Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man

[amigo de christo]

In taking various posts out of context, without reading the entirety of the thread, one might claim there are replies that prove the denial of the existence of Satan and demonic spirits. However, reading the whole without a preconceived bias it is not true. It's never been a question of whether or not Satan and demonic spirits exist, but the question of HOW they exist within the hearts of man.

You mainly mean HOW satan influences the heart of man .
The entity itself is real , and oh yes many have their conversation with him through the lusts of the flesh .
The moment the fruit hit the lips of eve and of adam death came upon them and all ever since born of woman .
RWB, there is only ONE who can free mankind of this death which leads only to the second death ,
HIS NAME BE JESUS CHRIST and for to be saved YE MUST BELIEVE on HIM .
You might be wondering why on earth ol amigo just keeps pointing all back to the basic gospel again .
And the answer to that question is
MANY have and are falling in love with a lie . A LIE claoked as if it be love even the LOVE OF GOD
but IS A LIE .
THINK ecumiencal inclusive interfaith and its inclusive love god which has influenced the minds and hearts
of many .
And the reason for the sounding out of this trumpet like warning is
SOON ALL not in the lambs book of life WILL have bought the lie of anti christ , of its peace
and of its love and of its plan for world peace n safety and will be utterly and upmost damned on the day OF CHRIST .
SO i have come to remind us all we had better get noses back into bibles
and be refreshed daily in such a book , to be in prayer and to never once be a co helper to that which be of
the serpent .

 

[amigo de christo]

What is your point? Can spirits exist without a physical host?

There are angels of God that are unseen spirit beings. And there are also unseen spirit beings called Satan, devils, demons who are adversaries of God and His Church.

Sure they can and do exist without a human host . they can also enter into a human host .
Even the very pigs , if allowed to testify and could speak , could have told one that .
AS JESUS even cast the legion OUT of a man and into the pigs . OH they exist all right .
Now to the trenches RWB and all .

 

[rwb]

Yes they can. They did before the fall and they can today. They are spirits. Angels have appeared unto men distinct to human bodies.

Job 4:15 Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:

The disciples knew and believed in the existence of spirits separate and distinct to man.

Mat 14:26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
Mat 14:27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.

How do you define 'spirit'?

It is possible for a spirit to manifest in physical form, but the spirit itself is unseen while working in and through its host.

When the disciples saw Christ walking on the water, they were frightened because they thought He was a ghost. The Greek word translated spirit is 'phántasma' at the very least they believed in ghosts. But, I don't really see the relevance? Because a true spirit cannot be seen.

Luke 24:39 (KJV) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

 

[rwb]

Sure they can and do exist without a human host . they can also enter into a human host .
Even the very pigs , if allowed to testify and could speak , could have told one that .
AS JESUS even cast the legion OUT of a man and into the pigs . OH they exist all right .
Now to the trenches RWB and all .

Instead of asking if spirits can exist without a host, I should have asked if spirits can work to accomplish specific purposes outside a physical host? My point is not to deny the existence of spirit beings, but rather my purpose in this thread was to show that Satan is NOT and never has been an angel spirit of God who became evil through disobedience. Since the OP, like so many other Christians believe that Satan is a fallen angel of God, the argument continues on ad nauseum because he cannot disprove how the Bible says that Satan is a liar and murderer from the beginning of creation, and this is proven through the temptation and fall of Eve. And the Bible also tells us that God sent His angels who are spirits to minister to heirs of salvation. I think none would credit Satan with being a good spirit minister for God.

 

[WPM]

How do you define 'spirit'?

It is possible for a spirit to manifest in physical form, but the spirit itself is unseen while working in and through its host.

When the disciples saw Christ walking on the water, they were frightened because they thought He was a ghost. The Greek word translated spirit is 'phántasma' at the very least they believed in ghosts. But, I don't really see the relevance? Because a true spirit cannot be seen.

Luke 24:39 (KJV) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Yes, they can be seen. Job seen a spirit. You did not acknowledge that. The disciples thought they saw one. That is because they were familiar with their ability to reveal themselves. Many have. I have.

Just because they are not physical does not mean they cannot manifest visibly. They can.

 

[WPM]

Instead of asking if spirits can exist without a host, I should have asked if spirits can work to accomplish specific purposes outside a physical host? My point is not to deny the existence of spirit beings, but rather my purpose in this thread was to show that Satan is NOT and never has been an angel spirit of God who became evil through disobedience. Since the OP, like so many other Christians believe that Satan is a fallen angel of God, the argument continues on ad nauseum because he cannot disprove how the Bible says that Satan is a liar and murderer from the beginning of creation, and this is proven through the temptation and fall of Eve. And the Bible also tells us that God sent His angels who are spirits to minister to heirs of salvation. I think none would credit Satan with being a good spirit minister for God.

I rebutted your argument. You ducked around it as you have the Op. Please stop avoiding.

 

[amigo de christo]

Instead of asking if spirits can exist without a host, I should have asked if spirits can work to accomplish specific purposes outside a physical host? My point is not to deny the existence of spirit beings, but rather my purpose in this thread was to show that Satan is NOT and never has been an angel spirit of God who became evil through disobedience. Since the OP, like so many other Christians believe that Satan is a fallen angel of God, the argument continues on ad nauseum because he cannot disprove how the Bible says that Satan is a liar and murderer from the beginning of creation, and this is proven through the temptation and fall of Eve. And the Bible also tells us that God sent His angels who are spirits to minister to heirs of salvation. I think none would credit Satan with being a good spirit minister for God.

why my dear friend , dont ya know that is how they work .
OH yes there is a spiritual battle all right
Satan and his demons work through man
As GOD and HIS SPIRIT works through the beleiver .
EITHER ONE is of GOD or is of satan .
AND there is only ONE WAY for any to be freed from the power of satan
among whom we all once had our own conversation with in the lusts of our flesh .
HIS NAME BE JESUS . IT BE JESUS the ChRIST of GOD and one must absolutely BELEIVE ON HIM .
but i would have thought folks would know
THAT IS HOW it all works . THE dark spirits verses the Sheep who have THE SPIRIT .
Satan works THROUGH MEN
AS GOD works through THE BELIEVER IN JESUS . oh yes . that is how it works my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

Instead of asking if spirits can exist without a host, I should have asked if spirits can work to accomplish specific purposes outside a physical host? My point is not to deny the existence of spirit beings, but rather my purpose in this thread was to show that Satan is NOT and never has been an angel spirit of God who became evil through disobedience. Since the OP, like so many other Christians believe that Satan is a fallen angel of God, the argument continues on ad nauseum because he cannot disprove how the Bible says that Satan is a liar and murderer from the beginning of creation, and this is proven through the temptation and fall of Eve. And the Bible also tells us that God sent His angels who are spirits to minister to heirs of salvation. I think none would credit Satan with being a good spirit minister for God.

they work through man . they influence man .
WHO ya think persecutes the church . SATAN d oes , but how so , t hrough unbelievers , through men .

 

[rwb]

why my dear friend , dont ya know that is how they work .
OH yes there is a spiritual battle all right
Satan and his demons work through man
As GOD and HIS SPIRIT works through the beleiver .
EITHER ONE is of GOD or is of satan .
AND there is only ONE WAY for any to be freed from the power of satan
among whom we all once had our own conversation with in the lusts of our flesh .
HIS NAME BE JESUS . IT BE JESUS the ChRIST of GOD and one must absolutely BELEIVE ON HIM .
but i would have thought folks would know
THAT IS HOW it all works . THE dark spirits verses the Sheep who have THE SPIRIT .
Satan works THROUGH MEN
AS GOD works through THE BELIEVER IN JESUS . oh yes . that is how it works my friend .

Amen my friend!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If TS didn't believe in the existence of Satan and demonic spiritual beings, he wouldn't say they exist through human hosts?

He does not say that they are separate beings from human beings. Just ask him. Are you afraid to find out what he really believes? He's made it clear in his posts that he does not believe that Satan and demons are real spiritual beings, but represent the spirit of man or mankind.

Like I, TS doesn't believe some angels of God were good and became evil beings through disobedience and became demons/devils of Satan.

He does not believe that spirit beings called angels who are separate beings from humans exist at all. And he also doesn't believe that a spirit being named Satan nor spirit beings called demons who are separate beings from humans exist. Just ask him. He has indicated as such on this forum many times.

Yes, the spirit within FALLEN mankind is of Satan,

He doesn't say the spirit within fallen mankind is OF Satan, he says that the spirit of fallen mankind IS Satan.

man became the same spirit as Satan through the fall,

What does this even mean? Statements like this make it seem like you don't believe that Satan is a separate being from human beings. You seem to contradict yourself a lot.

when they disobeyed God and listened to the voice of evil.

You mean they have the same rebellious attitude toward God as Satan then, right? That does not mean they "became the same spirit as Satan".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are they real spiritual entities distinct from human beings?

TS doesn't believe so, as he has made very clear and @rwb denies that TS believes that. Even though he has indicated that many times. I don't think that @rwb himself believes that, though.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What is your point?

His question was as straightforward as can be, so why are you asking this? Can you just answer the question?

Can spirits exist without a physical host?

Of course they can. What hosts do angels have? They are separate beings from human beings and do not need human hosts. The same is true of Satan and devils/demons. We can see accounts in scripture of demons sometimes possessing people but then they are cast out. They don't just cease to exist when they are cast out. They go looking to see if they can possess someone else, but they can exist outside human beings in the meantime. There's no reason to think that every demon always is possessing someone.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes they can. They did before the fall and they can today. They are spirits. Angels have appeared unto men distinct to human bodies.

Job 4:15 Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:

The disciples knew and believed in the existence of spirits separate and distinct to man.

Mat 14:26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
Mat 14:27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.

Exactly. This is just astounding. How can any Christian not have any understanding of angels, Satan and demons? It's not like the Bible is silent on the topic.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Matthew 8:28-34

28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
33 And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils.
34 And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts.

If demons are not in fact real distinct demonic entities but just "evil" in man's "spirit" ("the spirit of disobedience") what are they doing in hogs? This is ridiculous.

This is such elementary stuff. I can't believe we even need to point out such obvious, simple things as this. Amazing.

 

[WPM]

they work through man . they influence man .
WHO ya think persecutes the church . SATAN d oes , but how so , t hrough unbelievers , through men .

He belives it is just the evil attitude in man. Satan is not distinct from man. He is not a separate being.

 

[WPM]

This is such elementary stuff. I can't believe we even need to point out such obvious, simple things as this. Amazing.

See how he ducks around all these posts yet insists on holding to his heresy?

 

[WPM]

TS doesn't believe so, as he has made very clear and @rwb denies that TS believes that. Even though he has indicated that many times. I don't think that @rwb himself believes that, though.

No. Rwb believes it. He just couches it in more esoteric language and refuses to clarify. I suspect he knows what he holds is wrong. That is why he is so uncomfortable explaining it and desperate to run from the discussion. His interaction with amigo de christo show that.

 

[rwb]

No. Rwb believes it. He just couches it in more esoteric language and refuses to clarify. I suspect he knows what he holds is wrong. That is why he is so uncomfortable explaining it and desperate to run from the discussion. His interaction with amigo de christo show that.

It seems the only one who appears uncomfortable in this thread is you WPM! Why don't you simply let go of the FACT that Satan is NOT a fallen angel of God and admit the Bible does not support your unbiblical point of view? Instead, you would rather accuse and belittle! Esoteric language??? Refusing to clarify??? Uncomfortable explaining??? Desperate to run??? I believe amigo is capable of discerning for himself according to what I've actually said. Because he isn't holding on to a grudge against a fellow Christian.

 

[WPM]

It seems the only one who appears uncomfortable in this thread is you WPM! Why don't you simply let go of the FACT that Satan is NOT a fallen angel of God and admit the Bible does not support your unbiblical point of view? Instead, you would rather accuse and belittle! Esoteric language??? Refusing to clarify??? Uncomfortable explaining??? Desperate to run??? I believe amigo is capable of discerning for himself according to what I've actually said. Because he isn't holding on to a grudge against a fellow Christian.

Address the arguments above that forbid your error.

 

[WPM]

It seems the only one who appears uncomfortable in this thread is you WPM! Why don't you simply let go of the FACT that Satan is NOT a fallen angel of God and admit the Bible does not support your unbiblical point of view? Instead, you would rather accuse and belittle! Esoteric language??? Refusing to clarify??? Uncomfortable explaining??? Desperate to run??? I believe amigo is capable of discerning for himself according to what I've actually said. Because he isn't holding on to a grudge against a fellow Christian.

Because you have no answers to the Scriptures presnted, you have resorted to playing the Premil victim card. I am not interested in that. Address the scriptural arguments above.