The Prophetic Feasts of Israel

[Earburner]

body, soul, spirit (1Thessalonians 5:23)
soul = intelligence
spirit= communion with God
A plant has a body.
A dog has a body and soul.
A human has a body, soul, spirit.

1 Thes. 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

One thing Christians MUST understand is that Paul IS NOT saying that people have a literal spirit or that they have a literal soul, as Religion/Paganism falsely believe it to be, but rather he is describing the combination of:
1. Our soul (G4154- mind)
2. Our body (G4983- flesh) which
3. constitutes the spirit (G4151-life), aka the sentient being of who a person is (having sense, perception; conscious thought).
Iows, we as living sentient beings of life, are made up of mind and flesh.
4. However: Born again Christians do have the literal Holy Spirit (Mind) of Christ within them, along side their own mind.

 

[Earburner]

I thought that the OT only spanned 4,096 years and that we are presently 2,028 years since the First advent.

I use BibleHub but I also find it lacking as well.

I was only estimating for reasons of getting to the point, that we shouldn't allow ourselves to stumble over the finite microscopic details of human words, when the vast knowledge of God's Holy Spirit within us is at our finger tips for our understanding.
1 Cor. 2
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1 Cor. 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
Edit: unfortunately, there are MANY Born again Christians who do HAVE the Mind of Christ, but instead have sold themselves short to listen to the scholarly "wisdom of men" that reside in church-ianity, as if they are THE authority, just because of attending a denominational Bible College or Seminary. Lol.

 

[William Barton]

According to these two scriptures they did.

Job 26:7 -
“He stretches out the north over empty space
And hangs the earth on nothing.

Isaiah 40:22 -
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

That is an English translation. The Hebrew word in Job 26:7 is Hebrew אךץ which indicates "land."

THERE WAS NO CONCEPT OF PLANTET EARTH IN BIBLICAL TIMES.

If you disagree, then I invite you to explain how they knew.

 

[Earburner]

That is not what I believe at all and I don't know of anyone who has that opinion. I am premill but I am not pre-trib. The 144,000 are exactly who the bible says they are. The Holy Spirit, being omni-present will "never" go away. The true "church" is made up of only those who are born again and we all receive the infilling of the HS upon salvation. It's the bible that says, within the context of the trumpet and vial judgments that men will "refuse" to repent, although they will be given the opportunity, thus sealing their own fate. The latter day born again of Israel, who will be 'spiritually" ready for the rapture but won't be because their destiny is different from the church's. According to scripture, Rev. 12:14 they will be taken to a place of safety for most of the latter part of the week.

As I said in post #50: I was using your terms of understanding, being that of a Pre-trib view and a Pre- mil view.
You have made it clear that you DO NOT believe in the (Rapture theory) Pre-trib. view.
But, you DO believe in the Pre-mil view.

However, you DO understand that there ARE MANY people who DO believe the Rapture theory, which they hope shall take place BEFORE the period of the Great tribulation.
As a result, all who believe in that manner are known as "Pre-Tribbers".

And yes, I agree! "The 144,000 are exactly who the bible says they are"(were).
The 12,000 that were chosen out of each of the 12 tribes of Israel, is symbolic of all the Old Covenant saints**, who died in faith believing of the Messiah that was prophesied to come.
Simeon of Luke 3:25-26 is one of those OC believers. Maybe you can name a few others in the NT, who also were alive upon the First appearance of Jesus. There are plenty to be found.
Now maybe we can see that ALL who were "under the altar", who were "remembered" by God, on the Day of Jesus' death and resurrection, are now asleep in Him. Malachi 3:16-18.

Edit: It's not by mistake that on that very day, the repentant thief on the cross said to Jesus: "REMEMBER me when you come into your kingdom".
Though you do not agree, the event of who the 144,000 were, is long past.

**Note: Mat. 27:50-54 and Rev. 6:9-11.

 

[William Barton]

1 Thes. 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

One thing Christians MUST understand is that Paul IS NOT saying that people have a literal spirit or that they have a literal soul, as Religion/Paganism falsely believe it to be, but rather he is describing the combination of:
1. Our soul (G4154- mind)
2. Our body (G4983- flesh) which
3. constitutes the spirit (G4151-life), aka the sense

1Thessalonians 5:23: "spirit and soul and body."

Proverbs 20:27 "the spirit (נשמת) of man is the lamp of Jehovah."

Romans 8:26: "Likewise the Spirit (πνευμα) helps us..."

 

[Earburner]

1Thessalonians 5:23: "spirit and soul and body."

Proverbs 20:27 "the spirit (נשמת) of man is the lamp of Jehovah."

Romans 8:26: "Likewise the Spirit (πνευμα) helps us..."

We all know that the mind of every man is by the combination of our fleshly brain and the Oxygenated blood that flows into it.
Apart from the Gift of the Holy Spirit of God, no man "from beneath" has ever been physically born with an immortal, eternal soul.
Remember? "The LIFE OF the flesh IS IN the blood...." Lev. 17:11

 

[Trekson]

As I said in post #50: I was using your terms of understanding, being that of a Pre-trib view and a Pre- mil view.
You have made it clear that you DO NOT believe in the (Rapture theory) Pre-trib. view.
But, you DO believe in the Pre-mil view.

However, you DO understand that there ARE MANY people who DO believe the Rapture theory, which they hope shall take place BEFORE the period of the Great tribulation.
As a result, all who believe in that manner are known as "Pre-Tribbers".

And yes, I agree! "The 144,000 are exactly who the bible says they are"(were).
The 12,000 that were chosen out of each of the 12 tribes of Israel, is symbolic of all the Old Covenant saints**, who died in faith believing of the Messiah that was prophesied to come.
Simeon of Luke 3:25-26 is one of those OC believers. Maybe you can name a few others in the NT, who also were alive upon the First appearance of Jesus. There are plenty to be found.
Now maybe we can see that ALL who were "under the altar", who were "remembered" by God, on the Day of Jesus' death and resurrection, are now asleep in Him. Malachi 3:16-18.

**Note: Mat. 27:50-54 and Rev. 6:9-11.

I don't think there is any symbolism regarding the 144,000 in a factual sense, numerically and spiritually born again believers in Christ. However, imo, they can symbolize the bride of Christ via the NJ. It's a prophecy. Those John saw "under" the altar aren't there yet because they won't start to die until the GT upon the church begins and that hasn't yet.

 

[William Barton]

We all know that the mind of every man is by the combination of our fleshly brain and the Oxygenated blood that flows into it.
Apart from the Gift of the Holy Spirit of God, no man "from beneath" has ever been physically born with an immortal, eternal soul.
Remember? "The LIFE OF the flesh IS IN the blood...." Lev. 17:11

IMO:
The life of the flesh is in the blood because the blood circulates food and oxygen throughout the body.

"Immortal" indicates "no death." Adam and Eve died because they were disobedient (Genesis 2:16-17).

 

[ewq1938]

1 Thes. 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

One thing Christians MUST understand is that Paul IS NOT saying that people have a literal spirit or that they have a literal soul, as Religion/Paganism falsely believe it to be

No, Paul corrctly teaches we are a body and soul and a spirit. The soul and spirit are joined together and that is what lives on when the body dies.

 

[Earburner]

No, Paul corrctly teaches we are a body and soul and a spirit. The soul and spirit are joined together and that is what lives on when the body dies.

I am NOT arguing any of that!
But first, you MUST come to terms with the truthful fact that in the days of Paul etc. ALL PEOPLE THEN were ignorant of HOW the human body (or of any species) functioned!!
I am explaining it of what the denominational religions of men couldn't do and can't do, but vainly still TRIES to do, through their religion, as YOU are DOING.

Only until the early 1800's was it then that man has become fully aware and knowledgeable about how the human body functions.
Dan. 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Everytime someone tries to explain 1Thes. 5:23 outside of the FULFILLED prophecy of Dan. 12:4, they have no other choice of explanation except to describe it through "religious speak", which is through their own denominational doctrine.

 

[William Barton]

We all know that the mind of every man is by the combination of our fleshly brain and the Oxygenated blood that flows into it.
Apart from the Gift of the Holy Spirit of God, no man "from beneath" has ever been physically born with an immortal, eternal soul.
Remember? "The LIFE OF the flesh IS IN the blood...." Lev. 17:11

The life of the body is in the blood because without blood we are dead. It tends the body. So do the lungs.

We also require oxygen, water, and food without which we are dead.

 

[Earburner]

The life of the body is in the blood because without blood we are dead. It tends the body. So do the lungs.

We also require oxygen, water, and food without which we are dead.

Thank you for agreeing with the correct understanding of how it was that "man became a living soul", which is to also say that man did not receive the thing of "a soul".

 

[ewq1938]

I am NOT arguing any of that!

Good because Paul is crystal clear we have a body, soul and spirit.

 

[ewq1938]

Thank you for agreeing with the correct understanding of how it was that "man became a living soul", which is to also say that man did not receive the thing of "a soul".

No, both are true. We have a soul and we are also a soul in a figure of speech way.

Soul has a few definitions.


1: The word soul is an old English term that could be used in place of the word "person" or "human being". Basically if you had a soul you could be called a soul.


2: The word soul can be a reference to the human body.


3: The word soul is also the spiritual part of human beings (it's moral and emotional aspect), and survives death and will wait for a physical body to inhabit again at the resurrection.


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Here we have all the parts that comprise a whole person:

body
soul
spirit


The soul above is definition 3.


1Pe_3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Here soul is speaking of all three, body soul and spirit together as a complete person. This would be a soul as in definition 1 and 2.


Human beings have a soul and a spirit and a body. Colloquially a person is a "soul" but a different type of soul than the soul within us.