Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Context is everything; isolation is nothing. And no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (2 Peter 1:20).
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Do you understand that 2 Peter 1:20 has nothing to do with people having their own private interpretations of prophecy in scripture, but rather has to do with the fact that Bible prophecy did not originate from the prophet's own mind but rather originates from God by way of the Holy Spirit?
2 Peter 1:20 (NIV) Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
Yep. I posted it (as did Peter) in opposition to the will of man, which seems to be running rampant in this thread.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Okay. The reason I asked was because I see people misinterpreting that verse a lot and I wasn't sure what you were saying in relation to that verse.
The Bible distinguishes between angels and men. They are different. They are distinct. Angels are heavenly beings that are sent on assignment from God to serve His purposes, and protect His servants. They operate in the invisible realm.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
We do not fight with physical visible human beings. We fight with demons in the invisible realm.
There seems to be a hierarchy outlined here in the demonic realm. Paul uses different descriptions to describe different entities. The kingdom of darkness seems to be organized into ranks and orders that are under the overall control of one wicked leader - Satan.
- Principalities [Gr. archē or chief or principal rulers] – those who hold the highest and loftiest position of rank and authority. They oversee the demonic assaults.
- Powers [Gr. exousia or authorities] – those who are under Satan’s delegated authority
- The rulers of the darkness of this world [Gr. kosmokratōr ho skotos toutou aiōn or rulers of the obscurity of this age]. Kosmokratōr is the joining of 2 Greek words kosmos and kratos. The word kosmos denotes order or arrangement, whereas the word kratos has to do with raw power.
- Spiritual wickedness in high places [Gr. pneumatikos ponēria en epouranios or vile or malevolent spirts on high].
1Co 4:9 for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
Since you understand that angels are MESSENGERS of God sent on assignment from God, why do you continue to argue that Satan is a fallen angel of God? This has to be one of the dumbest arguments you've made, and it isn't because dumb arguments from you are seldom!!!
The Bible distinguishes between angels and men. They are different. They are distinct. Angels are heavenly beings that are sent on assignment from God to serve His purposes, and protect His servants. They operate in the invisible realm.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
We do not fight with physical visible human beings. We fight with demons in the invisible realm.
There seems to be a hierarchy outlined here in the demonic realm. Paul uses different descriptions to describe different entities. The kingdom of darkness seems to be organized into ranks and orders that are under the overall control of one wicked leader - Satan.
- Principalities [Gr. archē or chief or principal rulers] – those who hold the highest and loftiest position of rank and authority. They oversee the demonic assaults.
- Powers [Gr. exousia or authorities] – those who are under Satan’s delegated authority
- The rulers of the darkness of this world [Gr. kosmokratōr ho skotos toutou aiōn or rulers of the obscurity of this age]. Kosmokratōr is the joining of 2 Greek words kosmos and kratos. The word kosmos denotes order or arrangement, whereas the word kratos has to do with raw power.
- Spiritual wickedness in high places [Gr. pneumatikos ponēria en epouranios or vile or malevolent spirts on high].
1Co 4:9 for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
No, what's dumb is your argument that Satan was created evil despite scripture saying that everything God created is very good (Genesis 1:31). And, look at what you're doing here. You whine like a little baby that others are not acting like Christians and being rude and so on and that is exactly what you do! How about not being a hypocrite? Can you do that?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You're absolutely right! What I said was belittling and ungodly and came from the mindset of returning evil for evil! Which is why I detest how both you and WPM always turn discussions into belittling and ungodly whenever someone disagrees with your understanding of doctrine. We are all called to give a reasonable, biblical explanation for what we believe the Bible is teaching us. But neither of you are satisfied with reasonable, biblical explanations that are not how you understand any verse or passage. When one has the audacity to disagree with either of you, both of you often mock, ridicule and belittle using snarky, smirking little comments like "HELLO" or "LOL" as though you both have perfect knowledge and every argument that disagrees with you must be PUT DOWN! And you call me a whining crybaby when the two of you repeatedly display this childish behavior that serves only to anger and upset fellow Christians.
I do believe this particular discussion has run its course long ago! So, I am wondering why one or the other of you two keeps bringing it up again and again. I believe it's because neither of you can let go of the FACT that Satan was not in the beginning and has never been an angel of God who fell when He disobeyed God. The Bible, not I tell us that Satan is the father of lies and a deceiver and murderer from creation! But the two of you just cannot let it go you will continue to defend your error perhaps to the end of the earth, because you are both too proud to admit when your doctrine errs.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
So, that's entirely your fault. Go back to post #1207 when WPM started posting here again after no one had posted in this forum for awhile. He simply was explaining how he understands things. He was not being evil at all. After you responded without actually addressing anything he said, he accused you of avoiding his arguments, which is clearly true. What is evil about that? You did not address what he said in those posts. You get all upset just because he pointed that out and you think he is evil for doing that? He wasn't calling what you were saying dumb or anything like that, but you are the one who started saying he was making dumb arguments and so on. You are the one who escalated things, not him.
Edit: I normally wouldn't ask anyone to do this, but I ask that you please read my entire post first before responding to anything I say. I have a reason for this.
That is what you do! You are so overly sensitive that any disagreement comes across to you as belittling and evil. It's ridiculous. Why do we need to walk on egg shells with you? Why can't you just discuss the scriptures without getting all bent out of shape any time someone disagrees with you? Debate is to be expected on this forum. Don't be so easily offended when people disagree with you.
That is exactly what he was doing and then you called his arguments dumb. You can disagree if you want, but his arguments are far from dumb.
What does that even mean? Can we say the same about you then just because you disagree? What is wrong with disagreement? Sure, it's not fun when someone disagrees with something you believe, but you need to be able to accept that without having a meltdown over it. That's how these forums are. We have to expect disagreements here. Especially in relation to eschatology when there are so many different interpretations of some passages and several different approaches that people take to interpreting the scriptures.
I only do that when people say things that are obviously false and not when someone makes a reasonable argument that I disagree with. But, I apologize that those types of things offend you and I am willing to try to cut down on doing anything like that when talking to you. Some people don't care about that and do it themselves as well and some don't. But, don't act like you are innocent in all this. You sometimes unnecessarily escalate things for no reason other than that you disagree with what someone said, like you did in this thread after WPM posted his understanding of things in his first post from yesterday after a period of inactivity in this thread.
I believe you do whine a lot for no good reason. You complain just because of disagreement sometimes. But, look, I'm not looking to purposely stir things up. I share my interpretations of things in detail and I get other people coming up at me with rude comments many times without them addressing my arguments at all. That can get pretty frustrating. All I want to do is discuss the scriptures and I'm fully aware that there will be disagreements and I can handle that.
No one is forcing you to take part in it at this point.
I was perfectly fine with letting this topic go. I have never been the one to bring it up again after a period of inactivity in the thread. I think WPM has done that because he feels that some of his arguments in this thread have gone unaddressed. So, he brings it back up when he has time to discuss it.
See what you do here? You call your OPINION a FACT. You unnecessarily stir the pot when you say things like this and you say things like this many times. I'm obviously confident about my opinions, but I never call them facts like you do.
From the creation of the earth, not from his own creation. He is the father of lies and a deceive in relation to humans, so he was a liar and murderer from the creation of humanity when he started lying to man not long after he was created.. That doesn't tell us how he became that way in the first place. So, that's something that could be discussed if only you didn't consider your opinion to be a fact.
Why admit something that isn't true? Should I say the same to you about what I believe is your error? Why are you so holier than thou all the time? Almost everything you say about us can be applied to yourself. It's hypocritical.
Look, rwb. You can try to blame us entirely for the tone these discussions take all you want, but you are not free from blame. Can you acknowledge that? That's your choice. But, as for me, I will admit that I do deserve some blame for that and it's truly not what I want. I apologize for my part in that. But, we are fallible humans, so we should be willing to forgive each other. I can tell you with God as my witness that all I really want to do is discuss the scriptures. Without claiming that my opinions are facts or anything like that. I'm willing to try to do that if you are open to it. No matter how much we might disagree with each other on something, we can still disagree respectfully. It's admittedly hard to do when you are fully convinced that the other person is wrong, but we still have to try to do that.
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