The Two Witnesses Came and Went Thousands of Years Ago

[Spiritual Israelite]

You just said "before they died"

LOL. Just shows that he's not thinking about all of this carefully at all.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes and God says Enoch did not die.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Did you just completely ignore everything he showed you?

Hebrews 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.

All these people included all the people previously mentioned people, which included Enoch. Verse 13 says they all died. Verse 5 does not say he never died. He was just taken away at that time so that he would not die at that time. He later died, as verse 13 indicates.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But those two scriptural concepts don't match what Rev 11 describes. It clearly shows two ppl being murdered, that resurrect 3.5 days later.

Yeah, and other parts of Revelation clearly show a literal seven headed, ten horned beast making war with the saints, too. Because that's what it says.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, Enoch was an exception and verse 5 proves that. The writer would not be able to say one thing then contradict himself a few verses later.

Goodness gracious. What a blatant case of twisting scripture just to support a false doctrine. Unbelievable. No, the author of Hebrews was not as stupid and disingenuous as you apparently think he was.

Hebrews 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.

He didn't say "most of these people". He said "all these people". And those people included Enoch. You are the one forcing scripture to contradict itself. Enoch could not have possibly gone to heaven because Jesus said this long after what happened to Enoch...

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[a]

Enoch could not have been taken to the third heaven/paradise where Jesus is. So, if he didn't die, then where did he go?

 

[William Barton]

You just said "before they died"

IMO:
Generally speaking, everyone dies. Enoch and Elijah will die, but it has been deferred to a future time, see Revelation 11:3-13.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

IMO:
Generally speaking, everyone dies. Enoch and Elijah will die, but it has been deferred to a future time, see Revelation 11:3-13.

While referring to Enoch and everyone else of faith previously mentioned the author of Hebrews said this.

Hebrews 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.

Can you address this?

 

[William Barton]

Yeah, and other parts of Revelation clearly show a literal seven headed, ten horned beast making war with the saints, too. Because that's what it says.

This is apocalyptic literature. It is coded so that "the wise will understand" (Daniel 12:10).

In the example you cite, IMO "seven heads" are seven nations that were to arise and provide order in the Middle East. These are:

1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Babylon
4. Persia
5. Greece
6. Rome
7. "Revived Roman empire," headed by Anti-Christ.

The Messiah came during the Roman empire, but the powers that be killed him. That was the worst thing they could have done (1Corinthians 2:8).

Anti-Christ is a future charismatic leader who will broker a peace agreement between Israel and the other Middle-Eastern countries. He will oversee rebuilding the Jewish temple.

The Jews will be ecstatic, until he then takes his seat in the temple, professing himself to be God (2Thessalonians 2:4). Oops, what a revolting development!

Anti-Christ will also be assisted by the "beast who ascends from the abyss" (Revelation 17:8). This beast is described in Revelation 13:1-9, apparently a fallen angel.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is apocalyptic literature. It is coded so that "the wise will understand" (Daniel 12:10).

In the example you cite, IMO "seven heads" are seven nations that were to arise and provide order in the Middle East. These are:

1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Babylon
4. Persia
5. Greece
6. Rome
7. "Revived Roman empire," headed by Anti-Christ.

The Messiah came during the Roman empire, but the powers that be killed him. That was the worst thing they could have done (1Corinthians 2:8).

Anti-Christ is a future charismatic leader who will broker a peace agreement between Israel and the other Middle-Eastern countries. He will oversee rebuilding the Jewish temple.

The Jews will be ecstatic, until he then takes his seat in the temple, professing himself to be God (2Thessalonians 2:4).
Oops, what a revolting development! :-(

Anti-Christ will also be assisted by the "beast who ascends from the abyss" (Revelation 17:8). This beast is described in Revelation 13:1-9.

I didn't ask for your interpretation of the beast, I was making a point of how silly you're being by acting like we should assume that the two witnesses are two individuals.