70th Week and Day of the Lord are separate events.

[covenantee]

I would not even rely on any theologian who lived 500 years ago.

But you would rely on modernist revisionist delusionist dispensationalism?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

But you would rely on modernist revisionist delusionist dispensationalism?

Wouldn't rely on anything anyone said on this forum. I don't rely on theologians, I listen and test what the say. Dispensationalists? Yes, listen and test.
Amillennialist, ignore almost always ... except this time!

 

[covenantee]

Wouldn't rely on anything anyone said on this forum. I don't rely on theologians, I listen and test what the say. Dispensationalists? Yes, listen and test.
Amillennialist, ignore almost always ... except this time!

When you listen and test what dispensationalists say about Daniel's 70th week, what is your result?

 

[Dave Watchman]

That sounds like you don't think God can see the future. There could not be prophetic visions at all if that were true. One of the main reasons why people believed in God is because He told them of future things that would happen along with displaying His power and glory. Might as well throw out sovereignty and eternal security and promises made ... because some things just don't enter into the mind of God that will just throw off His plan ad He'll have to go back to the drawing board and rewrite it ... billions of times?

God is big. Does One God know what the Other God is doing? The God of the Old Testament appeared to be surprised by the Old Time Jews when they offered their children as sacrifices to a pagan god:

God speaking to Jeremiah:

"They have built high places to Baal on which to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I never commanded or mentioned, nor did it even enter My mind. - Jeremiah 19:5​

The Old Time Jews here appeared to have caught the God of the Old Testament off guard because that God was Christ, the pre-incarnate Christ.

God of the Old Testament speaking to Isaiah:

"Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel​

and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:​

“I am the first and I am the last;​

besides me there is no god. - Isaiah 44:6​

Jesus in Revelation:

"When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. - Revelation 1:17-18​

Jesus said that He would not blot out our names from the Book of Life.

"And I will never blot out his name from the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels. - Revelation 3:5.​

But those names in that Book of Life were already written there by His Father when Jesus was given the Book with 7 seals. Only He could open it.

That is because Jesus, the pre-incarnate Christ, was the God of the Old Testament.

THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.

"For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.​

Newton considered himself a theologian as well as a scientist. But he was not a Trinitarian, which when I hear that, red flags go up. Not being baptized by the HOLY SPIRIT means he lacked discernment. Try to get into any theological discussion with a non-Trinitarian and you'll bump into many walls, a disconnect; for ti me theybhave a superficial understanding of scripture - no depth ... lean on their own understanding. I would not even rely on any theologian who lived 500 years ago. We know and understand so much more now than they did. Heck, the Protestant reformation was just getting started and Luther's 95 Thesis really only focused on the selling of indulgences.
We can and will disagree - that's okay. I wouldn't expect you to get nasty like some of these Amillennials.

I read people were mad about that. I don't know if he was or not. I don't care. It has no impact on my read of the materials here. I consider what everyone has to say. Newton is not my hero. I don't agree with everything he has said. And he was tricky. His note on 2060 was a fabrication to throw people off from date setting, to throw people off finding the real timing. Because I don't agree with all he has written, I hesitate posting his entire Daniel 9 commentary.

No. I never get nasty. Not with you. Not even with every foul bird and detestable beast. Not even the Amils and the rabid Preterists. I know what we are talking about here is radical. And the timing is saying it's happening now so it's extra spooky. ( I hope I can remember how to take those guys off of ignore, the forum looks funny with just you and me talking).

I have no axe to grind. I consider what everyone has to say, then I boil it down and make my own analysis. Newton's hypothesis on why Daniel's 7 and 62 week intervals were split up as two separate time frames, and not stated as 69 weeks, was ground breaking. I might call him many things, but "superficial", is not one of them.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

God is big. Does One God know what the Other God is doing? The God of the Old Testament appeared to be surprised by the Old Time Jews when they offered their children as sacrifices to a pagan god:

God speaking to Jeremiah:

"They have built high places to Baal on which to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I never commanded or mentioned, nor did it even enter My mind. - Jeremiah 19:5​

The Old Time Jews here appeared to have caught the God of the Old Testament off guard because that God was Christ, the pre-incarnate Christ.

God of the Old Testament speaking to Isaiah:

"Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel​

and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:​

“I am the first and I am the last;​

besides me there is no god. - Isaiah 44:6​

Jesus in Revelation:

"When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. - Revelation 1:17-18​

Jesus said that He would not blot out our names from the Book of Life.

"And I will never blot out his name from the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels. - Revelation 3:5.​

But those names in that Book of Life were already written there by His Father when Jesus was given the Book with 7 seals. Only He could open it.

That is because Jesus, the pre-incarnate Christ, was the God of the Old Testament.

THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.

"For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.​

I read people were mad about that. I don't know if he was or not. I don't care. It has no impact on my read of the materials here. I consider what everyone has to say. Newton is not my hero. I don't agree with everything he has said. And he was tricky. His note on 2060 was a fabrication to throw people off from date setting, to throw people off finding the real timing. Because I don't agree with all he has written, I hesitate posting his entire Daniel 9 commentary.

No. I never get nasty. Not with you. Not even with every foul bird and detestable beast. Not even the Amils and the rabid Preterists. I know what we are talking about here is radical. And the timing is saying it's happening now so it's extra spooky. ( I hope I can remember how to take those guys off of ignore, the forum looks funny with just you and me talking).

I have no axe to grind. I consider what everyone has to say, then I boil it down and make my own analysis. Newton's hypothesis on why Daniel's 7 and 62 week intervals were split up as two separate time frames, and not stated as 69 weeks, was ground breaking. I might call him many things, but "superficial", is not one of them.

"and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I did not command nor speak of, nor did it ever enter My mind;"
Jer.19:5
Sin is not part of His creative thoughts. He doesn't command people to sin. But he sees them He sees evil. He knows good and evil. He is holy ( separate) but allows it for a purpose. He is just stating that those acts do not originate from Him.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

When you listen and test what dispensationalists say about Daniel's 70th week, what is your result?

Okay, one more. I am not an adherant of their Gap theory. Daniel's 70 weeks is about Jesus 1st coming. He was cut off in the middle of the week, the week was not finished, didn't have to be, it's inclusive.

 

[covenantee]

Okay, one more. I am not an adherant of their Gap theory. Daniel's 70 weeks is about Jesus 1st coming. He was cut off in the middle of the week, the week was not finished, didn't have to be, it's inclusive.

Yes, and no theologian 500 years ago was an adherent of it either.

In fact, before Scofield dispensational futurism, no theologian had ever denied that Christ completely fulfilled Daniel 9:24 in the 70th week.

So you're in good company.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Yes, and no theologian 500 years ago was an adherent of it either.

In fact, before Scofield dispensational futurism, no theologian had ever denied that Christ completely fulfilled Daniel 9:24 in the 70th week.

So you're in good company.

In company of dead people? "I see dead people" ( Sixth Sense)! Just kidding. I know what you mean; but just because I am not an adherent to some of the Dispensational Futurism theology, it does not mean I fit in with Amillennialists. I am a Mid-Trib/ 7th Trumpet Rapturist. Though I am open to the idea that since they are heavenly trumpets blown in Revelation, it is possible that they are blown quickly before the effects are fully realized. We are shown what each seal, trumpet and bowl represents, that's how we understand it. But that doesn 't mean that these events aren't happening simultaneously and accumulating over time. It just means God shows us them one at a time. I describe Revelation as a transparent sphere of events on the outside and inside. As you turn the sphere, you see events overlapping. So I don't believe they are chronological (one event happening and being completely fulfilled then onto the next). Amils symbolize most of them and say they already happened - I don't. And so I do not keep company with them. I hear them shouting on the other side of this wall and sometimes I shout back - but there's a wall.

 

[covenantee]

In company of dead people? "I see dead people" ( Sixth Sense)! Just kidding. I know what you mean; but just because I am not an adherent to some of the Dispensational Futurism theology, it does not mean I fit in with Amillennialists. I am a Mid-Trib/ 7th Trumpet Rapturist. Though I am open to the idea that since they are heavenly trumpets blown in Revelation, it is possible that they are blown quickly before the effects are fully realized. We are shown what each seal, trumpet and bowl represents, that's how we understand it. But that doesn 't mean that these events aren't happening simultaneously and accumulating over time. It just means God shows us them one at a time. I describe Revelation as a transparent sphere of events on the outside and inside. As you turn the sphere, you see events overlapping. So I don't believe they are chronological (one event happening and being completely fulfilled then onto the next). Amils symbolize most of them and say they already happened - I don't. And so I do not keep company with them. I hear them shouting on the other side of this wall and sometimes I shout back - but there's a wall.

Do you think that their witness and testimony are dead?

Did Christ completely fulfill Daniel 9:24 at Calvary in the 70th week?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Do you think that their witness and testimony are dead?

Did Christ completely fulfill Daniel 9:24 at Calvary in the 70th week?

Answer in post # 195

 

[William Barton]

"Seventy sevens" (שבעים שבעים, Daniel 9:24) culminate in "everlasting righteousness" (Daniel 9:24).

Daniel 9:25 indicates that 69 sevens were completed when Jesus was "cut off" (Daniel 9:26, referring to the crucifixion of Jesus, who bore the penalty for our sins, Isaiah 53:11). Hence one "seven" remains.

The final "seven" is the tenure of the "antichrist, as noted in Daniel 9:24-27:
"He will confirm a covenant for *one seven.* "

 

[CTK]

"Seventy sevens" (שבעים שבעים, Daniel 9:24) culminate in "everlasting righteousness" (Daniel 9:24).

Daniel 9:25 indicates that 69 sevens were completed when Jesus was "cut off" (Daniel 9:26, referring to the crucifixion of Jesus, who bore the penalty for our sins, Isaiah 53:11). Hence one "seven" remains.

The final "seven" is the tenure of the "antichrist, as noted in Daniel 9:24-27:

"He will confirm a covenant for *one

25“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

I believe the prophecy tells us there will be 69 weeks AND THEN the Messiah will come. The Messiah is given the last 7 years of the 70 weeks of years prophecy to fulfill His mission that is found in 9:24.

He arrives exactly on the 1st day of the 70th week (again, AFTER THE END OF THE 69 weeks). He will begin His ministry and exactly 3.5 years later He will be crucified.

 

[Davy]

Christian Widener at endtimesberean.com has argued two 70 weeks exist for the two advents of Jesus, and the second declaration to rebuild Jerusalem occurred in 1537 by Sultan Sulieman which includes plaza and moat as written in Daniel. 483 years later, the pandemic began the second 70th Week period in 2020. Widener offers detailed explanations in videos and free pdf books. I strongly recommend you visit his site.

Also, Widener has recently determined the 70th Week of birth pangs and the Day of the Lord must be separate events after determining the Day of the Lord happens on a Jubilee year. He provides strong scriptural evidence, and when working out an end times system, many problems are solved. Please note my details below.
....

Easy to know that is pretty much false because it does not align with God's Word.

The so-called 'rapture' (a word that is not even in the New Testament Greek manuscripts), if you want to call it that, Lord Jesus showed will happen AFTER... the tribulation per His Olivet discourse, and aligns with the timing Apostle Paul gave in 1 Thessalonians 4.

Furthermore, your list has the 1335 days of Daniel 12 happening PRIOR to Jesus' 2nd coming, which is out of order. The 1335 days represents 1335 days after the "abomination of desolation". Jesus returns after 1260 days to build and cleanse the Jerusalem temple. Thus the days after that are all days when Jesus has already returned.

 

[covenantee]

"Seventy sevens" (שבעים שבעים, Daniel 9:24) culminate in "everlasting righteousness" (Daniel 9:24).

Daniel 9:25 indicates that 69 sevens were completed when Jesus was "cut off" (Daniel 9:26, referring to the crucifixion of Jesus, who bore the penalty for our sins, Isaiah 53:11). Hence one "seven" remains.

The final "seven" is the tenure of the "antichrist, as noted in Daniel 9:24-27:
"He will confirm a covenant for *one seven.* "

Daniel declares "Seventy weeks are determined..."

That means all seventy.

But If one seven remains, then it is decapitated, orphaned, and undetermined, and thus the entire seventy weeks are also undetermined.

But all seventy are determined, with the seventieth fulfilled by Christ during His first coming.

Jesus was cut off after 69 weeks (Daniel 9:26), in the midst of the seventieth week. (Daniel 9:27)

He confirmed His New Covenant with Israel for that week. (Matthew 26:28)

Christ is not antichrist.

Your claim fails.

 

[JimKnox]

Wiedner is just another date setter trying to claim he's got it all figured out, a bunch of Malarkey just like the rest of the date setters

We could add Matt Crane to the mix.
He has the tribulation lasting 10 years!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"Seventy sevens" (שבעים שבעים, Daniel 9:24) culminate in "everlasting righteousness" (Daniel 9:24).

Daniel 9:25 indicates that 69 sevens were completed when Jesus was "cut off" (Daniel 9:26, referring to the crucifixion of Jesus, who bore the penalty for our sins, Isaiah 53:11). Hence one "seven" remains.

The final "seven" is the tenure of the "antichrist, as noted in Daniel 9:24-27:
"He will confirm a covenant for *one seven.* "

How exactly do the 70 weeks "culminate in everlasting righteousness" in your view (which I assume is when Jesus returns) when you still have 1,000 years plus Satan's little season's worth of unrighteousness occurring after that? So much for "everlasting righteousness" being culminated when you think it will be. It's not talking about the literal bringing in of everlasting righteousness which will occur when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in, it's talking about Jesus making the way for everlasting righteousness by way of His death and resurrection.

 

[William Barton]

Daniel declares "Seventy weeks are determined..."

That means all seventy.

But If one seven remains, then it is decapitated, orphaned, and undetermined, and thus the entire seventy weeks are also undetermined.

But all seventy are determined, with the seventieth fulfilled by Christ during His first coming.

Jesus was cut off after 69 weeks (Daniel 9:26), in the midst of the seventieth week. (Daniel 9:27)

He confirmed His New Covenant with Israel for that week. (Matthew 26:28)

Christ is not antichrist.

Your claim fails.

covenantee noted:

<This means all seventy>

IMO:
1. "Weeks" is a misleading translation. The Hebrew word is שבוע = the number "seven."

2. "Seventy sevens" does not equate to seventy "continuous" sevens, that is an assumption. If I say I spent 10 days at work on a project, it is understood that I probably did not work Saturday and Sunday, those are usually vacation days.

 2. The abomination is Anti-Christ taking his seat in the temple as though he were God (2Thessalonians 2:4).