Burial vs Cremation

[quietthinker]

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

Fundamental to the Christian is accepting Jesus as Savior. What does “Jesus is my Savior” mean to you? (What is it that the Christian believes will be saved, and when?)

Blessings.

It means I believe Jesus is the full and complete representation of his Father. In other words, he has successfully countered Satans insinuations (lies)that God is both good and evil (as believed by Old Testament writers)

God has forgiven all my sins and has never been out for payback ie, punishment. (Romans 10:9-10) God has always been the same. He has never changed....it is that men have misunderstood him throughout history. Jesus is the final and definitive revelation of God's character. It is him (Jesus) we are to listen to.
The Gospel is good news far beyond mans cobbling. It is unconditional kindness towards those who hate him....even kill him

Do I believe all mankind will eventually be saved? No. Men's choices are honoured. Choosing to seperate from the source of life, light and love inevitably results in death. Many choose to reject, hate or dismiss the life giver in favour of their own preferences.

Mens choices of rejection do not impact God's attitude of kindness. (John 1 tells us that God is light and in him is no darkness at all)....which never changes.

Men reject God's kindness because they have believed THE lie. ....ie, that God has a dark side.
Men have believed it is God who is responsible for calamity's (floods, fires, famines, earthquakes, volcanos etc) forgetting there is an evil being operating (Satan) in human history for the purpose of stealing, killing and destroying (John 10:10)

Men have superimposed Satan's attitudes and attributes onto God, believing it is God who is an arbitrary exacter who requires appeasement.

I know, I have gone over and beyond your question re Salvation.

 

[Angelina]

This thread was about burial vs. cremation. Please create another thread, as your posts are off-topic. Thank you

 

[quietthinker]

This thread was about burial vs. cremation. Please create another thread, as your posts are off-topic. Thank you

In the process of any conversation questions are asked and answers given the which inevitably deviate from the thread. It's the nature of conversation. This does not mean the thread is abandoned nor does it mean one has the right to sabotage a thread by maintaining a deviated course. If this is not understood, control becomes the M.O of interaction.

 

[Anchorite]

Firstly, the idea that 'spirit' is an entity seperate from the rest of our being is a pagan view. If we take this view onboard, all manner of secondary ideas are birthed....one of which is where it goes when you die.

If we ask, 'what spirit reigns in you'? don't we mean what is your attitude/ disposition....are you short tempered or gullible or does wisdom have a priority and so on.

God breathed his Spirit into the clay and it was energised....it became living ie, a living soul.
God didn't give us a soul as a seperate entity to our bodies anymore that he gave us a spirit as a seperate entity.

We are living souls animated by the spirit of life from God.....so to ask about burial or cremation on the basis of an erroneous view, makes the question irrelevant.

Jesus believed this view you call pagan.

Luke 23:46

And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, into Thy hands I commit My spirit.” And having said thus, He gave up the ghost.

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus believed this view you call pagan.

Luke 23:46

And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, into Thy hands I commit My spirit.” And having said thus, He gave up the ghost.

I would say that you believe that he believed that. This does not confirm he believed it.

 

[Anchorite]

I would say that you believe that he believed that. This does not confirm he believed it.

So Jesus says things, like “Father, into Thy hands I commit My spirit” that He doesn’t believe?

The body of Jesus was mangled and crucified, but His spirit was committed to the Father as He breathed His last breath.

 

[quietthinker]

So Jesus says things, like “Father, into Thy hands I commit My spirit” that He doesn’t believe?

The body of Jesus was mangled and crucified, but His spirit was committed to the Father as He breathed His last breath.

If we go down the line of your logic Anchorite, we must say that Jesus had a seperate entity called 'the spirit'. It also assumes he had another seperate entity called 'the soul'....and then of course there is his body.
This allows jumping all over the theological spectrum as to what goes where when one dies. It also denies that death is meant as the cessation of life. It plays right into the Pagan handbook.
.....however, if one is not familiar with the Pagan handbook, one is set up for one of the greatest deceptions dished out by the Serpent, ie 'you shall not surely die' (Genesis 3:4) ....in contrast to what God told them, 'in the day you eat of it you will surely die. (Genesis 2:17)

 

[Bob]

If we go down the line of your logic Anchorite, we must say that Jesus had a seperate entity called 'the spirit'. It also assumes he had another seperate entity called 'the soul'....and then of course there is his body.
This allows jumping all over the theological spectrum as to what goes where when one dies. It also denies that death is meant as the cessation of life. It plays right into the Pagan handbook.
.....however, if one is not familiar with the Pagan handbook, one is set up for one of the greatest deceptions dished out by the Serpent, ie 'you shall not surely die' (Genesis 3:4) ....in contrast to what God told them, 'in the day you eat of it you will surely die. (Genesis 2:17)

With apologies to Angelina, for whom I have much respect, this idea that the spirit/soul actually expires with the death of the body is far more intriguing. Please bear with us.

Here is John 11:
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Again, if Jesus truly is our Savior, what is Salvation? The traditional view is that judgement follows the body’s death, and we trust in Jesus to be our advocate. Help me understand your view.

(Aside: can information exist apart from a physical medium? For example, it is said we “discover” the great edifice that is mathematics: it exists independently of our knowledge of it. Is really Pagan to believe what we call our soul or spirit can exist independently of the body?)

Many blessings.

 

[quietthinker]

With apologies to Angelina, for whom I have much respect, this idea that the spirit/soul actually expires with the death of the body is far more intriguing. Please bear with us.

Here is John 11:
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Again, if Jesus truly is our Savior, what is Salvation? The traditional view is that judgement follows the body’s death, and we trust in Jesus to be our advocate. Help me understand your view.

(Aside: can information exist apart from a physical medium? For example, it is said we “discover” the great edifice that is mathematics: it exists independently of our knowledge of it. Is really Pagan to believe what we call our soul or spirit can exist independently of the body?)

Many blessings.

Bob, to save Angelina stress, you might like to initiate another thread and post these questions into it. Watcha say?....and of course post a link to it from here.

 

[Lambano]

Many cemeteries allow urns to be buried over top a grave. And there are headstones designed to store ashes.

This particular section of the cemetery has some strict limitations, like flat markers only. The older sections have some VERY ornate markers.

 

[CrowCross]

I once heard a preacher say....cremation is the excelerated return to dust plan.

 

[Wrangler]

What are your thoughts on this?

My thoughts are that burial was historically the way for 2 reasons.

1. There was plenty of unoccupied land.
2. Only known way to stop a body from smelling as it decayed. (Roasting over an open fire was considered disrespectful)

Now, land is rare, more expensive than the alternative and in the Western world, almost everyone is embalmed removing the smell issue. A couple of years ago I went back to Boston and went to the cemetery to visit my grandparents grave. I couldn't find them and ran out of time. Overall, it was a frustrating experience. Not sure what we gain nowadays from that ancient practice.

I've heard some Christians sects claim one cannot be resurrected if one is cremated. I don't believe that and find no Scriptural evidence to support that.

 

[Wrangler]

If we go down the line of your logic Anchorite, we must say that Jesus had a seperate entity called 'the spirit'. It also assumes he had another seperate entity called 'the soul'....and then of course there is his body.
This allows jumping all over the theological spectrum as to what goes where when one dies. It also denies that death is meant as the cessation of life.

I have no idea where you're coming from. We don't have a soul; we are a soul. This equation is helpful in understanding the relationship:
SOUL = BODY + SPIRIT

This is why equivalent expressions are when a boat sinks,

• All hands (bodies) were lost.
• All souls were lost.

You've asserted that this is Pagan but presented no evidence. @Anchorite, on the other hand, presented Biblical evidence that it is not only, not Pagan, it is what our Lord believed. Post # 26. Seems you hold the OT as a source and even THE Pagan Handbook. Is that true?

 

[Bob]

Bob, to save Angelina stress, you might like to initiate another thread and post these questions into it. Watcha say?....and of course post a link to it from here.

Ok, will do (later).