Should I buy a sword?

[Wrangler]

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In the book of Acts - it never happened on a Tuesday. You got me there. Also, things may have occurred during the time of Acts that are not recorded. Once one accepts DEFENSE is morally justified, the means and ways of achieving it become secondary. Does the Armor of God contain weapons? Well, that’s a spiritual weapon. Agh, a weapon by any other name achieves God’s purpose just as well. David didn’t sling a spiritual stone. Adam and Eve were not covered in spiritual skins to cover their sin. What weapon was used by God to kill the animal and skin the animal is irrelevant.

Yet, Christ commanded to buy a sword because Ecclesiastes is right, there is a time for peace and a time for war. Maybe the time for war is not on Tuesday. Doesn’t mean there is never a time for war.

 

[Anchorite]

I agree with you, David. If we are to be killed because we refuse to deny Christ, or simply because we hold to the name of Christians- we should not kill them. We should die as martyrs and happily to have such a privilege. We even have examples of the early fathers desiring this.

But for me- I make a distinction between being martyr'd for Christ and just standing and watching a crazed madman or woman plow down innocent children while at school. If I was there and armed I would do whatever I could to stop him and save lives. That is the only reason to be armed in the first place.
Sometimes a cop arrives before the carnage is over- but why would I not intervene to stop it sooner, if able? Every police officer I have spoken to- says that they WANT law abiding citizens armed. A good man with a gun is not a threat to anyone.
Some feel differently. I understand.
In other countries other than the USA I understand your minds have been molded by government taking away your right to defend. But nowhere in the scriptures do I see us being told not to do the right thing. I do put the lives of countless others as more important than the one who is trying to take their lives. It is evil. He needs to be stopped.
Even if only shot in his trigger arm or legs- then he can face trial and life in prison. If a cop shoots- trust me, he wont survive. The sword is not in vain. To say it's only "allowed" if you're a cop or whatever- is an error in my opinion because cops don't agree- they give their authorization to law abiding because they see the need for help. WHY would we just stand and watch or hide in the closet instead of protecting the innocent? That's what a coward does- and we know where cowards end up.
They are not called until people are dead and simply can not arrive early enough.

I don't know what a Christian nation looks like because the USA no longer is one. So yes, Americans do have different views on that. It may have been started by Christians but we have strayed very far. Our laws are no longer Christian. We sanction killing babies, and allow gay marriage etc.
We do have freedom to practice our religion but that became a double edged sword once we became populated with Muslims and Buddists etc because we must also give them those freedoms. Those responsible for populating us with other faiths KNEW this. It was purposeful. Prez O initiated much of it. Now, we are seeing Muslims elected to high offices and we ought to be aware of the intent behind the Muslim faith to take us over. Instead, we were labeled intolerant racists or white supremacists when we called out that danger.
So we attempt to live peacefully with them and only time will tell how well that goes. We should not rise up against them in war if they become more powerful in this country. All we can do is vote.

But a scenario of mass carnage that has nothing to do with faith is something that I will aid the police if I am able. I do not feel convicted that there is any wrong in that. I see it as having mercy on the innocent.
What good is there if we all just stand there and die and the police show up to a school of death with a mass murderer who has fled or kills a cop? We should help if we can. There is no "revenge" there nor is there hatred, but a sense of duty to your fellow man. It is not in vain.
We are commanded to love our neighbor- to treat them as we want to be treated- absolutely! The question that leaves is how do I choose who to love in that scenario? Is it loving to stand and watch people being slaughtered?- is it right to save a life or destroy it? Am I loving someone by allowing him to mass murder others? Or is it loving to spare the innocent? I can't see this another way. It's not a question to me which is right before God.
God gives us each other to help one another. Not to hold to His law improperly when it is causing harm and death. What is more holy?
That is what Jesus taught against. Holding to no work on the Sabbath law as if it meant not helping another in danger- even an ox.

You bring up a scenario that exposes underlying nuances.

You imagine a situation where a crazed shooter is on a killing spree, but why are you carrying a lethal weapon? Are you expecting trouble? Have you been attacked in the past?

An armed security guard or police should be the protector, not a Christian who walks around with a gun on him.

Now, carrying pepper gel as non-lethal defense against unleashed dogs might be good. You could squirt the pepper gel at the crazed gunman, if close enough. Or you could rush the shooter and try to tackle him.

Or command the murder spirit to come out of the man in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Wrangler]

I agree with you, David. If we are to be killed because we refuse to deny Christ, or simply because we hold to the name of Christians- we should not kill them. We should die as martyrs and happily to have such a privilege. We even have examples of the early fathers desiring this.

But for me- I make a distinction between being martyr'd for Christ and just standing and watching a crazed madman or woman plow down innocent children while at school.

We’re on the same page. I agree and often think about the young lady first killed at a school massacre. (I’m not sure if this story is from Columbine, but I believe so.) Anyway, as the story goes, the killer approached her first and gave her a choice: die or deny Christ. She choose martyrdom, bless her soul.

That’s a different scenario than some crazy person trying to harm my grandchildren. I’ll do what I can to protect innocents from evil. If it means using the sword my Lord commanded I buy, so be it.

 

[PS95]

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Peter wrongly initiated violence that night. Christians should never initiate violence. Peter was living by the sword.
If the Romans had come that night and began stabbing the disciples do you think that Jesus would said don't use the swords I told you to get? It's time for you all to die? He was not saying that. He was saying not to live by the sword. Jesus knew He was the one to die. Peter was turning it into a war between the Romans and the disciples- The disciples surely would have been killed by the Romans had Jesus not stopped Peter.
This scene is about Jesus and how He had to fulfill the scriptures and be arrested taken to the cross- not killed by the Romans because his men were revolutionaries who attacked the Roman army.
He is not saying that using a sword to stop a mass murderer who is randomly slaughtering others- is in vain.
People do read that into it- but it is not there. Of course we should not live our lives being violent ( Living by the sword) That does not mean we are to be door mats and hide while children are being mass murdered. We are to be strong and courageous and understand that God's law are made for our good and that includes saving innocent lives not just watching them be destroyed.

We have to be very careful about right and wrong - good and evil in these instances. No one should be careless with a weapon or use it to stop being martyred for Jesus' name. We don't live by the sword which means to seek out violence- which the one who does he will die by the sword.
Love your neighbor. You pick. Love means hiding while they are all slaughtered? Or does loving them mean to help them? Should we LOVE the mass shooter by allowing him to continue on his his carnage or stop him to protect others? THINK! God laws are meant for good.

 

[Gray_Joy]

View attachment 85363

Paul resisted evil people. Matthew 5:39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.

Acts 23

Acts 23
New International Reader's Version
​

23 Paul looked straight at the Sanhedrin. “My brothers,” he said, “I have always done my duty to God. To this day I feel that I have done nothing wrong.” 2 Ananias the high priest heard this. So he ordered the men standing near Paul to hit him on the mouth. 3 Then Paul said to him, “You pretender! God will hit you! You sit there and judge me by the law. But you yourself broke the law when you commanded them to hit me!”
4 Those who were standing near Paul spoke to him. They said, “How dare you talk like that to God’s high priest!”
5 Paul replied, “Brothers, I didn’t realize he was the high priest. It is written, ‘Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people.’ ” (Exodus 22:28)
6 Paul knew that some of them were Sadducees and the others were Pharisees. So he called out to the members of the Sanhedrin. “My brothers,” he said, “I am a Pharisee. I come from a family of Pharisees. I believe that people will rise from the dead. That’s why I am on trial.” 7 When he said this, the Pharisees and the Sadducees started to argue. They began to take sides. 8 The Sadducees say that people will not rise from the dead. They don’t believe there are angels or spirits either. But the Pharisees believe all these things.
9 People were causing trouble and making a lot of noise. Some of the teachers of the law who were Pharisees stood up. They argued strongly. “We find nothing wrong with this man,” they said. “What if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?” 10 The people arguing were getting out of control. The commanding officer was afraid that Paul would be torn to pieces by them. So he ordered the soldiers to go down and take him away from them by force. The officer had told them to bring Paul into the fort.
11 The next night the Lord stood near Paul. He said, “Be brave! You have told people about me in Jerusalem. You must do the same in Rome.”

The Plan to Kill Paul​

12 The next morning some Jews gathered secretly to make plans against Paul. They made a promise to themselves. They promised that they would not eat or drink anything until they killed him. 13 More than 40 men took part in this plan. 14 They went to the chief priests and the elders. They said, “We have made a special promise to God. We will not eat anything until we have killed Paul. 15 Now then, you and the Sanhedrin must make an appeal to the commanding officer. Ask him to bring Paul to you. Pretend you want more facts about his case. We are ready to kill him before he gets here.”
16 But Paul’s nephew heard about this plan. So he went into the fort and told Paul.
17 Then Paul called one of the commanders. He said to him, “Take this young man to the commanding officer. He has something to tell him.” 18 So the commander took Paul’s nephew to the officer.
The commander said, “Paul, the prisoner, sent for me. He asked me to bring this young man to you. The young man has something to tell you.”
19 The commanding officer took the young man by the hand. He spoke to him in private. “What do you want to tell me?” the officer asked.
20 He said, “Some Jews have agreed to ask you to bring Paul to the Sanhedrin tomorrow. They will pretend they want more facts about him. 21 Don’t give in to them. More than 40 of them are waiting in hiding to attack him. They have promised that they will not eat or drink anything until they have killed him. They are ready now. All they need is for you to bring Paul to the Sanhedrin.”
22 The commanding officer let the young man go. But he gave him a warning. “Don’t tell anyone you have reported this to me,” he said.

Paul Is Taken to Caesarea​

23 Then the commanding officer called for two of his commanders. He ordered them, “Gather a company of 200 soldiers, 70 horsemen and 200 men armed with spears. Get them ready to go to Caesarea at nine o’clock tonight. 24 Provide horses for Paul so that he may be taken safely to Governor Felix.”
25 Here is the letter the officer wrote.
26 I, Claudius Lysias, am writing this letter.
I am sending it to His Excellency, Governor Felix.
Greetings.
27 The Jews grabbed Paul. They were about to kill him. But I came with my soldiers and saved him. I had learned that he is a Roman citizen. 28 I wanted to know why they were bringing charges against him. So I brought him to their Sanhedrin. 29 I found out that the charge against him was based on questions about their law. But there was no charge against him worthy of death or prison. 30 Then I was told about a plan against the man. So I sent him to you at once. I also ordered those bringing charges against him to present their case to you.
31 The soldiers followed their orders. During the night they took Paul with them. They brought him as far as Antipatris. 32 The next day they let the horsemen go on with him. The soldiers returned to the fort. 33 The horsemen arrived in Caesarea. They gave the letter to the governor. Then they handed Paul over to him. 34 The governor read the letter. He asked Paul where he was from. He learned that Paul was from Cilicia. 35 So he said, “I will hear your case when those bringing charges against you get here.” Then he ordered that Paul be kept under guard in Herod’s palace.

​

 

[MatthewG]

There is nothing wrong with someone protecting themselves in self‑defense. Acting like self‑defense is somehow sinful or unchristian is just silly.

Whether someone is a Christian or not, if you’re in a situation where you have to defend yourself or protect someone else, you react. You either step in or you don’t. And sometimes the wisest thing you can do is get away and call 911. Not every situation is the same — life is full of different circumstances and outcomes.

Even in my field — mental health care — there are moments when a client may become aggressive or try to harm another client. Our job is to keep the peace, prevent harm, and guide them toward healthier behaviors. That’s not violence; that’s responsibility, protection, and wisdom.

And Scripture actually supports this kind of balanced, situational wisdom:

• Proverbs 27:12 — “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.” (Wisdom means recognizing danger and responding appropriately.)
• Ecclesiastes 3:1, 3 — “To everything there is a season… a time to kill and a time to heal… a time for war and a time for peace.” (Life has different moments that require different responses.)
• Luke 22:36 — Jesus told His disciples to carry a sword, not to start violence, but to be prepared in a dangerous world. (Preparation and protection are not sins.)
• Romans 13:3–4 — Authorities are described as “God’s servants” who “do not bear the sword in vain.” (God acknowledges the need for force to restrain harm.)

Self‑defense is not about hatred or aggression — it’s about preventing harm. Even Jesus, who taught peace, never told people to stand there and let themselves or others be destroyed. He taught wisdom, discernment, and responsibility.

So yes — case closed. Life is situational, and God expects us to use wisdom in each situation.

 

[Justified]

Does there have to be a command in addition to buying a sword and the implications of that?

Yes. In looking at the context, which we always must do:

Luk 22:36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
Luk 22:37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.”
Luk 22:38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”

There are really two possibilities based on the context: 1) The "For" at the start of v. 27 gives the reason for what is said in v. 26; that's how "for" often functions, and 2) Jesus is speaking of figurative swords, meaning that the disciples will need to find courage for what is coming.

Additional context to support both of those possibilities, showing that Jesus never meant swords to be used on the offensive:

Mat 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Mat 5:5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”


Luke 22: 36-38 is immediately prior to Jesus's arrest. Yet, he says that two swords are enough and then ends up telling Peter to put back his sword as those "who take the sword will perish by the sword." Never mind the impossibility of two swords being enough for either going on the offensive or to defend twelve people.

What you are doing is taking one verse of Jesus as though it settles the matter, ignoring everything else that proves your understanding to be in error. Then there is the problem of ignoring the context of the rest of the NT, where there is not only not a single command to use a sword against one's enemies, nor a single example of a follower of Christ doing so, there are numerous commands which contradict such an idea (which you have repeatedly refused to address).

Please stop proof-texting and learn how context works, for your sake.

 

[PS95]

We’re on the same page. I agree and often think about the young lady first killed at a school massacre. (I’m not sure if this story is from Columbine, but I believe so.) Anyway, as the story goes, the killer approached her first and gave her a choice: die or deny Christ. She choose martyrdom, bless her soul.

That’s a different scenario than some crazy person trying to harm my grandchildren. I’ll do what I can to protect innocents from evil. If it means using the sword my Lord commanded I buy, so be it.

I think we all need to be convinced and apparently some disagree. It's ok with me. I just can't imagine thinking I am being more holy by just watching little kids being slaughtered instead of stopping the lunatic.
Seems mileage varies...
Like everything else these arguments just seem to go in circles.. I am saddened by the thought that many of my brothers and sisters here would see me as sinning for protecting others. But that has to be ok too.. we have one judge.

 

[PS95]

You bring up a scenario that exposes underlying nuances.
You imagine a situation where a crazed shooter is on a killing spree, but why are you carrying a lethal weapon? Are you expecting trouble? Have you been attacked in the past?

I would carry in case I had to protect someone. No other reason.

An armed security guard or police should be the protector, not a Christian who walks around with a gun on him.

Is a guard or the cop not a Christian? Did you know that the police fully back law abiding owning guns for this very reason?

Now, carrying pepper gel as non-lethal defense against unleashed dogs might be good. You could squirt the pepper gel at the crazed gunman, if close enough. Or you could rush the shooter and try to tackle him.

I'm not talking about dogs. You want me to get to close enough to a mass shooter to try to spray gel in his eyes? God gave us brains to use. I'd be killed instantly if I were to act so stupidly- that does nothing to protect the others.

Or command the murder spirit to come out of the man in the name of Jesus Christ.

You can try that if you choose.
I would quickly pray for guidance instead.

 

[NayborBear]

And that is relevant how?

Deuteronomy 32:
5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.
15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

By being "seduced, lulled, beguiled" to "BECOME SO TOLERANT of EVIL?"
To become the DOORMAT for any and ALL SORTS of Mischief!"

So? My question to YOU?
IS THERE ANYTHING YOU WOULD CONSIDER TO BE A "JUST WAR?"
You would NOT DEFEND? WITH ARMS?
UNTIL THE "THREAT" IS GONE?

 

[Gray_Joy]

Does there have to be a command in addition to buying a sword and the implications of that?

I think the command to buy a weapon should afford the implication. As shown by the fact one of those Disciples of all whom Jesus commanded to buy swords , was armed with his own.

These men were former fishermen.Matthew was what today would be known as a tax accountant. Men occupying professions that did not require weaponry. Men who did not initially own weapons were told by the king of Heaven to buy them.

It seems silly for anyone to insist he was wrong,or contradicting himself,for doing so.

Psalm 144:1
Of David. Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle

 

[Gray_Joy]

I think we all need to be convinced and apparently some disagree. It's ok with me. I just can't imagine thinking I am being more holy by just watching little kids being slaughtered instead of stopping the lunatic.

Imagine not doing something. Because the excerpt from the New Testament holds more importance. "Resist not an evil person."

I'd rather save the innocent. And pray for forgiveness after.

Seems mileage varies...
Like everything else these arguments just seem to go in circles.. I am saddened by the thought that many of my brothers and sisters here would see me as sinning for protecting others. But that has to be ok too.. we have one judge.

 

[Wrangler]

You imagine a situation where a crazed shooter is on a killing spree, but why are you carrying a lethal weapon?

Proverbs 22:3
The prudent see danger and take refuge,
but the simple keep going and pay the penalty.​

Have you been attacked in the past?

No need to make this personal.

An armed security guard or police should be the protector, not a Christian who walks around with a gun on him.

100% wrong. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

Now, carrying pepper gel as non-lethal defense against unleashed dogs might be good.

I agree with layers of defense, including lethal and non-lethal force. Recently got me, my wife and daughter pepper spray.

Without going into a lot of detail, my daughter is suddenly in a vulnerable situation. I got her 3 sizes of pepper spray: personal carry, purse or car and home (small-medium-large). The home size is like a small fire extinguisher in comparison. Leary she was about using lethal force. I told her that her bedroom is her last line of defense to protect her and my granddaughter. Odo Armoris.

I also got her a billy club. Told her that if someone breaks your bedroom door down then gets pepper sprayed by a small fire extinguisher sized bottle THEN capped in the knees by your billy club IS STILL coming after you, the person deserves to die. My daughter realized that truth and was comfortable using lethal force as a last resort in such a case, which it should be always.

 

[Anchorite]

I think the command to buy a weapon should afford the implication. As shown by the fact one of those Disciples of all whom Jesus commanded to buy swords , was armed with his own.

These men were former fishermen.Matthew was what today would be known as a tax accountant. Men occupying professions that did not require weaponry. Men who did not initially own weapons were told by the king of Heaven to buy them.

It seems silly for anyone to insist he was wrong,or contradicting himself,for doing so.

Psalm 144:1
Of David. Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle

It is silly to claim that Jesus wanted His disciples to defend themselves with swords. He never said that.

Jesus said buy a sword, and the disciples replied they had two swords, Jesus said that was enough.

Thus, the swords were not for self defense or for killing those who attack. Two swords would not be nearly enough to combat the Roman soldiers who were coming to arrest Jesus.

In fact, when Peter used his sword to cut off someone’s ear, Jesus healed the ear and scolded Peter to put away his sword.

Jesus condemned weaponry by saying that all who use the sword will perish by the sword.

Those two swords were enough for Jesus to be reckoned among the transgressors. The Roman soldiers could see the swords and arrest Jesus for being an instigator of armed rebellion against the empire.

"Jesus reckoned among the transgressors" refers to the fulfillment of prophecy (Isaiah 53:12) where Jesus was treated, condemned, and executed as a common criminal, specifically by being crucified between two thieves. This act represents his deep identification with sinful humanity, substituting himself in the place of sinners to achieve atonement and reconciliation with God.

 

[Wrangler]

Men who did not initially own weapons were told by the king of Heaven to buy them.

the king of Heaven just wants us to have dust collectors? LOL

 

[Anchorite]

 

[Gray_Joy]

the king of Heaven just wants us to have dust collectors? LOL

Or paper weights.

We can read what the Father does to his enemies.

Including Satan and his fellow dark angels,in time.

 

[Anchorite]

Or paper weights.

Still waiting for you to quote book of Acts verses where believers defended themselves with weapons.

 

[MatthewG]

This is really more of a real‑life, situational question. Weaved in with Jesus and the purchased sword, from Wrangler.

Under U.S. law, you cannot kill someone and claim self‑defense unless your life (or someone else’s life) was in immediate danger. If there was no real threat of death or serious bodily harm, the self‑defense claim collapses instantly.

Federal law backs this up. The key standard comes from 18 U.S.C. § 1111 and § 1112, combined with federal self‑defense doctrine recognized by the courts:

• A person may use deadly force only if they reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm.
• If the threat is not imminent, or not deadly, deadly force is not justified.
• If you kill someone without that level of threat, it becomes unlawful homicide, not self‑defense.

Federal courts repeatedly reaffirm this rule. One of the clearest statements comes from federal jury instructions used nationwide:

Deadly force is justified only when the defendant reasonably believed they faced an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury.

I’ve seen dozens of cases where someone tried to claim self‑defense without an actual life‑threatening situation — and every time, the courts rejected it.

 

[Wrangler]

Because the excerpt from the New Testament holds more importance. "Resist not an evil person."

Discernment and Context. Because spiritual war is the primary war, the context of not resisting an evil person is the danger to you in being tempted by the evil person to do evil yourself. The analogy I use is a sail; don’t let the evil be like wind in your sail taking you where you don‘t want to go. Such is the intent of turn the other cheek. Don’t lose you temper, etc.

As well as Romans 12:18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. @NayborBear points out, what are we to do when peace is not possible, not dependent on us? In such a case, it is not possible to resist evil. It becomes a matter of life and death and God wants us to choose life. (One Pastor says the whole Bible can be summed up in two words, Choose Life.)