How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[faithhopecharity]

I will answer your questions, but we cannot take verses that speak about abiding, fruit, obedience, hope, and future glory, and use them to cancel the plain words of Christ.

Jesus said:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probation. Jesus says the believer has everlasting life now, shall not come into condemnation, and has passed from death unto life.

On John 15, no, I do not believe a truly saved man loses salvation and is later burned in the fire. That would make Jesus contradict Himself in John 6 and John 10. Jesus said, “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” ~John 6:39. He also said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28.

So John 15 must be read with those verses, not against them. The fruitless branch is not a saved man who had eternal life and then lost it. It is a branch with outward connection and no fruit, showing no true life. Judas is the clearest example in the same Gospel. He was close to Christ outwardly, but Jesus said, “ye are clean, but not all” because He knew who would betray Him ~John 13:10-11. John later gives the principle plainly: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us” ~1 John 2:19.

How do we abide in Christ? We continue in Him by faith, His Word, and obedience that flows from real life. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” ~John 8:31. John also says, “Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning” ~1 John 2:24. And when John defines God’s commandment, he does not reduce it to law-keeping as the basis of salvation. He says, “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment” ~1 John 3:23.

Obedience matters. Fruit matters. But fruit is evidence of life, not the purchase price of life.

On John 10:10, abundant life does not mean “eternal salvation plus extra eternal salvation.” Eternal life is not measured like that. Jesus defines eternal life in John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The life Christ gives is real life in fellowship with God, and that life has fullness in Christ. But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

On Matthew 7:14, the narrow way leads unto life, but that does not mean the believer does not possess eternal life now. Scripture speaks of salvation in more than one way. We have been saved, we are being kept, and we will be brought into the final fullness of salvation at the resurrection. Peter says believers are “begotten again unto a lively hope” and have an inheritance “reserved in heaven,” while they are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:3-5. That is not insecurity. That is God keeping His own until the end.

On Mark 10:30, when Jesus says “in the world to come eternal life,” He is speaking of the future fullness of what belongs to the believer. That does not erase the present possession of eternal life. John says, “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. Then he says, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13.

That is present possession, not maybe later if we do enough.

On Matthew 25:46 and Romans 2:7, yes, the righteous enter life eternal, and those who continue in well doing seek glory and immortality. But Romans 2 cannot be used to overthrow Romans 3 and Romans 4. Paul goes on to say, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. Then he says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

So Romans 2 does not teach that we earn eternal life by works. It shows that God’s judgment is righteous and that a changed life matters. But Romans 3 and 4 make clear that justification is not by works. Works reveal what a man is. They do not purchase eternal life.

On hope, you are treating hope like uncertainty. Biblical hope is not “maybe I will make it.” Biblical hope is confident expectation based on God’s promise. Titus 1:2 says, “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.” That hope rests on the promise of God who cannot lie, not on my ability to keep myself saved.

The Holy Spirit does not oppose eternal security. He seals the believer. Paul says, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:13-14. Again, he says, “grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption” ~Ephesians 4:30.

That is the point. Hope does not fight against security. Hope rests on God’s promise. The Spirit of promise does not make salvation uncertain. He is the earnest, the guarantee, until the day of redemption.

So no, eternal security does not oppose hope. It gives hope its foundation. My hope is not in my grip on Christ. My hope is in Christ’s grip on me.

so you agree Jn 10:10 refers to grace as it says in Jn 1:16

And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

I will answer your questions, but we cannot take verses that speak about abiding, fruit, obedience, hope, and future glory, and use them to cancel the plain words of Christ.

Jesus said:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probation. Jesus says the believer has everlasting life now, shall not come into condemnation, and has passed from death unto life.

On John 15, no, I do not believe a truly saved man loses salvation and is later burned in the fire. That would make Jesus contradict Himself in John 6 and John 10. Jesus said, “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” ~John 6:39. He also said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28.

So John 15 must be read with those verses, not against them. The fruitless branch is not a saved man who had eternal life and then lost it. It is a branch with outward connection and no fruit, showing no true life. Judas is the clearest example in the same Gospel. He was close to Christ outwardly, but Jesus said, “ye are clean, but not all” because He knew who would betray Him ~John 13:10-11. John later gives the principle plainly: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us” ~1 John 2:19.

How do we abide in Christ? We continue in Him by faith, His Word, and obedience that flows from real life. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” ~John 8:31. John also says, “Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning” ~1 John 2:24. And when John defines God’s commandment, he does not reduce it to law-keeping as the basis of salvation. He says, “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment” ~1 John 3:23.

Obedience matters. Fruit matters. But fruit is evidence of life, not the purchase price of life.

On John 10:10, abundant life does not mean “eternal salvation plus extra eternal salvation.” Eternal life is not measured like that. Jesus defines eternal life in John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The life Christ gives is real life in fellowship with God, and that life has fullness in Christ. But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

On Matthew 7:14, the narrow way leads unto life, but that does not mean the believer does not possess eternal life now. Scripture speaks of salvation in more than one way. We have been saved, we are being kept, and we will be brought into the final fullness of salvation at the resurrection. Peter says believers are “begotten again unto a lively hope” and have an inheritance “reserved in heaven,” while they are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:3-5. That is not insecurity. That is God keeping His own until the end.

On Mark 10:30, when Jesus says “in the world to come eternal life,” He is speaking of the future fullness of what belongs to the believer. That does not erase the present possession of eternal life. John says, “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. Then he says, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13.

That is present possession, not maybe later if we do enough.

On Matthew 25:46 and Romans 2:7, yes, the righteous enter life eternal, and those who continue in well doing seek glory and immortality. But Romans 2 cannot be used to overthrow Romans 3 and Romans 4. Paul goes on to say, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. Then he says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

So Romans 2 does not teach that we earn eternal life by works. It shows that God’s judgment is righteous and that a changed life matters. But Romans 3 and 4 make clear that justification is not by works. Works reveal what a man is. They do not purchase eternal life.

On hope, you are treating hope like uncertainty. Biblical hope is not “maybe I will make it.” Biblical hope is confident expectation based on God’s promise. Titus 1:2 says, “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.” That hope rests on the promise of God who cannot lie, not on my ability to keep myself saved.

The Holy Spirit does not oppose eternal security. He seals the believer. Paul says, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:13-14. Again, he says, “grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption” ~Ephesians 4:30.

That is the point. Hope does not fight against security. Hope rests on God’s promise. The Spirit of promise does not make salvation uncertain. He is the earnest, the guarantee, until the day of redemption.

So no, eternal security does not oppose hope. It gives hope its foundation. My hope is not in my grip on Christ. My hope is in Christ’s grip on me.

abide by keeping the commandments

Jn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

and three things are eternal

1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

I will answer your questions, but we cannot take verses that speak about abiding, fruit, obedience, hope, and future glory, and use them to cancel the plain words of Christ.

Jesus said:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probation. Jesus says the believer has everlasting life now, shall not come into condemnation, and has passed from death unto life.

On John 15, no, I do not believe a truly saved man loses salvation and is later burned in the fire. That would make Jesus contradict Himself in John 6 and John 10. Jesus said, “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” ~John 6:39. He also said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28.

So John 15 must be read with those verses, not against them. The fruitless branch is not a saved man who had eternal life and then lost it. It is a branch with outward connection and no fruit, showing no true life. Judas is the clearest example in the same Gospel. He was close to Christ outwardly, but Jesus said, “ye are clean, but not all” because He knew who would betray Him ~John 13:10-11. John later gives the principle plainly: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us” ~1 John 2:19.

How do we abide in Christ? We continue in Him by faith, His Word, and obedience that flows from real life. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” ~John 8:31. John also says, “Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning” ~1 John 2:24. And when John defines God’s commandment, he does not reduce it to law-keeping as the basis of salvation. He says, “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment” ~1 John 3:23.

Obedience matters. Fruit matters. But fruit is evidence of life, not the purchase price of life.

On John 10:10, abundant life does not mean “eternal salvation plus extra eternal salvation.” Eternal life is not measured like that. Jesus defines eternal life in John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The life Christ gives is real life in fellowship with God, and that life has fullness in Christ. But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

On Matthew 7:14, the narrow way leads unto life, but that does not mean the believer does not possess eternal life now. Scripture speaks of salvation in more than one way. We have been saved, we are being kept, and we will be brought into the final fullness of salvation at the resurrection. Peter says believers are “begotten again unto a lively hope” and have an inheritance “reserved in heaven,” while they are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:3-5. That is not insecurity. That is God keeping His own until the end.

On Mark 10:30, when Jesus says “in the world to come eternal life,” He is speaking of the future fullness of what belongs to the believer. That does not erase the present possession of eternal life. John says, “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. Then he says, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13.

That is present possession, not maybe later if we do enough.

On Matthew 25:46 and Romans 2:7, yes, the righteous enter life eternal, and those who continue in well doing seek glory and immortality. But Romans 2 cannot be used to overthrow Romans 3 and Romans 4. Paul goes on to say, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. Then he says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

So Romans 2 does not teach that we earn eternal life by works. It shows that God’s judgment is righteous and that a changed life matters. But Romans 3 and 4 make clear that justification is not by works. Works reveal what a man is. They do not purchase eternal life.

On hope, you are treating hope like uncertainty. Biblical hope is not “maybe I will make it.” Biblical hope is confident expectation based on God’s promise. Titus 1:2 says, “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.” That hope rests on the promise of God who cannot lie, not on my ability to keep myself saved.

The Holy Spirit does not oppose eternal security. He seals the believer. Paul says, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:13-14. Again, he says, “grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption” ~Ephesians 4:30.

That is the point. Hope does not fight against security. Hope rests on God’s promise. The Spirit of promise does not make salvation uncertain. He is the earnest, the guarantee, until the day of redemption.

So no, eternal security does not oppose hope. It gives hope its foundation. My hope is not in my grip on Christ. My hope is in Christ’s grip on me.

But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

Christ share's eternal life with us by His grace as long as we have union with Him!

thks

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

Christ share's eternal life with us by His grace as long as we have union with Him!

thks

which is forever. hence the term "eternal" life

it is God who keeps us in him. Not we who keep ourselves in him.

we do not have that power..

 

[faithhopecharity]

I will answer your questions, but we cannot take verses that speak about abiding, fruit, obedience, hope, and future glory, and use them to cancel the plain words of Christ.

Jesus said:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probation. Jesus says the believer has everlasting life now, shall not come into condemnation, and has passed from death unto life.

On John 15, no, I do not believe a truly saved man loses salvation and is later burned in the fire. That would make Jesus contradict Himself in John 6 and John 10. Jesus said, “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” ~John 6:39. He also said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28.

So John 15 must be read with those verses, not against them. The fruitless branch is not a saved man who had eternal life and then lost it. It is a branch with outward connection and no fruit, showing no true life. Judas is the clearest example in the same Gospel. He was close to Christ outwardly, but Jesus said, “ye are clean, but not all” because He knew who would betray Him ~John 13:10-11. John later gives the principle plainly: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us” ~1 John 2:19.

How do we abide in Christ? We continue in Him by faith, His Word, and obedience that flows from real life. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” ~John 8:31. John also says, “Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning” ~1 John 2:24. And when John defines God’s commandment, he does not reduce it to law-keeping as the basis of salvation. He says, “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment” ~1 John 3:23.

Obedience matters. Fruit matters. But fruit is evidence of life, not the purchase price of life.

On John 10:10, abundant life does not mean “eternal salvation plus extra eternal salvation.” Eternal life is not measured like that. Jesus defines eternal life in John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The life Christ gives is real life in fellowship with God, and that life has fullness in Christ. But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

On Matthew 7:14, the narrow way leads unto life, but that does not mean the believer does not possess eternal life now. Scripture speaks of salvation in more than one way. We have been saved, we are being kept, and we will be brought into the final fullness of salvation at the resurrection. Peter says believers are “begotten again unto a lively hope” and have an inheritance “reserved in heaven,” while they are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:3-5. That is not insecurity. That is God keeping His own until the end.

On Mark 10:30, when Jesus says “in the world to come eternal life,” He is speaking of the future fullness of what belongs to the believer. That does not erase the present possession of eternal life. John says, “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. Then he says, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13.

That is present possession, not maybe later if we do enough.

On Matthew 25:46 and Romans 2:7, yes, the righteous enter life eternal, and those who continue in well doing seek glory and immortality. But Romans 2 cannot be used to overthrow Romans 3 and Romans 4. Paul goes on to say, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. Then he says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

So Romans 2 does not teach that we earn eternal life by works. It shows that God’s judgment is righteous and that a changed life matters. But Romans 3 and 4 make clear that justification is not by works. Works reveal what a man is. They do not purchase eternal life.

On hope, you are treating hope like uncertainty. Biblical hope is not “maybe I will make it.” Biblical hope is confident expectation based on God’s promise. Titus 1:2 says, “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.” That hope rests on the promise of God who cannot lie, not on my ability to keep myself saved.

The Holy Spirit does not oppose eternal security. He seals the believer. Paul says, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:13-14. Again, he says, “grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption” ~Ephesians 4:30.

That is the point. Hope does not fight against security. Hope rests on God’s promise. The Spirit of promise does not make salvation uncertain. He is the earnest, the guarantee, until the day of redemption.

So no, eternal security does not oppose hope. It gives hope its foundation. My hope is not in my grip on Christ. My hope is in Christ’s grip on me.

rom refers to works of the law or natural works not supernatural works empowered by grace

thks

 

[bdavidc]

rom refers to works of the law or natural works not supernatural works empowered by grace

thks

That distinction does not fix the problem. Romans 4:5 does not say, “to him that does natural works not.” It says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

The issue is not whether the works are natural or empowered by grace. The issue is whether works are being made the ground of eternal life. Scripture does not allow that. “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us” ~Titus 3:5.

Grace does produce obedience. I agree with that. Ephesians 2 says we are “created in Christ Jesus unto good works” ~Ephesians 2:10. But the same passage says salvation is “not of works, lest any man should boast” ~Ephesians 2:8-9.

So yes, real faith bears fruit. Grace changes a man. But those works are the result of salvation, not the condition that keeps a man justified before God. Christ saves. Works show the life He has already given.

 

[bdavidc]

But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

Christ share's eternal life with us by His grace as long as we have union with Him!

thks

I agree that eternal life is in union with Christ. Scripture says, “this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. No Christ, no life.

But the problem is the phrase “as long as.” That makes union with Christ sound like something the believer keeps alive by his own staying power. Scripture puts it the other way around. The believer is kept by God.

Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28. He did not say, “I share eternal life with them until they fail to hold union with Me.” He said He gives eternal life, they shall never perish, and no one can pluck them out of His hand.

Paul says believers are “sealed with that holy Spirit of promise” and that the Spirit is “the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:13-14. That is not a weak union hanging by a thread. That is God sealing His own until redemption.

Yes, we must abide in Christ. But abiding is not the meritorious condition that keeps eternal life from expiring. It is the evidence of real life. John says, “They went out from us, but they were not of us” ~1 John 2:19. He does not say they were truly of Christ and then lost union. He says their departure revealed they were never truly of us.

Christ is not handing out temporary eternal life. Eternal life is in Him, and those who truly belong to Him are kept by Him.

 

[bdavidc]

abide by keeping the commandments

Jn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

and three things are eternal

1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

thks

John 15:10 does say we abide in His love by keeping His commandments. I do not deny that. The issue is what you are making that mean.

Jesus is not saying eternal life expires every time obedience is imperfect. If that were the case, no believer would have any security at all. Scripture says, “If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” ~1 John 2:1. That is written to believers.

Keeping His commandments is the fruit and evidence of abiding, not the purchase price of eternal life. John says, “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments” ~1 John 2:3. Notice the order. Obedience shows that we know Him. It does not replace faith in Christ as the ground of life.

And John tells us plainly what His commandment is: “That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another” ~1 John 3:23. Faith and love belong together. True faith does not remain barren. But love does not become another savior beside Christ.

As for 1 Corinthians 13:13, faith, hope, and charity abide. Amen. But that verse does not teach that eternal life is uncertain or that a born-again believer can perish. Paul is showing the superiority of love over temporary gifts, not overturning John 10:28, John 5:24, Ephesians 1:13-14, or Romans 4:5.

Charity is the greatest of the three, but charity is not the blood of Christ. Charity did not die for my sins. Christ did. Love is the fruit of life in Christ, not the foundation of justification before God.

 

[bdavidc]

Jn 15 no in order to be a branch it must have been in Christ and did not abide

I don't believe we can lose salvation either, thats why I don't believe we receive salvation until we die mt 10:22 and are judged heb 9:27

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(eternal salvation)


thks

That actually creates a bigger problem. To avoid saying salvation can be lost, you are now saying the believer does not receive salvation until death. But Scripture says the believer has life now.

Jesus said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24. That is present possession. He “hath everlasting life.” He “is passed from death unto life.”

John says the same thing: “God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. Then he says, “that ye may know that ye have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13. Not maybe after death. Not maybe after judgment. “Ye have eternal life.”

Matthew 10:22 does not erase that. Endurance matters. The saved endure because God keeps His own. Peter says believers are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:5. That shows a future fullness of salvation, but it does not deny present salvation.

Hebrews 9:27 says judgment comes after death. I agree. But John 5:24 says the believer “shall not come into condemnation.” Judgment does not mean the believer waits until death to find out if Christ’s promise was true.

Romans 2:7 and Hebrews 10:36 speak of endurance and the final receiving of what God promised. I agree with that too. But they cannot be used to cancel verses that say the believer is already saved. Paul says God “hath saved us” ~2 Timothy 1:9. Titus says, “according to his mercy he saved us” ~Titus 3:5. Colossians says the Father “hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son” ~Colossians 1:13.

On John 15, being called a “branch” does not automatically prove saving life. Judas had outward connection to Christ, yet Jesus said, “ye are clean, but not all” ~John 13:10-11. John later explains that those who depart show they were not truly of us ~1 John 2:19.

The Bible does not teach temporary salvation, and it also does not teach that salvation only begins after death. It teaches present eternal life, present salvation, present sealing by the Spirit, and future final glory for those whom God keeps.

 

[bdavidc]

can pass from spiritual death to spiritual life and from spiritual life to spiritual death!

rev 22: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

not concerned with probability but possibility

you cannot have your name taken out unless it is first written there

rom 8:1 no condemnation as long as you walk according to the spirit

gal 5 shall not enter the kingdom including christians

depart from iniquity or depart from Jesus Christ!

sin cause the loss of grace and union with God!

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.

2 tim 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ DEPART FROM
INIQUITY.

Matthew 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do INIQUITY.

Romans 6:19
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Hebrews 1:9
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The problem is that you are making the warning passages cancel the promise passages. I am not denying the warnings. I am denying that the warnings mean eternal life can become temporary life.

Jesus did not say a believer passes from death to life, then back to death, then maybe back to life again. He said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24. That is not a revolving door. He “hath everlasting life” and “shall not come into condemnation.”

Revelation 22:19 is a fearful warning against corrupting the words of the prophecy. I receive that warning. But you cannot use that verse to overthrow John 10:28 where Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish.” If the Lord says His sheep shall never perish, then Revelation 22 cannot mean His true sheep perish after all.

Romans 8:1 does not teach that justification comes and goes every time a believer struggles. Read the chapter. Paul says, “ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you” ~Romans 8:9. The difference is not a saved man losing and regaining salvation. The difference is between those who are in the flesh and those who are in the Spirit.

Galatians 5 is also true. Those who live in the works of the flesh “shall not inherit the kingdom of God” ~Galatians 5:21. I agree. No one living in open rebellion should comfort himself as saved. But that still does not mean a truly born again man loses eternal life. It means a life ruled by the flesh exposes a man as not walking in the Spirit.

Matthew 7:23 actually proves the opposite of your point. Jesus does not say, “I knew you once, but then you lost union with Me.” He says, “I never knew you.” That is the issue. They had religious works, but they were workers of iniquity. They were never known by Christ savingly.

Second Timothy 2:19 gives both sides together: “The Lord knoweth them that are his” and “Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” God knows His own, and His own must depart from iniquity. That is not salvation by sinless perfection. John says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves” ~1 John 1:8. He also says, “If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” ~1 John 2:1.

Sin is serious. Sin grieves the Spirit. Sin brings chastening. Sin exposes false professors when a man lives in it without repentance. But Scripture does not say sin causes a truly born again believer to lose eternal life and fall out of Christ. The believer stands by grace. “By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand” ~Romans 5:2.

The call is not “depart from iniquity or lose eternal life.” The call is, if you name the name of Christ, depart from iniquity because the Lord knows those who are His. Real grace does not make peace with sin, but real grace also does not turn Christ’s promise into a maybe.

 

[bdavidc]

believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

implies a perpetual belief!

True faith continues. I do not deny that. But that does not change what John 5:24 says.

Jesus did not say, “He that keeps believing long enough might later receive everlasting life.” He said the one believing “hath everlasting life,” “shall not come into condemnation,” and “is passed from death unto life.” Those are present realities attached to true faith.

The issue is not whether a believer continues. Scripture says he does. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” ~John 8:31. John says those who abandon Christ prove they were never truly of Him: “They went out from us, but they were not of us” ~1 John 2:19.

But continuing faith is the evidence of real life, not the cause that keeps eternal life from expiring. The same Christ who gives life also keeps His sheep. “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28.

If you say John 5:24 implies true continuing faith, I agree. If you use that to make everlasting life temporary until man fails, then you have gone against the plain words of Christ.

 

[faithhopecharity]

I will answer your questions, but we cannot take verses that speak about abiding, fruit, obedience, hope, and future glory, and use them to cancel the plain words of Christ.

Jesus said:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probation. Jesus says the believer has everlasting life now, shall not come into condemnation, and has passed from death unto life.

On John 15, no, I do not believe a truly saved man loses salvation and is later burned in the fire. That would make Jesus contradict Himself in John 6 and John 10. Jesus said, “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” ~John 6:39. He also said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28.

So John 15 must be read with those verses, not against them. The fruitless branch is not a saved man who had eternal life and then lost it. It is a branch with outward connection and no fruit, showing no true life. Judas is the clearest example in the same Gospel. He was close to Christ outwardly, but Jesus said, “ye are clean, but not all” because He knew who would betray Him ~John 13:10-11. John later gives the principle plainly: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us” ~1 John 2:19.

How do we abide in Christ? We continue in Him by faith, His Word, and obedience that flows from real life. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” ~John 8:31. John also says, “Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning” ~1 John 2:24. And when John defines God’s commandment, he does not reduce it to law-keeping as the basis of salvation. He says, “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment” ~1 John 3:23.

Obedience matters. Fruit matters. But fruit is evidence of life, not the purchase price of life.

On John 10:10, abundant life does not mean “eternal salvation plus extra eternal salvation.” Eternal life is not measured like that. Jesus defines eternal life in John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The life Christ gives is real life in fellowship with God, and that life has fullness in Christ. But the believer already has eternal life according to John 5:24 and 1 John 5:11-13.

On Matthew 7:14, the narrow way leads unto life, but that does not mean the believer does not possess eternal life now. Scripture speaks of salvation in more than one way. We have been saved, we are being kept, and we will be brought into the final fullness of salvation at the resurrection. Peter says believers are “begotten again unto a lively hope” and have an inheritance “reserved in heaven,” while they are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:3-5. That is not insecurity. That is God keeping His own until the end.

On Mark 10:30, when Jesus says “in the world to come eternal life,” He is speaking of the future fullness of what belongs to the believer. That does not erase the present possession of eternal life. John says, “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. Then he says, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13.

That is present possession, not maybe later if we do enough.

On Matthew 25:46 and Romans 2:7, yes, the righteous enter life eternal, and those who continue in well doing seek glory and immortality. But Romans 2 cannot be used to overthrow Romans 3 and Romans 4. Paul goes on to say, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. Then he says, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

So Romans 2 does not teach that we earn eternal life by works. It shows that God’s judgment is righteous and that a changed life matters. But Romans 3 and 4 make clear that justification is not by works. Works reveal what a man is. They do not purchase eternal life.

On hope, you are treating hope like uncertainty. Biblical hope is not “maybe I will make it.” Biblical hope is confident expectation based on God’s promise. Titus 1:2 says, “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.” That hope rests on the promise of God who cannot lie, not on my ability to keep myself saved.

The Holy Spirit does not oppose eternal security. He seals the believer. Paul says, “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:13-14. Again, he says, “grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption” ~Ephesians 4:30.

That is the point. Hope does not fight against security. Hope rests on God’s promise. The Spirit of promise does not make salvation uncertain. He is the earnest, the guarantee, until the day of redemption.

So no, eternal security does not oppose hope. It gives hope its foundation. My hope is not in my grip on Christ. My hope is in Christ’s grip on me.

a sinner is not simply in a state of sin but included the deeds of the flesh

a believer is not simply a state of righteousness but must involve the practice of righteousness the deeds that fullfil the law of the spirit!

Lk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(eternal salvation)

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

unless you already have salvation then he would have no reason to tempt you or seem your destruction
Titus 2:12
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

thks

 

[Scott Downey]

Jn 15 no in order to be a branch it must have been in Christ and did not abide

I don't believe we can lose salvation either, thats why I don't believe we receive salvation until we die mt 10:22 and are judged heb 9:27

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(eternal salvation)


thks

Well you like scripture, here Jesus corrects you about eternal life which is eternal salvation, and it happens during this life, not after the judgment.

John 5:24
Verily, verily I say unto you, he that heareth My Word and believeth in Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.

 

[Scott Downey]

Scripture never actually says people receive eternal life after they are judged.
Fact is believers escape the final judgment of life and death, names in the book of life or not as they are eternally alive when they believed. Their names are found written in the book of life of the Lamb.
But of course all come before Christ for judgment, but for good works they shall receive rewards, some get none or few rewards.


ASV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
AMP
“I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the person who hears My word [the one who heeds My message], and believes and trusts in Him who sent Me, has (possesses now) eternal life [that is, eternal life actually begins—the believer is transformed], and does not come into judgment and condemnation, but has passed [over] from death into life.
AMPC
I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, the person whose ears are open to My words [who listens to My message] and believes and trusts in and clings to and relies on Him Who sent Me has (possesses now) eternal life. And he does not come into judgment [does not incur sentence of judgment, will not come under condemnation], but he has already passed over out of death into life.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
And the naked ones, says to me they are going to be burned in the fire as they do not have the righteousness of Christ. Unbelieving ones are judged by what they did, their works, not on what they believed as they did not believe in Christ, whatever they believed, they believed in vain, it was worthless and useless what they thought they knew. And no one will be justified by their works.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 5 - 21st Century King James Version

For we know that if our earthly house, this tabernacle, were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed about with our house which is from Heaven, that, being so clothed, we shall not be found...

www.biblegateway.com

For we know that if our earthly house, this tabernacle, were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed about with our house which is from Heaven,

3 that, being so clothed, we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened, not because we would be unclothed, but clothed about, that mortality might be swallowed up by life.

5 Now He that hath wrought us for this selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the pledge of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord;

7 for we walk by faith, not by sight.

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

9 Therefore we labor, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted by Him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God, and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

 

[Scott Downey]

God justifies the UNGODLY
He does not justify us by our works.

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 4 - 21st Century King James Version

What shall we say then that Abraham our father hath found pertaining to the flesh? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath reason to glory, but not before God. For what saith the Scripture? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Now to him that worketh...

www.biblegateway.com

What shall we say then that Abraham our father hath found pertaining to the flesh?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath reason to glory, but not before God.

3 For what saith the Scripture? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.”

4 Now to him that worketh, his reward is reckoned not according to grace, but according to debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth in Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness,

6 even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying,

7 “Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.”

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the Circumcision only, or upon the Uncircumcision also? For we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision!

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had, yet being uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are not circumcised, that righteousness might be imputed unto them also,

12 and the father of circumcision to those who are not of the Circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had, being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise that he should be the heir of the world came not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if those who are of the law be heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect,

15 because the law worketh wrath; for where there is no law, there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be given by grace to the end that the promise might be made sure to all the seed, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

17 (as it is written: “I have made thee a father of many nations”), in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead and calleth those things which are not, as though they were.

18 Abraham, against all hope, believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, “So shall thy seed be.”

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about a hundred years old, nor yet the deadness of Sarah’s womb.

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strong in faith, giving glory to God,

21 and being fully persuaded that what He had promised, He was able also to perform.

22 And therefore “it was imputed to him for righteousness.”

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him,

24 but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed if we believe in Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead,

25 who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[Scott Downey]

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law, no flesh shall be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

22 even the righteousness of God, which is by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all those who believe. For there is no difference,

23 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,

24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

25 Him God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 to declare, I say, at this time, His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him that believeth in Jesus.

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 3 - 21st Century King James Version

What advantage then hath the Jew? Or what profit is there in circumcision? Much in every way; chiefly because unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? God forbid! Yea, let God be true, but...

www.biblegateway.com

What advantage then hath the Jew? Or what profit is there in circumcision?

2 Much in every way; chiefly because unto them were committed the oracles of God.

3 For what if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?

4 God forbid! Yea, let God be true, but every man a liar. As it is written: “That Thou mightest be justified in Thy sayings, and mightest overcome when Thou art judged.”

5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man.)

6 God forbid! For then how shall God judge the world?

7 For if the truth of God through my lie hath abounded more unto His glory, why am I also yet judged as a sinner?

8 And why not say rather (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), “Let us do evil, that good may come”? Their damnation is just!

9 What then? Are we better than they? No, in no wise! For we have before proved that both Jews and Gentiles are all under sin.

10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one;

11 there is none that understandeth; there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They have all gone from the way; they have together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”

13 “Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit.” “The poison of asps is under their lips,”

14 “whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”

15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;

16 destruction and misery are in their ways,

17 and the way of peace have they not known.”

18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19 Now we know that whatsoever things the law saith, it saith to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law, no flesh shall be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

22 even the righteousness of God, which is by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all those who believe. For there is no difference,

23 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,

24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

25 Him God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 to declare, I say, at this time, His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him that believeth in Jesus.

19 Now we know that whatsoever things the law saith, it saith to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law, no flesh shall be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

22 even the righteousness of God, which is by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all those who believe. For there is no difference,

23 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,

24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

25 Him God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 to declare, I say, at this time, His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him that believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay, but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

29 Is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,

30 seeing it is one God who shall justify the Circumcision by faith, and Uncircumcision through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid! Yea, we establish the law.

 

[JimKnox]

I understand what you are saying, but I still do not see 1 Corinthians 9 teaching the same thing as Matthew 25. In 1 Corinthians 9, Paul is talking about running a race, keeping his body under control, and not being disapproved after preaching to others. The whole context is service, discipline, reward, and being useful to the Lord. He says, “So run, that ye may obtain” 1 Corinthians 9:24. That is prize language.

But Matthew 25 ends differently. The third servant is not simply told he lost a reward. Jesus calls him “wicked and slothful” Matthew 25:26. Then He says, “Cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” Matthew 25:30. That is much stronger than losing reward.

A true believer can lose reward. I agree with that. First Corinthians 3:15 says a man’s work can be burned, “but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” But that is not what Matthew 25 says about the third servant. The passage does not say he was saved as by fire. It says he was cast into outer darkness.

Also, calling him a servant does not prove he was born again. Jesus also spoke of an evil servant in Matthew 24 who was given “his portion with the hypocrites” Matthew 24:51. In Matthew 7, people say, “Lord, Lord,” and Jesus says, “I never knew you” Matthew 7:22-23. A profession, position, or outward connection does not equal saving faith.

That is my main point. I am not denying loss of reward. I am saying Matthew 25 is not the passage to prove it. First Corinthians 9 is about Paul being disciplined so he is not disapproved in service. Matthew 25 is about a wicked servant being exposed and cast out. Those are not the same thing.

Ok.

 

[Wrangler]

well you can deny it all you want

Your the one who is denying it; no noun is time dependent. Odd to make a theological claim based on grammar. If I forgive the $10 debt you owe me, that grace doesn't apply to future debts.

Once you are under its umbrella. you can not come out from it..

Hebrews 10:26 means nothing to you, a sin that has no sacrifice to cover? That suggests it is possible to come out from the umbrella.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your the one who is denying it; no noun is time dependent. Odd to make a theological claim based on grammar. If I forgive the $10 debt you owe me, that grace doesn't apply to future debts.

lol.. I am not denying anything,

Grace is eternal.. apart from grace. no one will see God. except on judgment day so he can cast you out

Hebrews 10:26 means nothing to you, a sin that has no sacrifice to cover? That suggests it is possible to come out from the umbrella.

yeah it actually does. If you reject God and his gift. there remains no more sactifice for sin. You will continue to be condemned, because you have not trusted him

Not every who says lord lord....has had saving faith.

sadly. far to many trust selves more than they trust God..

 

[bdavidc]

how do you know eternal life is the same as eternal salvation?

Because Scripture connects the two.

Jesus said, “that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life” ~John 3:15. The opposite of perishing is having eternal life. That is salvation language.

He also said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24. That is not merely quality of life. That is deliverance from condemnation and passage from death to life.

Paul says, “the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” ~Romans 6:23. Again, the issue is sin, death, judgment, and God’s gift. That is salvation.

And Hebrews says Christ is “the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him” ~Hebrews 5:9. So Scripture itself uses the language of eternal salvation. Eternal life is not something separate from salvation. It is the life God gives in His Son to those He saves.

John says, “God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” ~1 John 5:11. Then he says believers may “know that ye have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13. If a man has eternal life in the Son, has passed from death to life, and shall not come into condemnation, then he has salvation.