The taken and the left

[rebuilder 454]

Believe me, I would love to "be taken" in a pretrib. rapture. But even all the parables have the chaff being burned up and the wheat is left. Here is the wheat and tares. It is funny that you say that I am the one "hoping to connect." I think the writers of Scripture were the ones doing the connecting. I always choose God's interpretation as He is the actual Author. But let me give you some hope at the end. First read this from Matthew.

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”
In Revelation 2 and 3 of the seven letters to the seven churches that we see now looking back at church history, that these last four are church denominations or types. Thyatira is a perfect description of the RCC, Sardis is the Reformation who have such a good reputation, but Jesus says of them, "you have a name/reputation that you (your doctrines) are alive, but you are dead" in verse one. But then in verse four (200 years after the start of the Reformation period, comes those who fought Calvinism, one being John Wesley, and we see Jesus wanting holiness to represent his Bride, not "no punishment anymore for sin" called greasy grace, and a license for sin. Then comes Philadelphia. This is the type of Christian Jesus wants representing Him, and they don't twist scripture. So 'rebuilder' make sure you believe all of our New Covenant which is the ministry of the Spirit, and I mean ALL. Do not believe the doctrine of cessationism and cripple the power in the Church. Be a Philadelphian, because if there is a pre-trib. rapture, they are the only ones that will be gathered up and taken to heaven. Look at Revelation 12:17 and see that the other three types of Christians will be on earth and will be martyred for having believed false doctrines that are dead.

Again...
You tried to connect "taken" in Matthew 24 to the word "took" in the same chapter.
You failed to ACCURATELY do so.
You tried and failed to support your doctrine.
I irrefutable exposed what you were trying to do.
Then you erroneously reply that the word of God supports your erroneous argument.
It is akin to saying, "the Holy Spirit got it wrong".

Now you are saying there is a wicked person rapture before the trib.

You don't know the bible very well.
THE BURNING OF WICKED PEOPLE IS AFTER THE MIL..
It gets worse.
I found a verse about 10 years ago that says the wheat is gathered first.

You make 3 or more accusations against me out of thin air.
1..I am not by any means a cessationist. I am opposite that .
2,...some greasy grace dynamic, that I assume you see your opponent as aligning with the rapture as defective.
..FACEPALM.
3...YOU say I am "twisting scripture" which is 100% false.
In fact YOUR DOCTRINE, is one of the easiest to expose as false, and it spins most every verse.
Oh the irony.

Now ..what were you saying about your teaching about "took" being the same as "taken".
Show me where God's word backs that error up again.
Twisted it much.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Believe me, I would love to "be taken" in a pretrib. rapture. But even all the parables have the chaff being burned up and the wheat is left. Here is the wheat and tares. It is funny that you say that I am the one "hoping to connect." I think the writers of Scripture were the ones doing the connecting. I always choose God's interpretation as He is the actual Author. But let me give you some hope at the end. First read this from Matthew.

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”
In Revelation 2 and 3 of the seven letters to the seven churches that we see now looking back at church history, that these last four are church denominations or types. Thyatira is a perfect description of the RCC, Sardis is the Reformation who have such a good reputation, but Jesus says of them, "you have a name/reputation that you (your doctrines) are alive, but you are dead" in verse one. But then in verse four (200 years after the start of the Reformation period, comes those who fought Calvinism, one being John Wesley, and we see Jesus wanting holiness to represent his Bride, not "no punishment anymore for sin" called greasy grace, and a license for sin. Then comes Philadelphia. This is the type of Christian Jesus wants representing Him, and they don't twist scripture. So 'rebuilder' make sure you believe all of our New Covenant which is the ministry of the Spirit, and I mean ALL. Do not believe the doctrine of cessationism and cripple the power in the Church. Be a Philadelphian, because if there is a pre-trib. rapture, they are the only ones that will be gathered up and taken to heaven. Look at Revelation 12:17 and see that the other three types of Christians will be on earth and will be martyred for having believed false doctrines that are dead.

Let me further expose your error.
WHAT YOU NEVER KNEW;
MAT 13
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Huh????
See how far off you are???
Your workbook vs my bible.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Believe me, I would love to "be taken" in a pretrib. rapture. But even all the parables have the chaff being burned up and the wheat is left. Here is the wheat and tares. It is funny that you say that I am the one "hoping to connect." I think the writers of Scripture were the ones doing the connecting. I always choose God's interpretation as He is the actual Author. But let me give you some hope at the end. First read this from Matthew.

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”
In Revelation 2 and 3 of the seven letters to the seven churches that we see now looking back at church history, that these last four are church denominations or types. Thyatira is a perfect description of the RCC, Sardis is the Reformation who have such a good reputation, but Jesus says of them, "you have a name/reputation that you (your doctrines) are alive, but you are dead" in verse one. But then in verse four (200 years after the start of the Reformation period, comes those who fought Calvinism, one being John Wesley, and we see Jesus wanting holiness to represent his Bride, not "no punishment anymore for sin" called greasy grace, and a license for sin. Then comes Philadelphia. This is the type of Christian Jesus wants representing Him, and they don't twist scripture. So 'rebuilder' make sure you believe all of our New Covenant which is the ministry of the Spirit, and I mean ALL. Do not believe the doctrine of cessationism and cripple the power in the Church. Be a Philadelphian, because if there is a pre-trib. rapture, they are the only ones that will be gathered up and taken to heaven. Look at Revelation 12:17 and see that the other three types of Christians will be on earth and will be martyred for having believed false doctrines that are dead.

You need to be schooled also on Rev 12.
The woman is Israel, the man child is Jesus.
I have no idea how your workbook managed to muddy that up also.

Seriously consider starting over in your doctrine and stop inventing false dynamics.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Believe me, I would love to "be taken" in a pretrib. rapture. But even all the parables have the chaff being burned up and the wheat is left. Here is the wheat and tares. It is funny that you say that I am the one "hoping to connect." I think the writers of Scripture were the ones doing the connecting. I always choose God's interpretation as He is the actual Author. But let me give you some hope at the end. First read this from Matthew.

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”
In Revelation 2 and 3 of the seven letters to the seven churches that we see now looking back at church history, that these last four are church denominations or types. Thyatira is a perfect description of the RCC, Sardis is the Reformation who have such a good reputation, but Jesus says of them, "you have a name/reputation that you (your doctrines) are alive, but you are dead" in verse one. But then in verse four (200 years after the start of the Reformation period, comes those who fought Calvinism, one being John Wesley, and we see Jesus wanting holiness to represent his Bride, not "no punishment anymore for sin" called greasy grace, and a license for sin. Then comes Philadelphia. This is the type of Christian Jesus wants representing Him, and they don't twist scripture. So 'rebuilder' make sure you believe all of our New Covenant which is the ministry of the Spirit, and I mean ALL. Do not believe the doctrine of cessationism and cripple the power in the Church. Be a Philadelphian, because if there is a pre-trib. rapture, they are the only ones that will be gathered up and taken to heaven. Look at Revelation 12:17 and see that the other three types of Christians will be on earth and will be martyred for having believed false doctrines that are dead.

Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Uh huh.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Believe me, I would love to "be taken" in a pretrib. rapture. But even all the parables have the chaff being burned up and the wheat is left. Here is the wheat and tares. It is funny that you say that I am the one "hoping to connect." I think the writers of Scripture were the ones doing the connecting. I always choose God's interpretation as He is the actual Author. But let me give you some hope at the end. First read this from Matthew.

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”
In Revelation 2 and 3 of the seven letters to the seven churches that we see now looking back at church history, that these last four are church denominations or types. Thyatira is a perfect description of the RCC, Sardis is the Reformation who have such a good reputation, but Jesus says of them, "you have a name/reputation that you (your doctrines) are alive, but you are dead" in verse one. But then in verse four (200 years after the start of the Reformation period, comes those who fought Calvinism, one being John Wesley, and we see Jesus wanting holiness to represent his Bride, not "no punishment anymore for sin" called greasy grace, and a license for sin. Then comes Philadelphia. This is the type of Christian Jesus wants representing Him, and they don't twist scripture. So 'rebuilder' make sure you believe all of our New Covenant which is the ministry of the Spirit, and I mean ALL. Do not believe the doctrine of cessationism and cripple the power in the Church. Be a Philadelphian, because if there is a pre-trib. rapture, they are the only ones that will be gathered up and taken to heaven. Look at Revelation 12:17 and see that the other three types of Christians will be on earth and will be martyred for having believed false doctrines that are dead.

It gets even worse for the unbiblical postrib doctrine

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

.....wait for it....wait for it....watch what happens AFTER THE SHEEP ARE GATHERED.

41 THEN shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

That is matt 25
Every single postrib dynamic is unbiblical.
You guys have not gotten a single thing correct.

 

[Ziggy]

Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

In real time even

 

[Ziggy]

Why you think all the men were sleeping when the enemy crept in and sowed tares?
Why was they sleeping?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Why you think all the men were sleeping when the enemy crept in and sowed tares?
Why was they sleeping?

So the story could be told ?
Lol

 

[Ziggy]

So the story could be told ?
Lol

Could be.
I think they just got careless.
Too busy doing other things, they didn't see the enemy coming.
I love your avatar

Legolas was one of my favorites.
But Aragorn took the cake.
LOL

My user name I used to use was Stryder.
Hugs

 

[rebuilder 454]

Could be.
I think they just got careless.
Too busy doing other things, they didn't see the enemy coming.
I love your avatar

Legolas was one of my favorites.
But Aragorn took the cake.
LOL

My user name I used to use was Stryder.
Hugs

Yes indeed.
When we lower our guard that nasty devil sees the opening.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Again...
You tried to connect "taken" in Matthew 24 to the word "took" in the same chapter.
You failed to ACCURATELY do so.
You tried and failed to support your doctrine.
I irrefutable exposed what you were trying to do.
Then you erroneously reply that the word of God supports your erroneous argument.
It is akin to saying, "the Holy Spirit got it wrong".

Now you are saying there is a wicked person rapture before the trib.

You don't know the bible very well.
THE BURNING OF WICKED PEOPLE IS AFTER THE MIL..
It gets worse.
I found a verse about 10 years ago that says the wheat is gathered first.

You make 3 or more accusations against me out of thin air.
1..I am not by any means a cessationist. I am opposite that .
2,...some greasy grace dynamic, that I assume you see your opponent as aligning with the rapture as defective.
..FACEPALM.
3...YOU say I am "twisting scripture" which is 100% false.
In fact YOUR DOCTRINE, is one of the easiest to expose as false, and it spins most every verse.
Oh the irony.

Now ..what were you saying about your teaching about "took" being the same as "taken".
Show me where God's word backs that error up again.
Twisted it much.

Actusally Scripture explained Scripture and it scared you to death!

 

[rebuilder 454]

Actusally Scripture explained Scripture and it scared you to death!

How so???
I listed it exactly from the Greek.
Show me where the biblical is wrong about it.

No wonder you are diverting from the facts.
I am not the subject of those verses.

You are embarrassed I guess.

Teachers will make a fool out of you.
Check everything out for accuracy.
Not too late to start.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Actusally Scripture explained Scripture and it scared you to death!

...kinda like how you missed Jesus explaining the tares parable....that you were unaware of.

Jesus explained it, as i schooled you on.

Jesus had a different interpretation than what you were hoping for, with you trying to teach that spin you put on it.
Radically different.
Like I told you before, teachers will make a fool out of you.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

...kinda like how you missed Jesus explaining the tares parable....that you were unaware of.

Jesus explained it, as i schooled you on.

Jesus had a different interpretation than what you were hoping for, with you trying to teach that spin you put on it.
Radically different.
Like I told you before, teachers will make a fool out of you.

Yep! You're shaking in your boots. You're not prepared to loose your head and die for Christ. You'll probably take the mark for sure.

 

[PinSeeker]

Nowhere in the rapture or the second coming is the earth's population destroyed.

There is no "rapture," and nothing will be destroyed in the sense of wiping it from existence, but rather in the sense of complete defeat and ruination. But after the final judgment, there will be... a number of people... who... depart from this earth. And they will experience a death, and be destroyed, again, in the sense of complete defeat and ruination, and permanent removal from Jesus, Who Himself is life ~ the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6) ~ and the new heaven and new earth.

You are telling me there is a gathering (rapture) of wicked people before the tribulation/ flood ?

I don't think anyone is advocating any kind of rapture in the sense of gathering something (or some body of people) and taking them anywhere.

You are thinking there will be normal life and commerce, marriage and planning for the future DURING THE TRIB ?

Not "will be," but is. Jesus told us that in our lives there would be tribulation, you know. And so there is... this is reality.

Since there is neither a gathering of wicked before the trib...

There's a "gathering" of all people after the "trib," the thousand years of Revelation 20. Many will have been resurrected to eternal life, and the others to judgment. Then the final judgment will occur, executed by Jesus, of course, and then the wicked will... depart...

Show me where "destroyed them all"....(every human not in the ark), at the rapture.

Well there was no "rapture," but they all died... Every human in the ark was carried through the flood ~ saved from God's judgment ~ by the ark, which represents our Savior, the Lord Jesus, in the story of the flood, who carries us and delivers us..

. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and TOOK them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Before the trib, one taken, one left behind.
Show me any postrib teacher that can touch that dynamic.

Every single one of them points to a make believe pretrib gathering of wicked people. A wicked rapture.

No, there is a post-tribulation gathering of all people, but this is not a "rapture." See above.

They are pointing to a earth with half the population wicked, half born again.

"a earth"... <smile> Anyhoo...

We can't possibly know the proportions, but only that the true descendants of Abraham ~ the saved, and thus those in the congregation of the righteous, standing on Jesus's right in the final judgment, will be an innumerable multitude... as the grains of sand on the seashore, as the stars of the heavens.

See also 1Corinthians 15:51-52.

Yes, this is the resurrection to eternal life. But there will also be those resurrected to judgment, as Jesus says in John 5:28-29 ~

"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."​

This is what we should see in Revelation 20: ~

"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."​

Especially in that last sentence ~ "if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life" ~ we should see, without question, that there will be some number of people there whose names are... will be... found in the book of life, and thus are not... will not be... thrown into the lake of fire. These are the righteous, all those in Christ, all those on His right (Matthew 25:31-46) during the final judgment ~

"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with him, then He will sit on his glorious throne. Before Him will be gathered all the nations, and He will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And He will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world'... Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels... (a)nd these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."​

Grace and peace to all.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There is no "rapture," and nothing will be destroyed in the sense of wiping it from existence, but rather in the sense of complete defeat and ruination. But after the final judgment, there will be... a number of people... who... depart from this earth. And they will experience a death, and be destroyed, again, in the sense of complete defeat and ruination, and permanent removal from Jesus, Who Himself is life ~ the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6) ~ and the new heaven and new earth.

I see you believe in the second coming of Jesus. When will you be raised from the dead? Will Jesus destroy this earth?