What does it mean to be "born again"?

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Lambano

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Amniotic fluid is from natural birth.
Not water.
Jesus is wise and would surely not get these two things mixed up
Overly literal interpretation. We're working in the realm of symbols and parables here.

My own reason for rejecting the "natural birth" interpretation is that it's redundant/trivial. You can't see the Kingdom of God unless you were born of the flesh first? Is there anybody here who was never born? (Raise your hands, people.) Why bother to say that?

I'm inclined to reject a literal "baptism" interpretation because I don't believe in magical religious rituals run by an elite priesthood. But I don't have an alternative explanation for the presence of "water" in verse 5. What is the symbolic meaning of the baptism ritual?
 
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Lambano

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I'm more intrigued about what Jesus meant in verse 8:

8 "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
 
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IndianaRob

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I'm more intrigued about what Jesus meant in verse 8:

8 "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
I think it means that the second birth, like the wind is not something you can visibly see but you can see affects in the believer just like you can see the affects of the wind.
 

amigo de christo

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I think it means that the second birth, like the wind is not something you can visibly see but you can see affects in the believer just like you can see the affects of the wind.
this holds some truth indeed my friend . Only those of this born again wind
know from whence it cometh too . and believe me when i say , to even many within churches
the truly born again seem to them as monsters and as haters .
What is GOD , thus what is CHRIST , thus what is the Spirit . TRUTH .
yet many do not like and embrace TRUTH , for there is no darkness in it
and it will not accept sins , lies , rebelligion . And many need a god that accepts their sin
and gives them a promise of salvation too .
They shall surely wail and perhaps more than all others . For while many false religoins
and while they who are of the world did much evil , THESE did EVIL and DID SO IN HIS NAME .
Not gonna bode well at all for such .
Just a friendly reminder for us all . Let us ensure its the voice of THIS JESUS , whom we do love obey and believe ,
FOR THIS cause came i into the world and for this reason was i born
TO TESTIFY of ......................................THE TRUTH .
Cause i sure sees me another jesus in a lot of pulpits
ONLY that one AINT TO KEEN AboUT TRUTH but rather seems
to be bringing a false sensual love of the world , claiming it to be the LOVE OF GOD .
But it darn sure rejoices in inquity , NOT IN THE TRUTH .
 

amigo de christo

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I'm more intrigued about what Jesus meant in verse 8:

8 "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
be sure and read post eighty four my friend .
 

stevesonthebay

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What does this term "born again" mean to you?

And how can you be sure you are "born again"?

How does "water and spirit" apply to your understanding of being born again?

The term comes from the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3. What do you make of the fact that the rest of the chapter, immediately aftet this conversation, is focused on baptism?
I like the Chosen series where Nicodemus is baffled about how someone can be born again and go back into their mothers womb. It seems the idea of being born again of the spirit was an alien concept.

Perhaps because baptism of water was a tanglible act of coming out from the water as now committing and belonging to God. This was being washed in the flesh.

Christ fullfilled the law and His sacrifice and resurrection over the flesh and death is being born again. By accepting Christ we sacrifice our own flesh with Christ and also rise up again in Gods spirit a new person. We live by the spirit over the flesh even to the point where our flesh bodies suffer.

As Paul said "it is no longer I that lives but Christ that lives in me".
 

stevesonthebay

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I'm more intrigued about what Jesus meant in verse 8:

8 "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
I think just like the wind is invisible and yet can be percieved by sound so is the spirit of God. Except instead of wind it is Gods spirit at work. We see and hear of Gods works and its always unpredictable. You cannot say that Gods spirit will do this or that. Gods acts in mysterious ways.

Christ uses the weather and nature in parables. For example referring to the changing seasons and the ripening of fruit. You sort of know its changing but cannot fully say what exactly this is. It has several signs that add up to being Gods spirit at work. Nevertheless you know in your heart it is Gods spirit.

Christians walk through this world as though they are not of this world. Everything has a spiritual meaning beyond what the world is about. Paul covers being born of the spirit and the battle with our flesh natures. I think its something we have to work on and keep sacrificing our fallen nature to mature spiritually and in faith.

Galatians 5:16-18
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[a] you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Galatians 5: 24
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 2:20
I have been tcrucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives uin me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, vwho loved me and wgave himself for me.
 
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Armour of God

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What did Nicodemus think and say when Jesus said to him "you must be born again"? John 3:4 - "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" John 3:5 -Most assuredly, I say to your, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.. John 3::6 - that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The whole purpose of the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus was being reborn from above, not water baptism. Jesus did not say get immersed in water. Jesus said Born of water, got it? How can you be Born of water? Only from the Mother.

Birth fluid is not water at all.
It's amniotic fluid.
Jesus is wise.
It's highly improbable that Jesus got this simple fact mixed up.

Besides, if Jesus was talking about 2 separate events he would of said "water THEN spirit"
But the fact that he says "water AND spirit" is a clear indication that he is talking about one singular event
 
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Bladerunner

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Birth fluid is not water at all.
It's amniotic fluid.
Jesus is wise.
It's highly improbable that Jesus got this simple fact mixed up
There are NO ways that Jesus got anything mixed up. He is sovereign over all. Check out Eze 36:22-36....No this is the NEW covenant with Israel and as co-inheritors of GOD's promises, we Gentiles also receive the new heart of Flesh plus many others attibutes from God himself.
 
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Armour of God

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When Jesus spoke to Nicodemus in John 3, He was not introducing a new religious ceremony but revealing a spiritual reality that every person must experience if they are to enter the kingdom of God.

Jesus said "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3
Nicodemus immediately thought in physical terms, asking how a grown man could enter his mother's womb a second time. Jesus gently corrected him by explaining that He was speaking of a birth that is spiritual, not physical.

Continued: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:5-6

The contrast throughout the passage is between natural birth and spiritual birth. We are all born into this world physically, but no one enters God's kingdom apart from the work of the Holy Spirit. The new birth is not something we accomplish ourselves. It is the work of God within us. This truth is repeated throughout the New Testament.

Paul writes: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost." Titus 3:5

Peter says: "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God." 1 Peter 1:23

The new birth is God's gracious act of giving spiritual life to those who place their faith in Jesus Christ. It is not simply turning over a new leaf, joining a church, or becoming more religious. It is receiving a new heart and a new life.

So how can someone know they have been born again? The Bible points to both faith and fruit.

A person who has been born again believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and trusts Him for salvation. They have turned to Him in repentance, not trusting in their own goodness or religious works. Along with this faith comes a changed heart. While believers are not instantly perfected, there is a growing desire to obey God, love Him, love fellow believers, and turn away from sin. The Holy Spirit begins producing His fruit within them Galatians 5:22–23. As Paul says:

"If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17
This transformation is not the basis of salvation but the evidence of it.

What, then, does Jesus mean by being born "of water and of the Spirit"?

Faithful Christians have understood these words in different ways. Some understand "water" to refer to Christian baptism. Others understand it as referring to physical birth. Another view, which many find compelling, connects Jesus' words with God's promise in Ezekiel:

"Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean... A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you... and I will put my Spirit within you." Ezekiel 36:25-27

This prophecy brings together cleansing with water and the gift of God's Spirit. Since Jesus expected Nicodemus, "the teacher of Israel," to understand what He was saying John 3:10, it seems likely that He was pointing him back to these Old Testament promises of inward cleansing and spiritual renewal.

Immediately after this conversation, John's Gospel tells us that Jesus and his disciples went into the countryside, where people were being baptized John 3:22. That naturally raises the question of whether baptism itself is the new birth.

The New Testament presents baptism as deeply important. Jesus commanded his followers to be baptized. The apostles baptized those who believed. Baptism is the public confession that a believer has identified with Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection Romans 6:3-4
It is an act of obedience that should never be neglected or treated lightly.

At the same time, John's Gospel consistently emphasizes that eternal life is received through believing in Jesus Christ.

Only a few verses after speaking with Nicodemus, Jesus says: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

Continued: "He that believeth on him is not condemned." John 3:18 And again, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life." John 3:36. Throughout John's Gospel, believing in Christ is presented as the means by which we receive eternal life. Baptism follows as the obedient response of those who have believed.

The book of Acts reflects this same pattern. People heard the gospel, believed in Jesus Christ, and were then baptized as a public declaration of their faith. Baptism was never presented as an optional extra, but neither was it separated from faith in Christ.

The new birth, therefore, is far more than an outward act. It is the miracle of God bringing a spiritually dead sinner to life through the work of the Holy Spirit. Baptism beautifully testifies to that inward reality, but it is the Holy Spirit who gives life.

Jesus compared the Spirit's work to the wind: "The wind bloweth where it listeth... so is every one that is born of the Spirit." John 3:8
We cannot control the wind, but we see its effects. In the same way, we cannot manufacture the new birth, but where the Holy Spirit has given new life, its evidence will become visible in a person's faith, love, obedience, and growing likeness to Christ.

That is why Jesus did not tell Nicodemus merely to become more religious. He told him something far more profound:

"Ye must be born again." John 3:7

That remains the heart of the gospel today.

To be honest your explanation just confused me. At one stage you seem to be saying that being born again doesn't involve baptism but then it looks like your saying that it does involve baptism. Which one is it?

I believe in the ancient interpretation that being born again does involve baptism. I've already given my reasons why I believe that is more likely than the modern day interpretation of born again
 

Armour of God

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Overly literal interpretation. We're working in the realm of symbols and parables here

It's still no reason for Jesus to use incorrect terminology

My own reason for rejecting the "natural birth" interpretation is that it's redundant/trivial. You can't see the Kingdom of God unless you were born of the flesh first? Is there anybody here who was never born? (Raise your hands, people.) Why bother to say that?

Thats another reason, I was thinking that as well. It's something that doesn't need to be mentioned, we're all born from a mother first.

Also the fact that he says "water AND spirit" is a clear indication that He is speaking about one event, otherwise he would of said "water THEN spirit"

So it's actually 3 reasons I have for not agreeing that water refers to natural birth
 
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Armour of God

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I'm more intrigued about what Jesus meant in verse 8:

8 "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

I'm not sure.
Do you have any idea?
 

Armour of God

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There are NO ways that Jesus got anything mixed up. He is sovereign over all. Check out Eze 36:22-36....No this is the NEW covenant with Israel and as co-inheritors of GOD's promises, we Gentiles also receive the new heart of Flesh plus many others attibutes from God himself.

Yea someone else mentioned Eze 36:22-36
Interesting
 
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Lambano

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We're working in the realm of symbols and parables here.

It's still no reason for Jesus to use incorrect terminology

Symbolic language requires a different mindset. Jesus isn't using "terminology". He's using imagery of familiar things to explain spiritual things. "Putting words to something that has no words", a phrase used by an old preacher of mine. Jesus is, of course, famous for His parables. Same principle.

If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? (John 3:12).
 
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Lambano

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To be honest your explanation just confused me. At one stage you seem to be saying that being born again doesn't involve baptism but then it looks like your saying that it does involve baptism. Which one is it?
I think Angelina has a good handle on the subject. What does baptism MEAN?

The synoptics seem unanimous that baptism symbolizes repentance and forgiveness of sin. Verse 26 also compares it to the Jewish purification (holiness) rituals.

I'm thinking new birth (new life) starts with repentance and forgiveness. I'm not sure, though, if holiness is a pre-req for new life, or a result thereof.
 
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Lambano

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What does this term "born again" mean to you?

And how can you be sure you are "born again"?
I'm more intrigued about what Jesus meant in verse 8:

8 "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
I'm not sure.
Do you have any idea?
I think Jesus is (sort of) answering your second question in the OP. How do you know if you you've been "born again"? I hear Jesus saying that those who have been "born of the Spirit" can sense the Holy Ghost, but they don't know how they know.

Which is pretty much saying, "You just know".

For those struggling with assurance, I don't think they'll find it here
 

Ronald David Bruno

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What does this term "born again" mean to you?

And how can you be sure you are "born again"?

How does "water and spirit" apply to your understanding of being born again?

The term comes from the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3. What do you make of the fact that the rest of the chapter, immediately aftet this conversation, is focused on baptism?
John Piper explains it very well.

 

Lambano

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For those struggling with assurance, I don't think they'll find it here
But then, Jesus's purpose may not have been to tell Nicodemus how to "get saved" per se. Nicodemus was a Pharisee and a member of the Sanhedrin. Starting with verse 12, Jesus changes His mode of address to Nicodemus as representative of the Jewish people as evidenced by the change of "you" singular to "you plural" ("all y'all", in the local North Carolina dialect; "youze guys" in Brooklynese).

“If I told y'all earthly things and y'all do not believe, how will y'all believe if I tell you heavenly things?

Nicodemus, you and your people want to see the Kingdom of God come. And yet y'all will never see it because y'all don't trust me, the one whom God sent.

This section is about faith and trust.
 
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