Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

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amigo de christo

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God the FATHER is only to referred to as a 'HE', denoting Male Figurehead, thus HE is called FATHER
The LORD Jesus Christ is only referred to as a 'HE' again denoting Male Figurehead, thus HE is called the only Begotten SON of the FATHER
The HOLY SPIRIT is only referred to as a 'HE' again denoting Male Figurehead, thus the Spirit of Truth is called 'HE'

When Paul wrote: "neither male nor female", Paul is speaking of our New Birth in/of the SPIRIT = our spirits were Born-Anew

When Paul wrote of the Body of Christ he spoke of the Church being "Her" and described the Church as a "Bride" and as a "Wife".

The LORD Jesus Christ calls His Church = His WIFE in Revelation chapter 19 and again in chapter 22
And who is a liar , b ut he who d enies that JESUS IS THE VERY CHRIST MESSIAH SON OF GOD .
HE is anti christ .
Again its not too hard to see who and what is behind this ecumeincal intefaith for world peace n safety .
THAT WHICH BE OF ANTI CHRIST of course , THE MYSTERY of INQUITY of course .
But many in the false religoins , and even worse many within even christendom now run
to this ONE LIE by which IT SHALL UNITE ALL THE FALSE RELIGOINS WHO ALREADY LOVED A LIE
and the decieved in chrsitendom that too love a lie and reject the TRUE JESUS and followed some other jesus created of men .
IT BE A TOTAL DELUSION david . A GREAT and MIGHTY HOUR of all out reprobation has been poured
upon a world , upon even much of christendom .
FOR when HE called they did not answer but remain in their lie and WHEN HE SENT
his own sheep TO EVEN WARN the churches , They cast them OUT along with HIS WORDS as hate speech .
The path this world is now on , IS THE FINAL JUDG MENT OF A GREAT DELUSION
sent unto all who rejected the love of the truth and rather had pleasure in unrighteious and held the TRUTH as a lie .
And its gonna take everyone not in the lambs b ook of life right to THAT ONE LIE THAT SHALL SURELY UNIFY .
But it will be unto their own destruction . SO the time is as it has always been
TIME TO POINT TO JESUS , TIME to count that cost , and time to be prepared to lose all FOR HIS NAME SAKE .
some will hear b ut most will reject and many will betray us unto authorites . ITS COMING david
THE GREATEST HOUR of GREAT TRIBULATION is coming and our betrayer and betrayal is at the door .
FEAR IT NOT . fear not he who does not even have power over his own life
FEAR RATHER HE WHO G IVETH LIFE to all and shall surely POUR out HIS WRATH upon ALL WHO DENIED HIS HOLY SON .
 
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amigo de christo

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God the FATHER is only to referred to as a 'HE', denoting Male Figurehead, thus HE is called FATHER
The LORD Jesus Christ is only referred to as a 'HE' again denoting Male Figurehead, thus HE is called the only Begotten SON of the FATHER
The HOLY SPIRIT is only referred to as a 'HE' again denoting Male Figurehead, thus the Spirit of Truth is called 'HE'

When Paul wrote: "neither male nor female", Paul is speaking of our New Birth in/of the SPIRIT = our spirits were Born-Anew

When Paul wrote of the Body of Christ he spoke of the Church being "Her" and described the Church as a "Bride" and as a "Wife".

The LORD Jesus Christ calls His Church = His WIFE in Revelation chapter 19 and again in chapter 22
There once dwelt a king named ahab .
And how he loved to hear f rom his own false prophets
but alas there was a true prophet of GOD
but HOW he hated that one . AND HE told the king of jerusalem so .
THEY WILL NOT love the true ones david . THEY will cling to the messages of the false
and will not know , nor discern , nor is it in them to do so ,
that t hese false propehts who cry THIS IS THE WAY TO PEACE , THIS interfaith is the way to peace
ARE UNDER A LYING SPIRIT and it has been sent to DECIEVE THE PROPHETS who lie and all who sit under them
TO THE DAY OF THEIR OWN SUDDEN DESTRUCTION .
just as they did to king ahab . GO UP , YE SHALL HAVE the VICTORY
and the true prophet had told him , I SAW ISRAEL scattered as one having no shepard .
And was smite across the face by a false one who said FROM WHENCE did the SPIRIT go from ME TO YOU .
AND so i shall answer as did micah . ON THE DAY OF YOUR SUDDEN DESRUCTION YE SHALL KNOW .
YE SHALL KNOW that ecumiencal intefaith was of anti christ and they ye were decieved and had loved a lie .
THOUGH i surely hope many repent before they find out too late .
 

Spiritual Israelite

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`Neither male nor female in Christ Jesus, you say correctly as God`s word says. Then you go on to say we are females. Contradiction there.
I did not say we are females. I mean, you are a female (haha), but I'm not saying we in the church are all females. Please do not try to speak for me in terms of what I believe. You have shown many times in the past that you do not understand some of the things that I believe. So, again, please do not ever attempt to speak for me because it will often result in you misrepresenting what I believe.

1. 2 Cor. 11: 2 is Paul talking to his disciples desiring them to be pure and that he will present them to the Lord. Paul does not present us to the Lord. The Lord will present us to Himself. (Jude 24)
Are you even trying to see my point? What I was showing with that verse is that believers are portrayed in scripture as spiritual virgins, so that should be taken into consideration when reading Revelation 14.

2. Eph. 5: 25 is an exhortation to husbands to love their wives as their own bodies as Christ loves His BODY. There is no `her` but an `it` referring to the BODY. Paul has spent 4 chapters detailing the Body of Christ.
We are the bride of Christ. Not in a physical way. That's where you're getting thrown off. Only in a spiritual way. When Paul said there is neither male nor female in Christ that means one's gender has nothing to do with whether someone is in Christ or not. That is not related at all to our relationship with Christ in terms of Him being our husband and us being His bride. He is not a literal husband and we are not a literal bride. We will not be literally married to Him. This is all spiritual and should not be thought of in a physical sense.

We are Christ`s Body.(Eph. 1: 22 & 23) (no male or female)
We are the New Man. (Eph. 2: 15)
We are to put on the new man. (Eph. 4: 24)
We will come to a perfect man. (Eph. 4: 13)
We are the new man and we are the bride of Christ. We are neither a literal man (you are not a man literally) nor are we a literal female bride. You are taking these things too literally and missing the spiritual meaning of these things.

Rev. 19: 7 is referring to Israel the wife. (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)
Not national Israel. Spiritual Israel. We, the church, the Israel of God who have been made a new creation in Christ (Galatians 6:15-16) are the bride/wife of Christ. We, the church, are the ones who have a personal, spiritual relationship with Christ. This is a FACT taught in scripture REPEATEDLY. It's not based on ethnicity or nationality which is why Paul said "there is neither Jew nor Gentile" in Christ. By seeing the physical nation of Israel as being Christ's wife/bride you are making it so that being in Christ depends on one's ethnicity or nationality, which blatantly contradicts Galatians 3:28 and several other verses that say the same thing as that verse.
 

amigo de christo

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The word` her` is not there. The word is `it,` referring to the Body the New Man.

Only Israel is called the `wife,` and God divorced her because of idolatry, nd then will `marry` connect with her again.

The Body of Christ is ONLY referred to as the NEW MAN.

The city is described AS a bride because of the glory of God. But it is NOT a bride.
let go , let go my child of that which is earthen before it be your end and destruction .
CLING to the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM to the TRUE ISRAEL OF GOD
before that great and mighty day of THE LORD do come .
That which is of the flesh is flesh
but that which is of the SPIRIT IS INDEED SPIRIT .
You must flee all hope in the earthen , for the earthen is still but in bondage
as is the rest of this entire worlds nations . Let go of dispensations , let go of the doctrines of men
and let us learn the holy sacred scriptures again , before forever it be too late .
 

David in NJ

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The word` her` is not there. The word is `it,` referring to the Body the New Man.

Only Israel is called the `wife,` and God divorced her because of idolatry, nd then will `marry` connect with her again.

The Body of Christ is ONLY referred to as the NEW MAN.

The city is described AS a bride because of the glory of God. But it is NOT a bride.
Keep Reading and Praying for understanding as you read.

There is a Scriptural/Truth reason why Jew & Gentile in Christ are called "One New Man"

Remember what JESUS Says: "Seek and you will find"
 
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amigo de christo

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I did not say we are females. I mean, you are a female (haha), but I'm not saying we in the church are all females. Please do not try to speak for me in terms of what I believe. You have shown many times in the past that you do not understand some of the things that I believe. So, again, please do not ever attempt to speak for me because it will often result in you misrepresenting what I believe.


Are you even trying to see my point? What I was showing with that verse is that believers are portrayed in scripture as spiritual virgins, so that should be taken into consideration when reading Revelation 14.


We are the bride of Christ. Not in a physical way. That's where you're getting thrown off. Only in a spiritual way. When Paul said there is neither male nor female in Christ that means one's gender has nothing to do with whether someone is in Christ or not. That is not related at all to our relationship with Christ in terms of Him being our husband and us being His bride. He is not a literal husband and we are not a literal bride. We will not be literally married to Him. This is all spiritual and should not be thought of in a physical sense.


We are the new man and we are the bride of Christ. We are neither a literal man (you are not a man literally) nor are we a literal female bride. You are taking these things too literally and missing the spiritual meaning of these things.


Not national Israel. Spiritual Israel. We, the church, the Israel of God who have been made a new creation in Christ (Galatians 6:15-16) are the bride/wife of Christ. We, the church, are the ones who have a personal, spiritual relationship with Christ. This is a FACT taught in scripture REPEATEDLY. It's not based on ethnicity or nationality which is why Paul said "there is neither Jew nor Gentile" in Christ. By seeing the physical nation of Israel as being Christ's wife/bride you are making it so that being in Christ depends on one's ethnicity or nationality, which blatantly contradicts Galatians 3:28 and several other verses that say the same thing as that verse.
She must let go the earthern and cling to the heavenly .
That which is of the flesh is flesh
but that which is of the spirit IS SPIRIT .
ALL nations to include the nation of israel on earth ARE ALL IN BONDAGE and in darkness .
IF they will not hear they will not recieve . We are runn ing out of time my f riend .
The greatest hour of the peak of all delusion and darkness
will take them all to a lie to unify . And though it c ries t his is the way to peace , this is the way to at tain world peace n safety
HEED IT NOT . IT HAS DENIED THE VERY PEACE PLAN OF GOD
which is and was TO BLEIEVE ON JESUS so as one can be reconciled to and have peace with GOD .
IT HAS DENIED THE VERY SON , THE VERY CHRIST OF GOD , HIS VERY WORD .
IT be of anti christ and is the mystery of inquity and its intefaith is A LIE .
A LIE to unify and a lie to lead them all to be as one man under one god THEY BLEIVE WILL BE AND IS GOD .
BUT IT be only this one , AND BY PEACE SHALL HE DESTROY MANY .
The delusion grows faster by the day and by the hour . the god of inclusivity IS SATAN
and intefaith is of anti christ and soon all will heed the voice of a god who cliamed to be GOD but was NOT GOD .
HE is a liar and the father of lies . And our betrayer and betrayal will come claoked
as though a kiss of inclusive love from inclusive lips , OUR OWN betrayer came from within CHRISTENDOM
and as judas betrayed CHRIST with a kiss
THEY WILL TRULY believe they follow GOD and HIS LOVE and have kissed the calf and not the SON .
OUR betrayal will come from those who truly bleieve they LOVE GOD and humanity
BUT IT was the wrong god which only allowed their sins and even unbelief TO REMAIN UPON THEM ALL .
IT is a very subtile deciever . BUT THE SHEEP dont bite its false love bait . FOR JESUS has the SHEEP
and it is the sheep WHO HAVE THE LOVE OF GOD . while they have only the love of the world , THEY THINK IS THE LOVE OF GOD .
 

David in NJ

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There once dwelt a king named ahab .
And how he loved to hear f rom his own false prophets
but alas there was a true prophet of GOD
but HOW he hated that one . AND HE told the king of jerusalem so .
THEY WILL NOT love the true ones david . THEY will cling to the messages of the false
and will not know , nor discern , nor is it in them to do so ,
that t hese false propehts who cry THIS IS THE WAY TO PEACE , THIS interfaith is the way to peace
ARE UNDER A LYING SPIRIT and it has been sent to DECIEVE THE PROPHETS who lie and all who sit under them
TO THE DAY OF THEIR OWN SUDDEN DESTRUCTION .
just as they did to king ahab . GO UP , YE SHALL HAVE the VICTORY
and the true prophet had told him , I SAW ISRAEL scattered as one having no shepard .
And was smite across the face by a false one who said FROM WHENCE did the SPIRIT go from ME TO YOU .
AND so i shall answer as did micah . ON THE DAY OF YOUR SUDDEN DESRUCTION YE SHALL KNOW .
YE SHALL KNOW that ecumiencal intefaith was of anti christ and they ye were decieved and had loved a lie .
THOUGH i surely hope many repent before they find out too late .
When we believe every word = Matt 4:4 = we feast on Truth and our minds are set free and our spirit rejoices within us.

We begin to SEE by the Spirit and not by the outward = 1 Samuel 16:7

But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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The word` her` is not there. The word is `it,` referring to the Body the New Man.
So, you correctly see the new man (body of Christ/church) as an "it", so why do you insist that the bride of Christ has to be considered female rather than as an "it"?

Only Israel is called the `wife,` and God divorced her because of idolatry, nd then will `marry` connect with her again.
Israel includes males, right? So, why do you dismiss the idea of the church being the wife/bride of Christ just because males are in the church?

The Body of Christ is ONLY referred to as the NEW MAN.
And as the bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:22-32, Revelation 19:7-8).

The city is described AS a bride because of the glory of God. But it is NOT a bride.
That's simply not true.

Revelation 21:9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

John was told He would be shown "the bride, the Lamb's wife" and then He was shown the holy Jerusalem (new Jerusalem). That means the bride/wife of Christ is the holy new Jerusalem. Which is the heavenly Jerusalem that other scripture says we are part of.

Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

Galatians 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
 

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I did not say we are females. I mean, you are a female (haha), but I'm not saying we in the church are all females. Please do not try to speak for me in terms of what I believe. You have shown many times in the past that you do not understand some of the things that I believe. So, again, please do not ever attempt to speak for me because it will often result in you misrepresenting what I believe.


Are you even trying to see my point? What I was showing with that verse is that believers are portrayed in scripture as spiritual virgins, so that should be taken into consideration when reading Revelation 14.


We are the bride of Christ. Not in a physical way. That's where you're getting thrown off. Only in a spiritual way. When Paul said there is neither male nor female in Christ that means one's gender has nothing to do with whether someone is in Christ or not. That is not related at all to our relationship with Christ in terms of Him being our husband and us being His bride. He is not a literal husband and we are not a literal bride. We will not be literally married to Him. This is all spiritual and should not be thought of in a physical sense.


We are the new man and we are the bride of Christ. We are neither a literal man (you are not a man literally) nor are we a literal female bride. You are taking these things too literally and missing the spiritual meaning of these things.


Not national Israel. Spiritual Israel. We, the church, the Israel of God who have been made a new creation in Christ (Galatians 6:15-16) are the bride/wife of Christ. We, the church, are the ones who have a personal, spiritual relationship with Christ. This is a FACT taught in scripture REPEATEDLY. It's not based on ethnicity or nationality which is why Paul said "there is neither Jew nor Gentile" in Christ. By seeing the physical nation of Israel as being Christ's wife/bride you are making it so that being in Christ depends on one's ethnicity or nationality, which blatantly contradicts Galatians 3:28 and several other verses that say the same thing as that verse.
The bride of Christ error has come from the Catholic Church which believes that the Church has replaced Israel. Protestants just continued with that false doctrine.

And speaking of doctrine the Apostle Paul lays out the New Man, (combining both genders) in Eph. 1 - 4 and then goes on to bring exhortations to wives, husbands, children, slaves etc. A doctrine is NOT built upon an example, an exhortation.

Note in Eph. 5: 30 `we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones.`
 

amigo de christo

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Keep Reading and Praying for understanding as you read.

There is a Scriptural/Truth reason why Jew & Gentile in Christ are called "One New Man"

Remember what JESUS Says: "Seek and you will find"
THEY WILL TRULY believe they follow GOD and HIS LOVE and have kissed the calf and not the SON .
OUR betrayal will come from those who truly bleieve they LOVE GOD and humanity
BUT IT was the wrong god which only allowed their sins and even unbelief TO REMAIN UPON THEM ALL .
IT is a very subtile deciever . BUT THE SHEEP dont bite its false love bait . FOR JESUS has the SHEEP
and it is the sheep WHO HAVE THE LOVE OF GOD . while they have only the love of the world , THEY THINK IS THE LOVE OF GOD .
 

David in NJ

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The bride of Christ error has come from the Catholic Church which believes that the Church has replaced Israel. Protestants just continued with that false doctrine.

And speaking of doctrine the Apostle Paul lays out the New Man, (combining both genders) in Eph. 1 - 4 and then goes on to bring exhortations to wives, husbands, children, slaves etc. A doctrine is NOT built upon an example, an exhortation.

Note in Eph. 5: 30 `we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones.`
The terminology of "the Bride of Christ" came out of the Mouth of God

The actual "Bride of Christ" came out of the WORD that was God and became flesh.
 

amigo de christo

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When we believe every word = Matt 4:4 = we feast on Truth and our minds are set free and our spirit rejoices within us.

We begin to SEE by the Spirit and not by the outward = 1 Samuel 16:7

But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”
YES THE LORD surely does look upon the heart and not as man who looketh only upon the outward appearance .
And now a word .
I WANT to remind every man woman and child
THAT when one g oes to SEEK the GREAT HIGH PREIST OF GOD
to remember that GOD looketh upon the inside .
And in the law which would point to CHRIST
it was said , no man with a mole , a spot , a blemish , a drawf could be the High priest and approach the tabernacle .
And so they offered up blood for the sins of the peoples .
BUT many years later , both who and what even the LAW prophets and moses , even abraham had seen
HE WOULD come .
AND HE WAS WITHOUT SPOT OR BLEMISH ON THE INSIDE . something no mere man could ever claim
BUT GOD SURE CAN . JESUS the CHRIST , was not just some prophet
Was not just a good man
WHY my dear friends , THE WORD was not just WITH GOD in the BEGINNING but was GOD .
HE WHO DISHONORS THE SON DOES DISHONOR THE FATHER . and that BE A FACT .
 

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So, you correctly see the new man (body of Christ/church) as an "it", so why do you insist that the bride of Christ has to be considered female rather than as an "it"?


Israel includes males, right? So, why do you dismiss the idea of the church being the wife/bride of Christ just because males are in the church?


And as the bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:22-32, Revelation 19:7-8).


That's simply not true.

Revelation 21:9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

John was told He would be shown "the bride, the Lamb's wife" and then He was shown the holy Jerusalem (new Jerusalem). That means the bride/wife of Christ is the holy new Jerusalem.
A bride is female.

We, the BODY, the New Man, are neither male nor female, but have both characteristics, but not the sexual parts which are only for earth.

You keep referring to an exhortation as the basis of your doctrine.

First mention - `Then I. ohn, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared AS a bride adorned for her husband.....having the glory of God. `(Rev. 21: 2 & 11)

Only the Old Testament Saints were promised the city. (Heb. 11: 16 `But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for THEM.`
 

amigo de christo

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The terminology of "the Bride of Christ" came out of the Mouth of God

The actual "Bride of Christ" came out of the WORD that was God and became flesh.
And that which is b orn of flesh is flesh
but that which is b orn of Spirit IS SPIRIT .
WHEN JESUS IS DENIED , GOD HAS BEEN DENIED .
there is nothing in or of the flesh that can save a man .
YE MUST be b orn again . You are correct my friend . And as adam lay upon his side
and from him was b rought forth woman
SO CHRIST TOO , and from him came forth CHURCH , the woman .
I DO see a connection in genesis . a pattern that later would be completed by THE SON .
MY FATHER WORKS and I WORK TOO , i have come to FINISH MY FATHERS WORKS .
 

Spiritual Israelite

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The bride of Christ error has come from the Catholic Church
Nonsense. Is there some reason why you didn't bother specifically addressing even one thing I said? I specifically address every point you make. You specifically address none of mine. Is that how you think discussions on this forum are supposed to be?

which believes that the Church has replaced Israel.
The Catholic Church is nothing, but the church/body of Christ, consisting of those who have been made a new creation in Christ, is referred to as the spiritual Israel of God in scripture. Which is a separate entity from the physical nation of Israel. It does not replace the physical nation.

Galatians 6:15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.

Protestants just continued with that false doctrine.
Nonsense. This is not how to discover the truth of scripture, Marilyn. What I believe has been believed by many Christians from the beginning of the New Testament church. Just read up on what the early church fathers wrote and you will see that for yourself.

And speaking of doctrine the Apostle Paul lays out the New Man, (combining both genders) in Eph. 1 - 4 and then goes on to bring exhortations to wives, husbands, children, slaves etc. A doctrine is NOT built upon an example, an exhortation.
You are sadly mistaken.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Note in Eph. 5: 30 `we are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones.`
What is your point here?
 

David in NJ

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And that which is b orn of flesh is flesh
but that which is b orn of Spirit IS SPIRIT .
WHEN JESUS IS DENIED , GOD HAS BEEN DENIED .
there is nothing in or of the flesh that can save a man .
YE MUST be b orn again . You are correct my friend . And as adam lay upon his side
and from him was b rought forth woman
SO CHRIST TOO , and from him came forth CHURCH , the woman .
I DO see a connection in genesis . a pattern that later would be completed by THE SON .
MY FATHER WORKS and I WORK TOO , i have come to FINISH MY FATHERS WORKS .
But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. - John 19:34
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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UH-OH

You would do well to rethink this
Agree completely. I just pointed this out to her, also. Huge mistake there. I hope she's humble enough to take that one back.

Looks like she forgot about this passage when she said that.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 

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The terminology of "the Bride of Christ" came out of the Mouth of God

The actual "Bride of Christ" came out of the WORD that was God and became flesh.
Yes, for Israel.

For your Maker is your HUSBAND, the Lord of hosts is His name; and your redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth. For the Lord has called you like a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, like a youthful wife when you were refused,` says your God.` (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

`I will betroth you to me for ever; Yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hos. 2: 19 & 20)
 
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amigo de christo

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But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. - John 19:34
For there are THREE IN HEAVEN , THE FATHER , THE SPIRIT , THE WORD as these are ONE
and there are three that bear witness on earth , THE SPIRIT , WATER and the BLOOD and these three agree IN ONE .