The Date of the Lord delivering Israel.

[Marilyn C]

Yes. Jesus had to come as a Jew because the Messiah was promised through Abraham, Judah, and David (Romans 9:4–5; Hebrews 7:14). He came to fulfill God's promises to Israel (Romans 15:8). Hint, Hint: Not nation Israel but Covenant Israel!

But after accomplishing redemption, He created "one new man" from both Jews and Gentiles (Ephesians 2:14–16). That's why in Christ "there is neither Jew nor Greek" (Galatians 3:28), and believers are one body under one Head, Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:22–23).

So Christ's Jewish lineage was essential to fulfill prophecy to begin with, but His kingdom is not limited to ethnic Jews or nation Israel. He is the Head of a redeemed people drawn from every nation, tribe, and tongue, including the Jews of the Old Testament!

Thanks for the detail there. So, if, as you say - `His kingdom is not limited to ethnic Jews or nation Israel.` then where do you see they fit in eternity? Scriptures please.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Thanks for the detail there. So, if, as you say - `His kingdom is not limited to ethnic Jews or nation Israel.` then where do you see they fit in eternity? Scriptures please.

I see ethnic Jews fitting into eternity the same way Gentiles do—through faith in Christ, not through ethnicity or national identity. Yes, the Old Testament Jews never saw or know Jesus Christ, but BY FAITH with temple, animal sacrifice, manna, etc. that points to Christ. That's it.

Paul explicitly says, "There is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him" (Romans 10:12). He also says, "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel" (Romans 9:6), clearly distinguishing physical Israel from the true people of God!

In eternity, I don't see two separate redeemed peoples—Israel and the Church. No, I see one redeemed people in Christ. Ephesians 2:14–16 says Christ made both Jews and Gentiles "one new man." Galatians 3:28–29 says there is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ, and if you belong to Christ, you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise, regardless of which side of the Cross you are in!

When we get to Revelation, the redeemed are from "every nation, kindred, people, and tongue" (Revelation 7:9), worshiping together as one body under one King. The distinction between Jew and Gentile remains a matter of earthly ancestry, but inheritance in the Kingdom is based on union and faith with Christ, not ethnic descent or physical nation.

 

[William Barton]

So, are you saying that Jesus had to be a Jew and then God made Him Head of the Body which has neither Jew nor Gentile?

The Christian faith is not restricted to Jew or Gentile (Ephesians 3:6). But there are advantages to being Jewish (Romans chapters 3,4).

The Messiah had to be a descendant of Abraham (2Samuel 7:12-13).

Unfortunately Abraham's wife Sarah was barren, so she asked him to have a child by her hand maiden. Those are the Arabs.

Then Abraham did have a child (Isaac) by Sarah. Isaac then had a child Jacob, progenitor of the Jews.

The enmity between the two lines, Arabs and Jews, continues to our present day.

There are other forces (angels, cherubim) also involved in the squabble.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So, God made Israel for no reason?

That's your takeaway from what I showed? That's not at all what I'm saying. Please address what I showed you, which is an undeniable similarity between Ezekiel 36:24-28 and Acts 2:1-5 and then we can discuss the reason that God made Israel. Sound good?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, those in the Body of Christ are one people. However, God made the earthly nation of Israel for a purpose.

God has only one people and the body of Christ are His people. That's what you continue to miss over and over and over again. Are you teachable, Marilyn? What does the following indicate...

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

There is no other way to be a child of God apart from faith and belonging to Jesus Christ. Do you agree with that or not? If not, why not? Paul made this very clear. Being one of God's people is not dependent on nationality or ethnicity, gender, social status or anything else except for having faith and belonging to Christ.

 

[PinSeeker]

But Jesus was pointing to JEWS.

Well, yes, actually, so who is really a Jew of God, Marilyn? Paul tells us:

“For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God” (Romans 2:28-29).

Grace and peace to you.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Thanks for the detail there. So, if, as you say - `His kingdom is not limited to ethnic Jews or nation Israel.` then where do you see they fit in eternity? Scriptures please.

Here is a diagram that may help illustrate what I am explaining. Please see the explanation under the picture below.





COVENANT ISRAEL – ONE PEOPLE OF GOD BY FAITH

This diagram illustrates the biblical concept that God's true covenant people have always been identified by faith rather than merely by physical descent or outward association.

On the left is Old Testament Israel, representing the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant. Within that larger circle is a smaller circle labeled "True Jewish Believers by Faith." This reflects the biblical truth that not all physical Israelites belonged to the true spiritual remnant of God.

"For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel." (Romans 9:6)

"Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved." (Romans 9:27)

On the right is the New Testament Church, representing the visible body of professing Christians. Within that larger circle is a smaller circle labeled "True Christian Believers by Faith." Scripture teaches that genuine membership in Christ's body is not merely external but consists of those who possess saving faith in Jesus Christ.

"The just shall live by faith." (Romans 1:17)

"For by grace are ye saved through faith." (Ephesians 2:8)

The arrows originate from the two smaller circles because God's true covenant people are found among the faithful remnant, not merely among those who belong outwardly to Israel or the visible church.

Both groups converge into the circle labeled "Covenant Israel" beneath the Cross, symbolizing that all who are saved—whether Old Testament saints looking forward to Christ or New Testament believers looking back to Christ—are united through the same Savior and the same covenant promises fulfilled in Him.

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:29)

"There is neither Jew nor Greek... for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)

"For he is our peace, who hath made both one." (Ephesians 2:14)

The Cross above Covenant Israel emphasizes that Jesus Christ is the foundation, head, and object of worship for all God's redeemed people throughout history. Salvation has always been by grace through faith in Christ, and all true believers are united in Him as one covenant people. This was why that was when Messiah the Prince has confirmed the covenant with His People at the Cross for BOTH the Old Testament Saints and the New Testament Saints, where His Holy Spirit came from from the Cross to the former sea (Old Testament) and hinder sea (New Testament).

"Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring... and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." (John 10:16)

"So we, being many, are one body in Christ." (Romans 12:5)

So the point is the smaller circles also illustrate the biblical principle that outward membership does not guarantee inclusion among God's elect people. Throughout both the Old Testament and New Testament eras, many have been called into the visible covenant community, yet only a faithful remnant are truly chosen by God through faith.

"For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14)

This truth is seen in national Israel, where only a remnant believed (Romans 9:6-8, 27), and it is also seen within the visible church, where not all who profess Christ truly belong to Him (2 Timothy 2:19). Therefore, the arrows originate from the smaller circles of genuine believers by faith, showing that God's true Covenant Israel consists of His chosen people from every age who trust in Christ.

Together they, people as "stones" are making up what God called the New Jerusalem!

@rwb

 

[Marilyn C]

I see ethnic Jews fitting into eternity the same way Gentiles do—through faith in Christ, not through ethnicity or national identity. Yes, the Old Testament Jews never saw or know Jesus Christ, but BY FAITH with temple, animal sacrifice, manna, etc. that points to Christ. That's it.

Paul explicitly says, "There is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him" (Romans 10:12). He also says, "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel" (Romans 9:6), clearly distinguishing physical Israel from the true people of God!

In eternity, I don't see two separate redeemed peoples—Israel and the Church. No, I see one redeemed people in Christ. Ephesians 2:14–16 says Christ made both Jews and Gentiles "one new man." Galatians 3:28–29 says there is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ, and if you belong to Christ, you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise, regardless of which side of the Cross you are in!

When we get to Revelation, the redeemed are from "every nation, kindred, people, and tongue" (Revelation 7:9), worshiping together as one body under one King. The distinction between Jew and Gentile remains a matter of earthly ancestry, but inheritance in the Kingdom is based on union and faith with Christ, not ethnic descent or physical nation.

I agree that in the Body of Christ there are no Jews or Gentiles etc. However, that does not account for God specifically intervening in mankind to make another nation - Israel. If all God desired was a people for one purpose, then God would have not made israel. There would be no need.

Rev. 7: 9 is referring to those of the nations in the great trib, who turned to God. We, the Body of Christ are `called out of the nations.`

I agree that inheritance in God`s great kingdom is based on faith in God and for those who were given more revelation - faith in Christ.

 

[Marilyn C]

The Christian faith is not restricted to Jew or Gentile (Ephesians 3:6). But there are advantages to being Jewish (Romans chapters 3,4).

The Messiah had to be a descendant of Abraham (2Samuel 7:12-13).

Unfortunately Abraham's wife Sarah was barren, so she asked him to have a child by her hand maiden. Those are the Arabs.

Then Abraham did have a child (Isaac) by Sarah. Isaac then had a child Jacob, progenitor of the Jews.

The enmity between the two lines, Arabs and Jews, continues to our present day.

There are other forces (angels, cherubim) also involved in the squabble.

I agree William. Now where do you believe is our inheritance in God`s great kingdom in eternity?

 

[Marilyn C]

That's your takeaway from what I showed? That's not at all what I'm saying. Please address what I showed you, which is an undeniable similarity between Ezekiel 36:24-28 and Acts 2:1-5 and then we can discuss the reason that God made Israel. Sound good?

`Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; your shall be my people, and I will be your God.` (Ex. 36: 28)

Are you saying we are going to live in Israel?

Acts 2: 1 - 5 the disciples receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. Not the same as Ez. 36: 34 - 28. Remember 70AD and Israel was overrun by the Romans. So they weren`t then able to `dwell in the land.`

 

[Marilyn C]

God has only one people and the body of Christ are His people. That's what you continue to miss over and over and over again. Are you teachable, Marilyn? What does the following indicate...

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

There is no other way to be a child of God apart from faith and belonging to Jesus Christ. Do you agree with that or not? If not, why not? Paul made this very clear. Being one of God's people is not dependent on nationality or ethnicity, gender, social status or anything else except for having faith and belonging to Christ.

Yes, all to do with the Body of Christ. it does not say that the Old Testament, just/righteous men (& women) came into the Body of Christ. Heb. 12: 22 & 23 show the two groups.

I agree that being in God`s family does NOT depend on ethnicity. However, there are those in every nation (including Israel) that turned to God and when they knew of Christ many received Him.

 

[Marilyn C]

Well, yes, actually, so who is really a Jew of God, Marilyn? Paul tells us:

“For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God” (Romans 2:28-29).

Grace and peace to you.

`who is merely`....so a Jew is from God`s nation who has turned to God and to Jesus when they received that revelation and believed.

 

[Marilyn C]

Here is a diagram that may help illustrate what I am explaining. Please see the explanation under the picture below.


View attachment 85368


COVENANT ISRAEL – ONE PEOPLE OF GOD BY FAITH

This diagram illustrates the biblical concept that God's true covenant people have always been identified by faith rather than merely by physical descent or outward association.

On the left is Old Testament Israel, representing the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant. Within that larger circle is a smaller circle labeled "True Jewish Believers by Faith." This reflects the biblical truth that not all physical Israelites belonged to the true spiritual remnant of God.




On the right is the New Testament Church, representing the visible body of professing Christians. Within that larger circle is a smaller circle labeled "True Christian Believers by Faith." Scripture teaches that genuine membership in Christ's body is not merely external but consists of those who possess saving faith in Jesus Christ.




The arrows originate from the two smaller circles because God's true covenant people are found among the faithful remnant, not merely among those who belong outwardly to Israel or the visible church.

Both groups converge into the circle labeled "Covenant Israel" beneath the Cross, symbolizing that all who are saved—whether Old Testament saints looking forward to Christ or New Testament believers looking back to Christ—are united through the same Savior and the same covenant promises fulfilled in Him.





The Cross above Covenant Israel emphasizes that Jesus Christ is the foundation, head, and object of worship for all God's redeemed people throughout history. Salvation has always been by grace through faith in Christ, and all true believers are united in Him as one covenant people. This was why that was when Messiah the Prince has confirmed the covenant with His People at the Cross for BOTH the Old Testament Saints and the New Testament Saints, where His Holy Spirit came from from the Cross to the former sea (Old Testament) and hinder sea (New Testament).




So the point is the smaller circles also illustrate the biblical principle that outward membership does not guarantee inclusion among God's elect people. Throughout both the Old Testament and New Testament eras, many have been called into the visible covenant community, yet only a faithful remnant are truly chosen by God through faith.

"For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14)

This truth is seen in national Israel, where only a remnant believed (Romans 9:6-8, 27), and it is also seen within the visible church, where not all who profess Christ truly belong to Him (2 Timothy 2:19). Therefore, the arrows originate from the smaller circles of genuine believers by faith, showing that God's true Covenant Israel consists of His chosen people from every age who trust in Christ.

Together they, people as "stones" are making up what God called the New Jerusalem!

@rwb

Thank you for that good diagram. Yes, I agree that God`s people are by faith - in God and in Christ when that revelation is known and received.

Christ is the covenant, (isa. 49: 8), however I see no scripture pointing to Him being Covenant Israel.

So, where are the scriptures saying that we, the Body of Christ are in the New Jerusalem?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Christ is the covenant, (isa. 49: 8), however I see no scripture pointing to Him being Covenant Israel.

Yes the key text is Isaiah 49:3–6. In this passage, the “Servant” is called “Israel,” but later in the same chapter the Servant has a mission to restore Israel:

“You are my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.” (Isaiah 49:3)
“It is too small a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob…” (Isaiah 49:6)

This creates a tension: the Servant is called “Israel,” yet His mission is to restore Israel. That’s why many readers understand this as a representative figure—one who embodies Israel’s calling in a perfect way.

That understanding becomes clearer in the New Testament’s application to Jesus Christ. For example:

• Jesus is called God’s “Son,” echoing Israel as God’s “son” (Exodus 4:22; Hosea 11:1 → Matthew 2:15).
• He relives Israel’s story: coming out of Egypt (Matthew 2:15), passing through water (baptism), tested in the wilderness (Matthew 4).
• Where Israel failed in obedience, Christ succeeds (Romans 5:19).

So the argument is not that the Bible uses the exact phrase “Christ is Israel,” but that it presents Christ as the true, faithful embodiment of what Israel was meant to be—the obedient servant who fulfills the covenant role Israel was called to carry. He is the Messiah the Prince, who have confirmed a covenant for His people, Covenant Israel.

Selah!

So, where are the scriptures saying that we, the Body of Christ are in the New Jerusalem?

You need to go and read Revelation 21:9-27 to find out who the great city is, spiritually. Eg. the 12 gates representing twelve tribes of the children of Israel (old testament saints) and the 12 foundations with the names of the twelves apostles of the Lamb (new testament saints). Therefore, the New Jerusalem is the body of Christ making up of all saints of the Old and the New Testament, SPIRITUALLY! She "IS" the bride of Christ, Revelation 21:9.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

`Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; your shall be my people, and I will be your God.` (Ex. 36: 28)

Are you saying we are going to live in Israel?

Acts 2: 1 - 5 the disciples receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. Not the same as Ez. 36: 34 - 28. Remember 70AD and Israel was overrun by the Romans. So they weren`t then able to `dwell in the land.`

They did dwell in the land until then. It doesn't say in that verse that they would dwell in the land forever. I guess I will have to spell this out to you in detail so that (maybe) you can see it.

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Acts 2:1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

Notice in Ezekiel 36 verses 24 and 28 that it talks about God bringing the Jews together "out of all countries" into their own land and they would dwell there. Is that not exactly what Acts 2 verses 1 and 5 say when it indicates that there were Jews "from every nation under heaven" in Jerusalem "with one accord in one place"? That matches what it says in Ezekiel 36:24,28 perfectly. And then you can see in Ezekiel 36:27 that it says "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.". In Acts 2:4 it says "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance". Again, a perfect match. What is described in Ezekiel 36:24-28 is exactly what is described in Acts 2:1-5. But, your response to that is asking if I'm saying we are going to live in Israel? No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I truly can't understand how you can misread what I'm saying as much as you do. It's baffling. But, I tried to clarify it here. Do you get my point now?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, all to do with the Body of Christ. it does not say that the Old Testament, just/righteous men (& women) came into the Body of Christ.

How can anyone who belongs to Christ not be in the body of Christ? The body of Christ is simply a reference to those who belong to Christ. The church. Do you not believe that Old Testament saints belong to Christ?

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

Heb. 12: 22 & 23 show the two groups.

What do you mean? Please don't make claims without quoting the scripture and showing me exactly what you mean and how you are coming to your conclusions. I'd rather not have to guess.

I agree that being in God`s family does NOT depend on ethnicity. However, there are those in every nation (including Israel) that turned to God and when they knew of Christ many received Him.

Okay, so why do you think that God has two separate people groups instead of one then? We're all one in Christ Jesus. Period. No one is a child of God apart from belonging to Christ, according to Galatians 3:26-29.

 

[Marilyn C]

Yes the key text is Isaiah 49:3–6. In this passage, the “Servant” is called “Israel,” but later in the same chapter the Servant has a mission to restore Israel:




This creates a tension: the Servant is called “Israel,” yet His mission is to restore Israel. That’s why many readers understand this as a representative figure—one who embodies Israel’s calling in a perfect way.

That understanding becomes clearer in the New Testament’s application to Jesus Christ. For example:

• Jesus is called God’s “Son,” echoing Israel as God’s “son” (Exodus 4:22; Hosea 11:1 → Matthew 2:15).
• He relives Israel’s story: coming out of Egypt (Matthew 2:15), passing through water (baptism), tested in the wilderness (Matthew 4).
• Where Israel failed in obedience, Christ succeeds (Romans 5:19).

So the argument is not that the Bible uses the exact phrase “Christ is Israel,” but that it presents Christ as the true, faithful embodiment of what Israel was meant to be—the obedient servant who fulfills the covenant role Israel was called to carry. He is the Messiah the Prince, who have confirmed a covenant for His people, Covenant Israel.

Selah!



You need to go and read Revelation 21:9-27 to find out who the great city is, spiritually. Eg. the 12 gates representing twelve tribes of the children of Israel (old testament saints) and the 12 foundations with the names of the twelves apostles of the Lamb (new testament saints). Therefore, the New Jerusalem is the body of Christ making up of all saints of the Old and the New Testament, SPIRITUALLY! She "IS" the bride of Christ, Revelation 21:9.

Some good comments there TS.

OK, let`s look at the New Jerusalem and who is there.

Agree that the OT saints are there because they were promised that. (Heb. 11: 16)

Agree that the 12 apostles of the Lamb are there because they were promised to `sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.` (Matt. 19: 28)

However, it does not say that the Body of Christ is there. Remember that the 12 apostles of the Lamb were for Israel. They did not have the revelation of the Body of Christ. Peter was trying to get Gentile believers to be Jewish. (Gal. 2: 11 - 14) The apostle Paul was the one to whom the ascended Lord gave the reveltyion of the Body of Christ. (Eph. 3: 1 - 7)

The title `Lamb` (capital L) has to do with Israel and not the Body of Christ. The `Lamb` refers to Israel`s Passover lamb. We know Jesus as a lamb but not the Lamb, as we never had a Feast of Passover. with lambs.

The New Jerusalem is NOT a bride it`s glory is described AS, AS a bride. it is a description NOT a reality. (Rev. 21: 2)

 

[Marilyn C]

They did dwell in the land until then. It doesn't say in that verse that they would dwell in the land forever. I guess I will have to spell this out to you in detail so that (maybe) you can see it.

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Acts 2:1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

Notice in Ezekiel 36 verses 24 and 28 that it talks about God bringing the Jews together "out of all countries" into their own land and they would dwell there. Is that not exactly what Acts 2 verses 1 and 5 say when it indicates that there were Jews "from every nation under heaven" in Jerusalem "with one accord in one place"? That matches what it says in Ezekiel 36:24,28 perfectly. And then you can see in Ezekiel 36:27 that it says "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.". In Acts 2:4 it says "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance". Again, a perfect match. What is described in Ezekiel 36:24-28 is exactly what is described in Acts 2:1-5. But, your response to that is asking if I'm saying we are going to live in Israel? No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I truly can't understand how you can misread what I'm saying as much as you do. It's baffling. But, I tried to clarify it here. Do you get my point now?

It doesn`t say `you shall dwell in the land for a short time.`

 

[Marilyn C]

How can anyone who belongs to Christ not be in the body of Christ? The body of Christ is simply a reference to those who belong to Christ. The church. Do you not believe that Old Testament saints belong to Christ?

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.


What do you mean? Please don't make claims without quoting the scripture and showing me exactly what you mean and how you are coming to your conclusions. I'd rather not have to guess.


Okay, so why do you think that God has two separate people groups instead of one then? We're all one in Christ Jesus. Period. No one is a child of God apart from belonging to Christ, according to Galatians 3:26-29.

The Body of Christ was begun when Jesus ascended to the Father and He sent the Holy Spirit with His divine nature to make us like Himself. How could people previously have Christ`s divine nature when He had even lived, died and risen to the Father.

Heb. 12: 22 & 23 `But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the New Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the General Assembly and church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect.`

We are all in unity, equal and of the same mind under Christ`s sovereign rulership. His seat of power and authority is (symbolically) Mont Zion in the highest. from there all other thrones are under His authority. And there are 3 groups according to the 3 realms God made.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Some good comments there TS.

OK, let`s look at the New Jerusalem and who is there.

Agree that the OT saints are there because they were promised that. (Heb. 11: 16)

Agree that the 12 apostles of the Lamb are there because they were promised to `sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.` (Matt. 19: 28)

However, it does not say that the Body of Christ is there. Remember that the 12 apostles of the Lamb were for Israel. They did not have the revelation of the Body of Christ. Peter was trying to get Gentile believers to be Jewish. (Gal. 2: 11 - 14) The apostle Paul was the one to whom the ascended Lord gave the reveltyion of the Body of Christ. (Eph. 3: 1 - 7)

The title `Lamb` (capital L) has to do with Israel and not the Body of Christ. The `Lamb` refers to Israel`s Passover lamb. We know Jesus as a lamb but not the Lamb, as we never had a Feast of Passover. with lambs.

Why does it matter when the mystery of the body of Christ was revealed? The mystery revealed in Ephesians 3:1-6 is "that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel". That was God's plan from the beginning, but just wasn't revealed until it was revealed to Paul. All believers from all time are fellow heirs of the same promise "in Christ through the gospel". The blood of Christ brought all believers from all time together as one. God has one people. Not two or three or however many you think there are. Nowhere does scripture teach that God has two or more people groups that belong to Him. We are all one. Paul goes out of his way to make that point repeatedly in his letters, so it should not be missed.

The New Jerusalem is NOT a bride it`s glory is described AS, AS a bride. it is a description NOT a reality. (Rev. 21: 2)

You need to keep reading after verse 2. The New Jerusalem is described as "the bride, the Lamb's wife".

Revelation 21:9 9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came [a]to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,