Should I buy a sword?

[MatthewG]

Jesus told the disciples to buy a sword not so they could fight, but to fulfill prophecy and to show that a new season of danger and persecution was beginning. When a disciple actually used a sword, Jesus immediately stopped him and said those who take the sword will perish by it. The instruction was symbolic of preparedness, not a command for violence. Today we apply it spiritually—by being ready, watchful, and grounded in the Word, not by taking up literal weapons.

 

[Lambano]

Are you really suggesting that Christians should use firearms to help stop the spread of Islam?

Well? Once "good Christian peoples Should BECOME convinced that the "WAR of WORDS" has gained ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?
And, in fact, LOSING "ground?"

THEN?..............................

@NayborBear, if you're planning on shooting up a mosque or otherwise committing homicide against your Muslim neighbors, I recommend in the strongest possible terms that you repent, turn yourself into the authorities, and getting some psychological help.

 

[Anchorite]

Well? Once "good Christian peoples Should BECOME convinced that the "WAR of WORDS" has gained ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?
And, in fact, LOSING "ground?"

THEN?..............................

I hope you do not mean Christians should abandon evangelism and missionary work, and become carnal to wage physical war and murder Muslims, like the vile, barbaric pseudo-Christian Crusaders did.

Our evangelistic war of words has gained absolutely nothing?

Where do you get your statistics?

Recent estimates suggest significant, though often debated, numbers of Muslims are converting to Christianity, with figures ranging from thousands to millions annually in specific regions. A 2014 study by David Garrison estimated 2–7 million Muslim-background believers globally, while other reports suggest as many as 6 million annually in Africa alone.

A 2015 study, "Believers in Christ from a Muslim Background: A Global Census," published by Baylor University, estimated 10.2 million Muslims had converted to Christianity. Reports indicate over 1 million conversions in Iran alone.

One of the most widely cited claims comes from Sheikh Ahmad Al Qataani, a prominent Muslim leader. In a televised interview on Al-Jazeera in 2001, he stated that every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. That adds up to 16,000 per day, or approximately 6 million per year—in Africa alone.

• Sudan: Over 5 million conversions from Islam to Christianity have occurred since the early 1990s.
• Afghanistan: There were just 17 known Christians in 2001; now, there are over 10,000.
• Iran: In 1979, there were only 500 known Christian converts. Today, there are estimated to be over 1 million.
• Iraq: Since the early 2000s, over 5,000 Muslims have converted to Christianity, with many churches opening in Baghdad and Kurdistan.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Then you need to more deeply study Matthew 7:1-3 and 1 Cor 6:3.

No. They didn't go out and buy swords after dinner. (Would the sword shops have even been open at night?)

If you read my post again, you'll see that I never said they did that.

The text said they already HAD swords.

Agreed.

Josephus and other historical sources say it was normal in that time to carry weapons for protection from wild animals and lestes (armed bandits like Barabbas that preyed on unwary travelers). What was not normal was when Jesus sent the disciples out without money, suitcase or weapons. (Note: Mark says Jesus permitted them to have walking sticks, which can double as a weapon if necessary; Matthew says they were not even allowed that.)

I think understanding of the message of Jesus must first arrive by looking at contextual consistency in hi
Jesus commanded buying swords in Luke 22. Even if a Disciple needed to sell their cloak to do so.

Jesus did not command going forth unarmed with the great commission in Matthew 26.

Peter wielded the sword in Gethsemane in defense of his master being arrested. When Jesus told him to put up his sword,he was not,nor ever did Jesus,explicitly command getting rid of the sword.

He told Peter to put away his sword after Peter cleaved the ear off the temple guard.

Jesus said,those who live by the sword shall perish by the sword.

Those who lived by the sword in that time were the Romans.

Jesus did not explicitly tell his Disciples,later called Apostles when anointed to deliver the Gospel, to go forth unarmed.

 

[NayborBear]

Christians are indeed in a war, but not one that is to be fought with guns:

Perhaps? Which surely seems to be the case in more than just your (how can I say) and others "particular interpretation!"
Which seems pretty "contented" with "sitting with Jesus on the right hand of the Father!
But? I can ASSURE you? That on Second Half of "this verse!?" (the side I have capitalized in bold?)
Psalms 110:1
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, UNTIL I MAKE THINE ENEMIES THY FOOTSTOOL.
This is NOT the case!

Which? Un-Dignifies the Father into this "same pacifistic ROLE" (GOD in a box), as well as y'alls refusal in doing "this?:

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME.
It is in this/these places WHERE "Sons of Light Wars AGAINST sons of darkness!"
Where not only is the "Gospel Armour" NEEDED? It's REQUIRED Prior to even "coming UNTO the Father!"
And? Definitely YES! When it comes to "Warring AGAINST these IN FLESH?"
YES!!!
Which is why this question was asked me so many times IN REFERENCE to y'alls "take" or misinterpretation of "Spiritual Perfection" or "Completeness!"
"What AM I?" "Chopped Liver?"
So? This 'ol "slice of ETERNITY" aka "This PRESENT Earth and Heaven age?"
Is going to CONTINUE in BECOMING darker and more darker than it already HAS BECOME!
Because of all the good intentions and professions of faith that are "proclaimed?"
Y'all STILL ain't got the "situational awareness" aka "PRESCIENCE OF MIND" in the knowing "WHEN there is a TIME FOR WAR!"

Ezekiel 13:
8 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord God.
(THIS, Is what HE thinks about being called "Chopped Liver!)
10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

 

[Heart2Soul]

Then you need to more deeply study Matthew 7:1-3 and 1 Cor 6:3.

I revisit scriptures all the time and I just do not agree with the OP about picking up a real sword with the intent of using it. I carry the Sword of Truth and the Shield of Faith. Those defense weapons have served

I have car insurance AND health insurance. My agent says I don’t have to choose one over the other.

Oooookay. But are you fighting a worldly battle or a spiritual one?

 

[NayborBear]

@NayborBear, if you're planning on shooting up a mosque or otherwise committing homicide against your Muslim neighbors, I recommend in the strongest possible terms that you repent, turn yourself into the authorities, and getting some psychological help.

You have NO idea what you're talking about!

 

[Wrangler]

Christians are indeed in a war, but not one that is to be fought with guns

No, we are in a war that is fought with guns AND one that isn’t.

 

[Anchorite]

I think understanding of the message of Jesus must first arrive by looking at contextual consistency in hi
Jesus commanded buying swords in Luke 22. Even if a Disciple needed to sell their cloak to do so.

Jesus did not command going forth unarmed with the great commission in Matthew 26.

Peter wielded the sword in Gethsemane in defense of his master being arrested. When Jesus told him to put up his sword,he was not,nor ever did Jesus,explicitly command getting rid of the sword.

He told Peter to put away his sword after Peter cleaved the ear off the temple guard.

Jesus said,those who live by the sword shall perish by the sword.

Those who lived by the sword in that time were the Romans.

Jesus did not explicitly tell his Disciples,later called Apostles when anointed to deliver the Gospel, to go forth unarmed.

Then point to an instance in NT scripture when believers defended themselves with weapons.

Believers died defenselessly as martyrs, they did not kill anyone.

If disciples were arming themselves, surely there would be instructions on when and how to use weapons, since that is a major issue.

But the sword of the spirit which is the Word of God is the believer’s weapon against dark forces.

Peter’s “sword” was likely a tool, a knife used by fishermen.

Matthew 26:52 is not necessarily talking about military living by the sword.

Many translations provide “take up the sword”, “draw the sword”, or “use the sword”.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Then point to an instance in NT scripture when believers defended themselves with weapons.

Believers died defenselessly as martyrs, they did not kill anyone.

If disciples were arming themselves, surely there would be instructions on when and how to use weapons, since that is a major issue.

But the sword of the spirit which is the Word of God is the believer’s weapon against dark forces.

Peter’s “sword” was likely a tool, a knife used by fishermen.

Matthew 26:52 is not necessarily talking about military living by the sword.

Many translations provide “take up the sword”, “draw the sword”, or “use the sword”.

I won't engage in your effort to presume against God's meaning and teachings in his own words.

The swords in scripture could have been? Harsh words that led to the ear of a temple guard falling to the ground?
So that Jesus then came to the guard and spoke kinder words so that the ear felt better after what it had previously heard?

No.
You will live what you think is true. It isn't my duty to correct the narrative you prefer overlaps the scriptures.

 

[Gray_Joy]

I won't engage in your effort to presume against God's meaning and teachings in his own words.

The swords in scripture could have been? Harsh words that led to the ear of a temple guard falling to the ground?
So that Jesus then came to the guard and spoke kinder words so that the ear felt better after what it had previously heard?

No.
You will live what you think is true. It isn't my duty to correct the narrative you prefer overlaps the scriptures.

Christians are indeed in a war, but not one that is to be fought with guns:

(2Co 10:4) For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,

The Christians "armour" is likewise of a spiritual nature, as described in Ephesians 6:

(Eph 6:10) Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
(Eph 6:11) Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
(Eph 6:12) For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
(Eph 6:13) Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
(Eph 6:14) Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
(Eph 6:15) and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
(Eph 6:16) above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
(Eph 6:17) And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
(Eph 6:18) praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—
(Eph 6:19) and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel,
(Eph 6:20) for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

Are you aware God's people throughout the Bible were armed with weapons?

That Jesus,being God on Earth as a man,was,in the Bible,and is the most powerful warrior in existence.

 

[Anchorite]

I won't engage in your effort to presume against God's meaning and teachings in his own words.

The swords in scripture could have been? Harsh words that led to the ear of a temple guard falling to the ground?
So that Jesus then came to the guard and spoke kinder words so that the ear felt better after what it had previously heard?

No.
You will live what you think is true. It isn't my duty to correct the narrative you prefer overlaps the scriptures.

Your wild imagination produced a scene that has nothing to do with what I posted.

Go ahead and quote verses where believers used weapons to defend themselves in the book of Acts.

Martyrs refused to fight back, they were stoned to death or killed in other ways, because Christianity is pacifist, non-violent, and anti-war.

Do you understand what a martyr is? Someone who wants to live, but will not kill his enemies to avoid being killed by them.


Jesus told us what to do:


Turn the other cheek.

Love your enemies.

Do good unto those who abuse you.

Pray for those who persecute you.

Resist not an evil man.

Blessed be the peacemakers.

Put away thy sword.

Draw the sword, die by the sword.

We fight not against flesh and blood.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

My kingdom is not of this world, thus my servants do not fight.

 

[Anchorite]

Are you aware God's people throughout the Bible were armed with weapons?

So do tell us which New Testament believers were armed and used weapons to defend themselves.

Peter tried it and was rebuked by Jesus, who healed the ear of the guy that Peter attacked.

 

[Gray_Joy]

So do tell us which New Testament believers were armed and used weapons to defend themselves.

Peter tried it and was rebuked by Jesus, who healed the ear of the guy that Peter attacked.

That post avoids my question.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Your wild imagination produced a scene that has nothing to do with what I posted.

Go ahead and quote verses where believers used weapons to defend themselves in the book of Acts.

Martyrs refused to fight back, they were stoned to death or killed in other ways, because Christianity is pacifist, non-violent, and anti-war.

Do you understand what a martyr is? Someone who wants to live, but will not kill his enemies to avoid being killed by them.


Jesus told us what to do:


Turn the other cheek.

Love your enemies.

Do good unto those who abuse you.

Pray for those who persecute you.

Resist not an evil man.

Blessed be the peacemakers.

Put away thy sword.

Draw the sword, die by the sword.

We fight not against flesh and blood.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

My kingdom is not of this world, thus my servants do not fight.

God is a pacifist?

 

[Anchorite]

God is a pacifist?

Jesus taught non-violence.

Turn the other cheek.

Love your enemies.

Do good unto those who abuse you.

Pray for those who persecute you.

Resist not an evil man.

Blessed be the peacemakers.

Put away thy sword.

Draw the sword, die by the sword.

We fight not against flesh and blood.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

My kingdom is not of this world, thus my servants do not fight.

First century believers refused to serve in the military or police. They did not believe in using weapons.

 

[Wrangler]

So do tell us which New Testament believers were armed and used weapons to defend themselves.

On a Tuesday … what a Strawman attempt to deny the violent history of the Bible.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Jesus taught non-violence.

Turn the other cheek.

Love your enemies.

Do good unto those who abuse you.

Pray for those who persecute you.

Resist not an evil man.

Blessed be the peacemakers.

Put away thy sword.

Draw the sword, die by the sword.

We fight not against flesh and blood.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

My kingdom is not of this world, thus my servants do not fight.

This is why I have said we need read and comprehend the words of God with regard to consistent context in the message.

A reading of the first people faithful to God,the texts in the Old Testament,tells us God's people were armed. And,went to war in the name of God. At his behest. And with his assistance in battle.

It is therefore inconsistent to think that later on God opposed his faithful in owning weapons or doing battle.

First century believers refused to serve in the military or police. They did not believe in using weapons.

Yes. Because the military at that time were idolatrous.

After Constantine REM ved that factor from the military , there were believers who did join the military.

I feel the need to ask for clarification here as regards the platform from which you present.

Are you affiliated with a pacifist demon national church? Groups such as, Mennonites ,Religious Society of Friends, Church of the Brethren?

 

[Anchorite]

Are you affiliated with a pacifist demon national church? Groups such as, Mennonites ,Religious Society of Friends, Church of the Brethren?

Still waiting for you to tell us when believers defended themselves with weapons in the book of Acts.

You evade this challenge for obvious reasons.

I am affiliated with those who take the words of Jesus seriously when He said:

Turn the other cheek.

Love your enemies.

Do good unto those who abuse you.

Pray for those who persecute you.

Resist not an evil man.

Blessed be the peacemakers.

Put away thy sword.

Draw the sword, die by the sword.

We fight not against flesh and blood.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

My kingdom is not of this world, thus my servants do not fight.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Psalm 144
Blessed be the Lord, my rock,
who trains my hands for war,
and my fingers for battle;


Luke 11:21
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe;



I wanted to add this for consideration as a resource for information purposes only. Not as a direct response to any one post here.

This is a link to an excerpt from the book, When is it Right To Fight? Authored by the Evangelical scholar, Dr. Robert Morey,RIP.

It is a very short article excerpt if his book.

The Early Church, War and Pacifism By Dr. Robert Morey (Evangelical scholar)

If someone does not have the time,this is its conclusion.

Conclusion​

We have surveyed the archeological and literary evidence concerning whether Christians participated in the military before Constantine, whether or not they condemned war in principle and the state’s use of force in particular. The evidence demonstrates that Christians entered all areas of life from the beginning of the New Testament period. They did this because they viewed all areas of life as under the lordship of Christ. Christians could be found in every honorable profession from the military to that of sailors or farmers.

Only after the pagan philosophic idea of dividing life into a secular and sacred dichotomy invaded the Christian Church did we find a few writers who exhorted Christians to abandon all “secular” occupations. They felt Christians should avoid political and military life because of possible association with idolatrous practices.

Did any early Church Fathers set forth that it is intrinsically wrong for nations to use force to protect its citizens? When we turn to the evidence to see if any took this position, we find nothing. Not once is Rome called upon to disarm. Not once did Church Fathers urge nonresistance as a national policy.

Because of the idolatrous elements in the Roman army, some early Christians had a great struggle serving in the military. But once Constantine removed those idolatrous elements from military life, we do not find any other problems for Christians who desired to enter political or military professions.