If sealed with the HS, how does one become UNsealed ?

[doctrox]

Hey Doc, your post does not show who you were responding to.

It sure does. Read it again. It begins with: "From the OP:" (that's you).

As of Eph 4:30 SEALED UNTO REDEMPTION, I find no instances of a believer becoming UNsealed.

Your word "UNsealed" does not appear in the Holy Bible.

Is there any [instances] that you can list ?

Read the post.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I did not infer that it does. Perhaps you misunderstood. Rather, my exact quote was:

From the first sentence through to the second, "one can fall away" = "some shall depart from the faith."

"falling away"
By ACTIONS or no longer trusting the death/burial/resurrection of Christ ?

If no longer TRUSTING the DBR that again confirms that ongoing faith/belief/trust is THE requirement to be Eph 4:30 sealed unto redemption

If "falling away" by ACTIONS yet still trusts the DBR, then where are the verses that teach UNsealed c/- ACTIONS ?

 

[PeterAndroz]

It sure does. Read it again. It begins with: "From the OP:" (that's you).


Your word "UNsealed" does not appear in the Holy Bible.


Read the post.

Neither does the word BIBLE or TRINITY
UNsealed - have the HS taken from them
What verses did I quote that teach a Eph 4:30 SEALED UNTO REDEMPTION believer can become "UNsealed"" by their 'actions' ?

 

[doctrox]

"falling away"
By ACTIONS or no longer trusting the death/burial/resurrection of Christ ?

If no longer TRUSTING the DBR that again confirms that ongoing faith/belief/trust is THE requirement to be Eph 4:30 sealed unto redemption

If "falling away" by ACTIONS yet still trusts the DBR, then where are the verses that teach UNsealed c/- ACTIONS ?

Again, the verse I quoted was: "..."some shall depart from the faith." That would be the same faith referred to by GodsGrace:

23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast,

Those pesky IF's.

What verses did I quote that teach a Eph 4:30 SEALED UNTO REDEMPTION can become UNsealed by their 'actions' ?

What verses did I quote that show the Holy Spirit left a believer? Read them here.

The Holy Spirit left King Saul because of his "actions" - his repeated, willful disobedience and unrepentant heart, which rendered him unfit to lead God's people. God withdrew this Spirit, who had been given to equip Saul for kingly duties, and allowed an evil spirit to torment him.

 

[Truth7t7]

Christ through Paul teaches how we receive the HS.
Where does Christ through Paul teach that a SEALED believer can become UNsealed ?
Verses please :)
.....
Eph 1:13 :-
In whom ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30 :-
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God,
whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Impossible to become unsealed as your presented verses in Ephesians clearly shows

Fact is, once saved always saved is a biblical reality, and the two verses silences any disagreement

 

[PeterAndroz]

I did not infer that it does. Perhaps you misunderstood. Rather, my exact quote was:

From the first sentence through to the second, "one can fall away" = "some shall depart from the faith."

What PAULINE verses AFTER Eph 4:30 shows that the HS departed a believer ?
"believer" - some one who trusts only the death/burial/resurrection of Christ for the forgiveness of their sins

 

[doctrox]

Impossible to become unsealed as your presented verses in Ephesians clearly shows

Fact is once saved always saved is a biblical reality, and the two verses silences any disagreement

No scripture = no discernment.

What verses AFTER Eph 4:30 shows that the HS departed a believer ?

What verses did I quote that show the Holy Spirit left a believer because of his actions? Read them here.

What PAULINE verses AFTER Eph 4:30 shows that the HS departed a believer ?

There are 27 appearances of the word "seal", yet the OP would limit us to just two verses in Ephesians. Regardless, the question initially foisted was easy enough to answer. But, as we have seen, the OP has gone on to reveal an agenda that has little to do with seals and everything to do with the ballyhooed heresy known as OSAS (once saved, always saved).

Folks, dishonest OP's bring debaters into disrepute. Such spin is not worthy of my time and shouldn't be worthy of yours, either.

 

[PeterAndroz]

No scripture = no discernment.


What verses did I quote that show the Holy Spirit left a believer because of his actions? Read them here.

Is Samuel & Psalms AFTER Eph 4:30 ?
I'll rephrase to avoid confusion
List the verses FROM PAUL after Eph 4:30 that teach a 'believer' had the HS taken away from them by their 'actions'
"believer"- someone who trusts only the death/burial/resurrection of Christ for forgiveness of their sins

 

[doctrox]

I'll rephrase to avoid confusion
List the verses FROM PAUL after Eph 4:30 that teach a 'believer' had the HS taken away from them by their 'actions'

I'll rephrase to avoid confusion. Read the post.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I'll rephrase to avoid confusion. Read the post.

and what does Paul teach are the action requirements to be saved/sealed/justified ?
So either Paul is contradicting himself or YOU ARE CONFUSED
Titus 3:
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal 3:
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Rom 3:
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 11:
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Hear Paul:

1 Timothy 1:18-20, "This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

1 Timothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

1 Timothy 6:9-10, "But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

1 Timothy 6:20-21, "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen."

2 Timothy 2:16-18, "But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some."

Galatians 5:4, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

Galatians 6:1, "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."

Romans 11:19-23, "Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again."

You want to use "delivered unto satan" to equate becoming UNsaved, Unsealed ?
Let's see:-
1 Cor 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[doctrox]

You want to use "delivered unto satan" to equate becoming UNsaved, Unsealed ?

No, but you do.
.

"believer" - some one who trusts only the death/burial/resurrection of Christ for the forgiveness of their sins

Hey Doc,

Hey Peter, you've posted 500 times since you joined this site just one month ago. You've been quite busy accusing the brethren. For example, here is merely one page of 20 posts where you continually accuse the brethren of not being a Christian with your mantra of "not trusting in only the death/burial/resurrection of Christ."

Is there something you want to get off your chest?

 

[PeterAndroz]

No, but you do.
.

Hey Peter, you've posted 500 times since you joined this site just one month ago. You've been accusing the brethren continually,. For example, here is merely one page of 20 posts where you accuse the brethren with your mantra of "not trusting in only the death/burial/resurrection of Christ."

Is there something you want to get off your chest?

Stop teaching that a Eph 4:30 SEALED UNTO REDEMPTION believer can become UNsealed ( lose the HS) by their actions since nowhere is that taught by Paul.
.
Paul teaches how to be saved/sealed/justified which is by faith and NOT actions.
'Actions' are subject to rewards/loss at the JSOC yet regardless the believer remains eteranlly saved.
"Actions' are NOT a JUSTIFICATION requirement, only belief is.
..
Titus 3:
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal 3:
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Rom 3:
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 11:
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[doctrox]

My work here is finished. Goodbye, Peter.

 

[PeterAndroz]

My work here is finished. Goodbye, Peter.

Your false teachings are destroyed by Paul, yes goodbye

 

[Gray_Joy]

No scripture = no discernment.


What verses did I quote that show the Holy Spirit left a believer because of his actions? Read them here.


There are 27 appearances of the word "seal", yet the OP would limit us to just two verses in Ephesians. Regardless, the question initially foisted was easy enough to answer. But, as we have seen, the OP has gone on to reveal an agenda that has little to do with seals and everything to do with the ballyhooed heresy known as OSAS (once saved, always saved).

Folks, dishonest OP's bring debaters into disrepute. Such spin is not worthy of my time and shouldn't be worthy of yours, either.

It is worth readers time to listen to both sides and realize in this matter,only one side is correct. God.

When someone quotes the Old Testament verses that they are proof a New Testament believer can become unsealed by the holy Spirit,they are mistaken.

If we read Acts 2 that is when we learn the holy spirit indwelt believers for the first time.

Whereas, in the Old Testament the holy Spirit came upon,or to, those whom the spirit enlisted to his service. And usually to leaders,kings,prophets.

1 Samuel 16:14

Which is why king David in the Psalm feared his sin with Bathsheba would lead the spirit to abandon him .

Whereas the New Testament Ephesians 1 tells us,God's seal,the indwelling of his holy spirit,is permanent.

13 In Him,you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise, 14 who is a first installment of our inheritance, in regard to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.


edit phrasing

 

[PeterAndroz]

My work here is finished. Goodbye, Peter.

Pray for yourself Doc
Gal 3:-
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
You are claiming that a Eph 4:30 sealed unto redemption believer by their actions can lose the HS yet that is not supported by Paul.
My only grey area is that some teach 2 Tim 2:13 "cannot deny Himself" teaches a believer remains sealed even if they no longer believe which I find very difficult to believe.
..
Justification is by faith ALONE & I believe that the faith must be ongoing
..

Based on the teachings of Paul - Romans to Philemon

ONLY Christ taught Paul The Gospel that saves us today
Gal 1:
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Gal 2:2
And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
1 Cor 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Paul call's it My Gospel, NOBODY else does

What ACTIONS are required by us to be AND REMAIN saved,sealed,justified by That Gospel ?
Titus 3:
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal 3:
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Rom 3:
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 11:
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[Truth7t7]

No scripture = no discernment.


What verses did I quote that show the Holy Spirit left a believer because of his actions? Read them here.


There are 27 appearances of the word "seal", yet the OP would limit us to just two verses in Ephesians. Regardless, the question initially foisted was easy enough to answer. But, as we have seen, the OP has gone on to reveal an agenda that has little to do with seals and everything to do with the ballyhooed heresy known as OSAS (once saved, always saved).

Folks, dishonest OP's bring debaters into disrepute. Such spin is not worthy of my time and shouldn't be worthy of yours, either.

OSAS, Eternal Security Is A Biblical Reality

John 10:26-30KJV
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey Doc, your post does not show who you were responding to.
OT has incidences where the HS was removed/taken from believers due to their 'actions'
...
As of Eph 4:30 SEALED UNTO REDEMPTION, I find no instances of a believer becoming UNsealed.
Is there any that you can list ?

You did not reply to my post giving you an example of some becoming UNSEALED.

Here it is:

2 Peter 2:20-23
. 20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.

22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

 

[GodsGrace]

Pray for yourself Doc
Gal 3:-
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
You are claiming that a Eph 4:30 sealed unto redemption believer by their actions can lose the HS yet that is not supported by Paul.
My only grey area is that some teach 2 Tim 2:13 "cannot deny Himself" teaches a believer remains sealed even if they no longer believe which I find very difficult to believe.
..
Justification is by faith ALONE & I believe that the faith must be ongoing
..

Based on the teachings of Paul - Romans to Philemon

ONLY Christ taught Paul The Gospel that saves us today
Gal 1:
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Gal 2:2
And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
1 Cor 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Paul call's it My Gospel, NOBODY else does

What ACTIONS are required by us to be AND REMAIN saved,sealed,justified by That Gospel ?
Titus 3:
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal 3:
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Rom 3:
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 11:
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

No.
YOU needd the prayers Peter Androz.

Every verse you've posted above is about THE LAW or has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Here.
Let's play who can post the most verses:


These are about how we have to do works:

JESUS said that if we do not ACT on His words...
we will be like the foolish man whose house fell.

Matthew 7:26-27
26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”


It looks, from the following,
that Jesus knew what He was teaching.

..................................................................

Matthew 5:16 ESV / 627 helpful votes​

In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:10 ESV / 534 helpful votes​

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

James 2:14-17 ESV / 486 helpful votes​

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV / 446 helpful votes​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

James 2:26 ESV / 320 helpful votes​

For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Colossians 3:23-24 ESV / 303 helpful votes​

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.

Hebrews 13:16 ESV / 245 helpful votes​

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

James 2:18 ESV / 236 helpful votes​

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Galatians 6:9 ESV / 210 helpful votes​

And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

​

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