Actually Jesus returns twice...

[Spiritual Israelite]

Rev 19 return is not "like manner" in which Jesus ascended.

Do you believe He will return visibly and bodily at that time? If so, then it's the same manner in which He ascended. You're reading more into Acts 1:11 than what is there.

I disagree with your made up biblical gymnastics. Sorry.

LOL. You're not sorry. But, you're also being completely unreasonable here. Neither 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 nor Revelation 19:11-21 can be compared to Acts 1:11 in every possible way, but that seems to be what you insist in order for Acts 1:11 and Revelation 19:11-21 to be about the same event. Yet, you have no such requirement for seeing 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 and Acts 1:11 as being the same event, which is very inconsistent. So, you are the one making things up, not me.

 

[David in NJ]

We have got to rise up to be with him before we can return with him to reign a thousand years.

100% CORRECT

EASY READ

That we may perfect understanding = please read 1st Thess straight thru beginning in chapter 1 and then get back to me and confirm what you read.

 

[The Light]

The anti-Christ is on the scene for 7 years. The actual world wide rule begins in Rev 13 about 1/2 way through the 7 year tribulation.

Please provide a scripture that shows that the antichrist is on the scene for 7 years.

 

[The Light]

This is at the end of the 7 year tribulation.

Please provide a scripture that proves that there is a 7 year tribulation.

 

[CrowCross]

Do you believe He will return visibly and bodily at that time? If so, then it's the same manner in which He ascended. You're reading more into Acts 1:11 than what is there.

Dude, you've lost this argument.

LOL. You're not sorry. But, you're also being completely unreasonable here. Neither 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 nor Revelation 19:11-21 can be compared to Acts 1:11 in every possible way, but that seems to be what you insist in order for Acts 1:11 and Revelation 19:11-21 to be about the same event. Yet, you have no such requirement for seeing 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 and Acts 1:11 as being the same event, which is very inconsistent. So, you are the one making things up, not me.

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN....I'LL TYPE SLOWLY.......T H E R E ... W A S ...N O ...W H I T E... H O R S E... A T... J E S U S '.. A S C E N T I O N.

 

[CrowCross]

Please provide a scripture that shows that the antichrist is on the scene for 7 years.

Who is riding the white horse in Rev 6?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Please provide a scripture that shows that the antichrist is on the scene for 7 years.

7 weeks of Daniel 9:27.
Mid way he descecrates the temple.
We havev A "7"
We have A "3.5"

 

[The Light]

His entire doctrine on end times pivots off of the 6th seal and matt 24

Matt 24 says "after the trib"
( which is tge second coming on white horses)
He interprets that as "prewrath" ( after the "trib")
Well mat 24 "After the tribulation" is the second coming.
Jesus is saying "after tge 7 yr trib"

Please explain why Matthew 24 says immediately after the tribulation the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven which is EXACTLY what occurs when the 6th seal is opened, and yet you want to believe the tired, old unscriptural teaching that this occurs in Revelation 19.

Revelation 19 shows Jesus coming with the armies of heaven for Armageddon. Is there anything in the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 that has anything to do with Armageddon. Is there anything in Revelation 19 that has anything whatsoever to do with Jesus sending His angels for a harvest?

We both know you cannot provide a feasible answer to these questions. And yet you continue to reject the scriptural facts.

We KNOW this , Because , there is only one coming in power and great glory.

So you are telling me that Jesus cannot come in power and glory at the sixth seal?

Wonder why the kings of the earth and the great men and the rich men and others are wanting to hide at the 6th seal. Could it be that Jesus has come in power and glory.

Revelation 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

ONLY ONE...AND IT IS POST WRATH, POST 7 YR TRIB.
SO ALL THAT that "the light" is formulating is off of hyper definitions/ strict definitions...that DO NOT FIT.

So the Lord gives a timestamp and shows you that He is coming in power and glory when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven, and that event is clearly shown to occur at the 6th seal. But instead of believing what is written you follow teachings that have been passed down when the books were sealed. It's time to accept what is written and stop believing what you have been taught.

THE sixth seal is looking forward to the second coming.

Not correct. There is a reason that the seals are in order. The things that happen at the 6th seal.............do not happen at the 7th seal.

Tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The wrath of God is the 7th seal. FACT.

He says no it is prior to the wrath and that the wrath only lasts for a year.

That's what the WORD of God says.........and yet you reject what is written. Why?

The white horse coming is the coming in power and great glory.
It is at the end of the 7 yr trib.
He says no.

Please provide one scripture that shows there is a 7 year tribulation.

 

[The Light]

7 weeks of Daniel 9:27.
Mid way he descecrates the temple.
We havev A "7"
We have A "3.5"

Where does it say that the antichrist rules for 7 years?

 

[The Light]

Who is riding the white horse in Rev 6?

An Antichrist. The beast of the earth. The seventh king.

 

[The Light]

You said "There will be a prewrath rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth."

Which verse says this?
if that's true...then cool. But please show how you derived it.

This will require a multipart answer.

Let's start with are there two raptures. All these Biblical scholars and how many understand there are two raptures?

@rebuilder 454 understands there are two raptures. Props for that. How does he know that? In Revelation 14 we see that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth as first fruits unto God.

Rev 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Acceptable first fruits are guarantee of a harvest. Where is the harvest.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

We know the first fruits are of the 12 tribes, so the harvest is of the 12 tribes. Let's further prove that. The ones that get victory over the beast are singing the song of Moses. They are Jews.

Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

This is one way of many to prove that there are two raptures. Next thing to figure out is when is this second rapture.

 

[David in NJ]

Please explain why Matthew 24 says immediately after the tribulation the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven which is EXACTLY what occurs when the 6th seal is opened, and yet you want to believe the tired, old unscriptural teaching that this occurs in Revelation 19.

YES = Gospel = Mat 13:40

Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[rebuilder 454]

Please explain why Matthew 24 says immediately after the tribulation the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven which is EXACTLY what occurs when the 6th seal is opened, and yet you want to believe the tired, old unscriptural teaching that this occurs in Revelation 19.

Revelation 19 shows Jesus coming with the armies of heaven for Armageddon. Is there anything in the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 that has anything to do with Armageddon. Is there anything in Revelation 19 that has anything whatsoever to do with Jesus sending His angels for a harvest?

We both know you cannot provide a feasible answer to these questions. And yet you continue to reject the scriptural facts.


So you are telling me that Jesus cannot come in power and glory at the sixth seal?

Wonder why the kings of the earth and the great men and the rich men and others are wanting to hide at the 6th seal. Could it be that Jesus has come in power and glory.

Revelation 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So the Lord gives a timestamp and shows you that He is coming in power and glory when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven, and that event is clearly shown to occur at the 6th seal. But instead of believing what is written you follow teachings that have been passed down when the books were sealed. It's time to accept what is written and stop believing what you have been taught.



Not correct. There is a reason that the seals are in order. The things that happen at the 6th seal.............do not happen at the 7th seal.

Tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The wrath of God is the 7th seal. FACT.

That's what the WORD of God says.........and yet you reject what is written. Why?


Please provide one scripture that shows there is a 7 year tribulation.

We differ.
Rev 6 is looking forward to the second coming of Jesus, Post 7 yr tribulation, in power and great glory. The second coming.
Your take in matt is also off.
Jesus sends angels to gather in heaven AFTER THE 7 YR TRIB to the white horses, and they together, make up the second coming on white horses.
A ton of stuff you misrepresent.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I already provided dan 9 :27
7 yr trib...jacobs trouble.
.
Now you provided me with a link, or a ministry, or even an individual, with your same end times interpretation.

 

[CrowCross]

This will require a multipart answer.

Let's start with are there two raptures. All these Biblical scholars and how many understand there are two raptures?

@rebuilder 454 understands there are two raptures. Props for that. How does he know that? In Revelation 14 we see that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth as first fruits unto God.

Rev 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Acceptable first fruits are guarantee of a harvest. Where is the harvest.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

We know the first fruits are of the 12 tribes, so the harvest is of the 12 tribes. Let's further prove that. The ones that get victory over the beast are singing the song of Moses. They are Jews.

Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

This is one way of many to prove that there are two raptures. Next thing to figure out is when is this second rapture.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Yes, the earth was reaped....and what happened to those reaped?

The answer from verse 19...and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

[CrowCross]

An Antichrist. The beast of the earth. The seventh king.

Isn't Rev 6 the beginning of the tribulation with the 4 horseman...and the white horse rider the antichrist leading the way?

 

[Marty fox]

7 weeks of Daniel 9:27.
Mid way he descecrates the temple.
We havev A "7"
We have A "3.5"

John who is the only writer in the bible, is the only one to mention the term antichrist and he don't mention antichrist in revelation

 

[CrowCross]

I already provided dan 9 :27
7 yr trib...jacobs trouble.
.
Now you provided me with a link, or a ministry, or even an individual, with your same end times interpretation.

For the amills...

When the decree to rebuild the temple was given...the clock started.
When Jesus was crucified the clock stopped.
There is one week left....7 years.

This 7 year time of tribulation begins when the treaty is confirmed by the antichrist...the tribulation enters into the great tribulation stage when the antichrist claims to be God in the rebuilt 3rd temple.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Dude, you've lost this argument.

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN....I'LL TYPE SLOWLY.......T H E R E ... W A S ...N O ...W H I T E... H O R S E... A T... J E S U S '.. A S C E N T I O N.

This is such extreme childishness. You apparently have no interest in being taken seriously. Were the dead in Christ resurrected at His ascension? No. So, I guess we can't relate 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 to Acts 1:11 then, according to your ludicrous logic.

 

[CrowCross]

John who is the only writer in the bible, is the only one to mention the term antichrist and he don't mention antichrist in revelation

Rev 6:2...who is this guy?
And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.