I would not state it that way. The Bible certainly teaches the wrath of God and the fear of God, and no faithful Christian should soften either one. “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” ~Hebrews 10:31. Jesus also said, “Fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” ~Matthew 10:28.

So yes, the fear of God is not optional. The wrath of God is not a side note. “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men” ~Romans 1:18.

But to say the main doctrine of the Bible is wrath or fear is too narrow. The Bible’s central message is God revealing Himself in holiness, judging sin righteously, and saving sinners through Jesus Christ for His own glory.

Wrath is real because God is holy. Fear is right because God is righteous. But the gospel is not merely “God is wrathful.” The gospel is that guilty sinners can be saved because Christ bore wrath in the place of His people.

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God” ~1 Peter 3:18.

That is why we must not pit God’s attributes against each other. God is love ~1 John 4:8. God is holy ~1 Peter 1:16. God is just ~Romans 3:26. God is wrathful against sin ~Romans 1:18. All of that is true at the same time.

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom ~Proverbs 9:10, but Christ is still the center of redemption. Jesus said the Scriptures testify of Him ~John 5:39. So we should preach wrath, judgment, and hell plainly, but not as the whole message. We preach them because they show why sinners must flee to Christ.

Wrath tells us what we deserve.

The cross tells us what Christ endured.

The resurrection tells us salvation is real.

And the gospel tells sinners where mercy is found.

So yes, fear God. Absolutely. But do not reduce the whole Bible to wrath and fear. The Bible reveals the holy God who judges sin and saves sinners through Jesus Christ alone.

 

[Jack]

I would not state it that way. The Bible certainly teaches the wrath of God and the fear of God, and no faithful Christian should soften either one. “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” ~Hebrews 10:31. Jesus also said, “Fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” ~Matthew 10:28.

So yes, the fear of God is not optional. The wrath of God is not a side note. “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men” ~Romans 1:18.

But to say the main doctrine of the Bible is wrath or fear is too narrow. The Bible’s central message is God revealing Himself in holiness, judging sin righteously, and saving sinners through Jesus Christ for His own glory.

Wrath is real because God is holy. Fear is right because God is righteous. But the gospel is not merely “God is wrathful.” The gospel is that guilty sinners can be saved because Christ bore wrath in the place of His people.

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God” ~1 Peter 3:18.

That is why we must not pit God’s attributes against each other. God is love ~1 John 4:8. God is holy ~1 Peter 1:16. God is just ~Romans 3:26. God is wrathful against sin ~Romans 1:18. All of that is true at the same time.

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom ~Proverbs 9:10, but Christ is still the center of redemption. Jesus said the Scriptures testify of Him ~John 5:39. So we should preach wrath, judgment, and hell plainly, but not as the whole message. We preach them because they show why sinners must flee to Christ.

Wrath tells us what we deserve.

The cross tells us what Christ endured.

The resurrection tells us salvation is real.

And the gospel tells sinners where mercy is found.

So yes, fear God. Absolutely. But do not reduce the whole Bible to wrath and fear. The Bible reveals the holy God who judges sin and saves sinners through Jesus Christ alone.

The love of God VS the wrath / fear of God. Guess which is the main doctrine in the Bible.

Psalm 111:10
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;

The most important doctrine in the NT: Hell Fire!

 

[Wrangler]

I must have missed your yes or no answer to my question.

Another question: Did God love those He drowned in Genesis, "making them an example"?

The IDOL and circular reasoning is God NOT limited even though it’s axiomatic that everything that exists has limited. God’s love is limited by his justice. Denying this they make God’s love meaningless. As you pointed out, nothing says I love you like killing you, sacrificing you to the cause of justice.

 

[Jack]

The IDOL and circular reasoning is God NOT limited even though it’s axiomatic that everything that exists has limited. God’s love is limited by his justice. Denying this they make God’s love meaningless. As you pointed out, nothing says I love you like killing you, sacrificing you to the cause of justice.

Exactly! And He cannot change. On Judgment Day He will be PERFECTLY fair.

 

[TLHKAJ]

The Lake of Fire does not prove God lacks love.

Amen.

Ezek 18:32For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Ezek 33:11Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

 

[bdavidc]

The love of God VS the wrath / fear of God. Guess which is the main doctrine in the Bible.

Psalm 111:10
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;

The most important doctrine in the NT: Hell Fire!

Your argument puts God’s love on one side and His wrath and fear on the other, as though the Bible makes us choose which truth gets to live and which one has to be buried. Scripture does no such thing.

God is love. “He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love” ~1 John 4:8. But that same God is holy, righteous, and just. “God is angry with the wicked every day” ~Psalm 7:11. The Bible does not blush at either truth, and neither should we.

The cross is where this false division dies.

At Calvary, God did not set aside His wrath to show love. He satisfied His justice through the death of His Son. “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness” ~Romans 3:25. That word “propitiation” means wrath was dealt with. Not ignored. Not softened. Not explained away. Dealt with by blood.

That is why Romans says God is “just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus” ~Romans 3:26. Love did not cancel justice. Justice did not cancel love. Both met in Christ.

And the fear of the Lord is not some ugly Old Testament leftover that love came to erase. Scripture says, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom” ~Proverbs 9:10. If a man has no fear of God, he has not become spiritually mature. He has not even started where wisdom starts.

Jesus Himself said, “Fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” ~Matthew 10:28. That was not Moses. That was not a prophet under the law. That was the Lord Jesus Christ.

So we had better be careful about preaching a love that Jesus never preached. The love of God is not sentimental permission to make peace with sin. The love of God sent the Son to save sinners from the wrath they deserve. “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” ~Romans 5:9.

That is the question Scripture presses on the conscience: saved from what?

If there is no wrath, the cross becomes theater. If there is no judgment, mercy becomes decoration. If there is no fear of the Lord, sinners will never tremble at His Word, never flee to Christ, and never understand why grace is amazing.

God’s love is real. God’s wrath is real. The fear of the Lord is right. And the gospel is the only place where guilty sinners can find mercy without God ceasing to be just.

So the issue is not whether love is important. The issue is whether we will let Scripture define God, or whether we will carve away the parts of God that make modern ears uncomfortable.

 

[Wrangler]

Your argument puts God’s love on one side and His wrath and fear on the other

That’s your categorization. Others suppose they work in ”harmony,” which is just another way of saying in practice God’s love is on one side and His wrath and fear on the other.