How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[faithhopecharity]

Eternal life in the Bible means that marvellous never-ending life that Jesus grants to all who believe in Him.

Eternal salvation, I would say, is closely linked to eternal life. Jesus saves sinners, and that salvation is eternal, as we are told in Hebrews:

(Heb 5:9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

It is those who have been saved by Jesus Christ that are given eternal life by Him.

Not "Faith Alone"!

Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 11:18 repentance unto life
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Rom 8:17 faith and suffering
2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
Col 1:24 sufferings
Philemon 1:5 love and faith
Phil 1:29 called to suffer not faith alone
Titus 2:2 faith, love, patience
James 2:24 faith & works
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 2:19 & rev 13:10 & Rev 14:12 commandments & patience
Three things are eternal! 1 cor 13:13

Faith, Hope, & Charity!

thks

 

[Wrangler]

did he create evil. Or did he create the possibility of evil by giving man free will?

I guess you don't want to read and understand Isaiah 45:7. What does it say? What does God's words say about this in this verse?

 

[faithhopecharity]

Eternal life in the Bible means that marvellous never-ending life that Jesus grants to all who believe in Him.

Eternal salvation, I would say, is closely linked to eternal life. Jesus saves sinners, and that salvation is eternal, as we are told in Hebrews:

(Heb 5:9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

It is those who have been saved by Jesus Christ that are given eternal life by Him.

The promise of salvation!

1 John 2:25
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

Grace is the life of God in us but we must persevere in this grace till death! Jn 15:4 Matt 10:22 rev 2:10

Sin causes separation from Christ and God. 1 cor 6:9 Gal 5:21

Repentance and confession restores is to God and His grace. Jn 20:23 1 Jn 1:9

the grace of justification now, with the promise of eternal salvation to those who are faithful!

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

thks

 

[bdavidc]

are christians required to practice the virtues of Jesus Christ or faith alone?

1 cor 13:13 three things are eternal faith, hope, & charity

mt 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

thks

That is a false choice. Christians are required to follow Christ, practice righteousness, walk in love, and obey His Word. No one here is denying that. Jesus said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” ~John 14:15. John also said, “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar” ~1 John 2:4.

But that is not the same question as how a sinner is justified before God. Scripture does not say we are justified by faith plus practicing the virtues of Christ. It says, “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” ~Romans 3:28. It also says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

First Corinthians 13:13 says, “And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.” Amen. Charity is essential in the Christian life. But Paul was not teaching there that charity is the ground of justification. The same Paul said, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us” ~Titus 3:5.

Matthew 11:29 also does not teach works-maintained justification. Jesus said, “Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me.” Yes, the believer follows Christ and learns of Him. But notice what He gives: “ye shall find rest unto your souls.” Rest is not earned by our performance. It is found in Him.

So yes, Christians must practice the virtues of Christ. But those virtues are the fruit of salvation, not the price paid to keep justification. “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works” ~Ephesians 2:8-9. Then verse 10 says we are “created in Christ Jesus unto good works.” The order matters. Good works follow salvation. They do not cause it, preserve it, or complete it.

Christ does not justify a man temporarily and then hand him the burden of staying justified by works. Scripture says, “Being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” ~Romans 5:1.

 

[Wrangler]

So who is really ignoring scripture my friend?

You are really ignoring Scripture, my friend. See post 328 on milk v meat and the many @faithhopecharity has posted. Do you believe Jesus died on the cross so we can sin with impunity?

 

[bdavidc]

perseverance not automatic: watch and pray not to enter into temptation. mt 26:41

depart from me cos you have not faith alone?

Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

suffer not faith alone

phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Lk 14:27
And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

rom 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


patience is a work but its everywhere in the new testament


Luke 21:19
In your patience possess ye your souls.

Luke 8:15
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Romans 5:3-5

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2 Thessalonians 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

2 Timothy 3:10
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

Titus 2:2
That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done they will of God, ye might receive the promise.

James 1:3
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

James 1:4
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

James 5:10
Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

2 Peter 1:6
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (rev 12:17)
thks

You are still confusing the fruit of salvation with the ground of justification. No one is denying that Christians watch, pray, suffer, endure, obey, bear fruit, and follow Christ. The issue is whether those things justify us before God or preserve our justification. Scripture says no.

Matthew 26:41 says, “Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” Amen. Christians must watch and pray. But that verse does not say justification is maintained by works. It warns believers against temptation because the flesh is weak. A command to pray is not proof that Christ’s blood is insufficient to save.

Your “depart from me” argument actually hurts your position. Jesus does not say, “Depart from me, ye who trusted in faith alone.” He says, “depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity” ~Luke 13:27. In Matthew 7:22-23, the people He rejects are not boasting in Christ’s finished work. They are boasting in what they did: “have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?” Jesus answers, “I never knew you.” Their works did not save them. Their many religious works did not make up for the fact that they were never known by Christ.

Philippians 1:29 says believers are appointed not only to believe on Christ, but also “to suffer for his sake.” Amen. Luke 14:27 says the disciple must bear his cross. Romans 8:17 says the children of God suffer with Christ. I believe all of that. But suffering for Christ is the path of discipleship, not the price of justification. Paul is the same apostle who said, “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” ~Romans 3:28.

You listed many verses on patience, but none of them say patience is the basis of justification. Patience is produced in believers through trials. Romans 5:3 says “tribulation worketh patience.” James 1:3 says “the trying of your faith worketh patience.” Colossians 1:11 says believers are “strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience.” That is God working in His people. It is not man maintaining justification by his own performance.

Hebrews 10:36 says, “For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.” Yes, believers endure. But the same chapter says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” ~Hebrews 10:14. One offering. Perfected for ever. That is the ground.

Revelation 14:12 says, “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.” Amen. Saints keep God’s commandments and hold the faith of Jesus. That describes the saints. It does not say their commandment keeping is what keeps them justified.

The Bible does not teach a dead faith that produces no obedience. But it also does not teach justification by faith plus obedience, faith plus suffering, faith plus patience, or faith plus cross-bearing. Scripture says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

The order matters. We are not saved by good works. We are saved unto good works. “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works” ~Ephesians 2:8-9. Then verse 10 says we are “created in Christ Jesus unto good works.” Good works follow the new birth. They do not purchase it, preserve it, or complete it.

So yes, Christians must persevere. But the true believer perseveres because God keeps His own. “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” ~1 Peter 1:5. “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” ~Philippians 1:6. The glory belongs to Christ, not to our patience, suffering, obedience, or works.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I guess you don't want to read and understand Isaiah 45:7. What does it say? What does God's words say about this in this verse?

I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’

Again

How did he create it. By giving us free will. or forcing us to do evil?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are really ignoring Scripture, my friend. See post 328 on milk v meat and the many @faithhopecharity has posted. Do you believe Jesus died on the cross so we can sin with impunity?

and?

Your trying to equate sanctification and christian growth (meat) to mile (the gospel)

come on man. you will have to do better than that (already responded to that post)

 

[faithhopecharity]

They're synonymous.

same term has different meaning!

"eternal life"

((eternal life refers to grace))

Jn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Jn 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Jn 2:25
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 Jn 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 Jn 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


((eternal life refers to eternal salvation))

mt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

mk 10:30
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.


((promise of eternal salvation))

mk 13:13
He who endures to the end shall be saved.

mt 10:22
He who endures to the end shall be saved.

mt 24:13
He who endures to the end shall be saved.

titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

James 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

1 Jn 2:25
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

rev 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.


((union))

Ps 23:4 Thou art with me...
Isa 53:3 by His stripes (wounds) we are healed.
Jn 1:16 life of grace
Jn 10:10 life of grace
Jn 14:6 life of grace
Jn 15:1-5 abide in me...

1 Jn 1:6-7

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


((refers to a state of grace))

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ
1 cor 13:2 grace
1 cor 15:1
2 cor 9:14


((grace))

grace is life of God that Christ shares with us!

2 pet 1:2-4

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 cor 13:1-2

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Hebrews 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.

rom 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Grace is Christ sharing His divine life with us!


((Abundance of grace))

Jn 10:10
rom 5:17
rom 1:7
1 cor 1:3
2 cor 1:2
gal 1:3
eph 1:2
phil 1:2
col 1:2
1 thes 1:1
2 thes 1:2
1 tim 1:2
1 tim 1:14
2 tim 1:2
titus 1:1
philemon 1:3
1 pet 1:2
2 pet 1:2
2 Jn 3


((grace bears fruit))
Lk 3:9
Jn 15:1-5
col 1:6


((Grow in grace))

2 pet 3:18 we must grow in grace

((can lose grace))

Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1-4
gal 5:19-21
gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
2 cor 4:7
1 tim 5:12
rev 21:8
rev 21:27
rom 8:1
1 cor 15:10 can have grace in vain
2 cor 4:7 treasure (grace) in earthen vessels


((grace questions))

can we have eternal salvation and eternal salvation more abundantly?

Jn 10:10

Can we have eternal salvation that leads to eternal salvation?

Mt 7:14

Why are we promised eternal salvation if we possess eternal salvation?

Mk 10:30

Why have hope of eternal salvation if we possess eternal salvation?

Matthew 25:46

Romans 2:7

titus 1:2

thks

 

[NayborBear]

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
thks

....Am wondering if the word "COVER" is synonymous, or has the same meaning as "FORGIVEN!"
I believe many (ahem...cough....hack...cough) "christians" believe and act like it means and does the same thing!
And even more than that? "ABSOLVES" these people in this "cover", (in their hearts, minds, spirits, and flesh.....IOW? like so much wool pulled over their eyes) from "Inheriting,"ALL the "Kingdom of God" and Kingdom of Light, but, the "Holy Priesthood" as well!
Is called; "Legalism" folks!
Matthew 23:4

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
(DONE in the "NAME of CHARITY!")

Prosperity Gospel TOO!
Ezekiel 13:
19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

So? THIS is coming! Yea! To "SOME?" Has ALREADY come unto!:
Isaiah 28:
13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

 

[Wrangler]

I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’

Again

How did he create it. By giving us free will. or forcing us to do evil?

Too smart by half brother. I'm sure you know other more literal translations render it I make peace and create evil. Biblegateway lists 13 translations that render it evil. When your defense is to use a synonym of what you're denying, that is revealing.

So, to answer your question, he creates evil. How he does it is secondary.

 

[Wrangler]

and?

Your trying to equate sanctification and christian growth (meat) to mile (the gospel)

Nope. Not one little bit. Faith is more than lip service.

Do you believe Jesus died on the cross so we can sin with impunity?

That you cannot answer this question is revealing.

 

[faithhopecharity]

You say this, yet almost every post is you posting things you must do to make yourself worthy so God will save you

sorry you misunderstood!

first before all else we received the grace of justification!

by that grace Christ vivifies us!

vivify:
quickend:
brought to life:

we are brought to life in grace to the life of Grace!

Jn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. (grace)

2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace issufficient for thee: for my strength ismade perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

thks

 

[Wrangler]

No one is denying that Christians ... obey,

You are denying these actions are a requirement. Same question to you; Do you believe Jesus died on the cross so we can sin with impunity?

 

[faithhopecharity]

Romans 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

all refer to natural works devoid of grace and apart from Christ!

what about supernatural works in Christ thru grace?

thks

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Too smart by half brother. I'm sure you know other more literal translations render it I make peace and create evil. Biblegateway lists 13 translations that render it evil. When your defense is to use a synonym of what you're denying, that is revealing.

So, to answer your question, he creates evil. How he does it is secondary.

lol. You still have not answered my question

when your ready.. then we can move on..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope. Not one little bit. Faith is more than lip service.

I never said otherwise. so let this strawman go by the wayside.

That you cannot answer this question is revealing.

I already answered it multiple times

1 John 1. He who sins has never met God. who who is born of God can not sin

The person who sins with impunity has never met God.. so why would I say they lost salvation? They have not. you can not lose what you never had.

It is revealing that you think God will fail his children..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

all refer to natural works devoid of grace and apart from Christ!

what about supernatural works in Christ thru grace?

thks

No

they all speak of works.

A work is something you do. you work to earn merit.

 

[Wrangler]

lol. You still have not answered my question

when your ready.. then we can move on..

Hey mocker, I did answer it.

So, to answer your question, he creates evil. How he does it is secondary.

I made dinner last night. How I made it is secondary. You're question invites a Strawman. If I didn't make dinner a certain way, it means somebody else gets the blame/credit for the dinner I made? LOL onto you.

 

[Wrangler]

I never said otherwise. so let this strawman go by the wayside.

You imply otherwise with every post. If it takes faith to be saved and faith requires action, not just lip service, what is your defense to the contradiction that no action is necessary.
P1. Faith requires action on our part.
P2. Salvation requires faith.
C. Salvation requires action on our part