What does it mean to be "born again"?

[Armour of God]

Are you talking about around Pentecost for ancient Christians?

I'm talking about the belief of the early church, in the first few centuries, that born again relates to baptism.

As early as Paul. He believed in baptism

Romans 6:3-4
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

As early as Peter. He believed in baptism

Acts 2:38
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 Baptism occurs a lot in the book of Acts just as it occurs a lot in John chapter 3, immediately following Christs conversation with Nicodemus. Unfortunately you choose ignore that fact.

Why do you suppose the rest of John 3 is fixated on baptism? I've asked you this already but you have not answered.

Acts chapters 8, 10, 16 all have baptisms in them. Baptism by water AND spirit, as Jesus says, in one event.

That is my belief. It's one thats been around for thousands of years, believed by the earliest Christians in Paul and Peter and all the Christians of the first centuries and now by most Christians in the form of Catholics and Orthodox who take up the majority of Christians

 

[Rockerduck]

I'm talking about the belief of the early church, in the first few centuries, that born again relates to baptism.

As early as Paul. He believed in baptism

Romans 6:3-4
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

As early as Peter. He believed in baptism

Acts 2:38
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 Baptism occurs a lot in the book of Acts just as it occurs a lot in John chapter 3, immediately following Christs conversation with Nicodemus. Unfortunately you choose ignore that fact.

Why do you suppose the rest of John 3 is fixated on baptism? I've asked you this already but you have not answered.

Acts chapters 8, 10, 16 all have baptisms in them. Baptism by water AND spirit, as Jesus says, in one event.

That is my belief. It's one thats been around for thousands of years, believed by the earliest Christians in Paul and Peter and all the Christians of the first centuries and now by most Christians in the form of Catholics and Orthodox who take up the majority of Christians

Remember I told you about confusion. Romans 6:3-4 is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38 is water baptism.

 

[William Barton]

IMO:
Adam and Eve fellow-shipped with God, hard to imagine.

God's timing is not our timing (2Peter 3:8). We think days, months years, God thinks millennia.

o. First sign of the return of Jesus was the return of the nation of Israel.
o. Second sign will be rebuilding the Jewish temple.
o. Third sign will be return of Jesus with his angels (Revelation 19:11-21).

Maranatha (Hebrew מרנאתא) = "Come, O Lord."

"Born again" is described in John 3:3-21, New Testament. We are all born physically, but we lost our fellowship with God because the first man and woman sinned. It will be fixed, see Revelation chapters 21,22. First step is to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior, see John 6:37.

 

[JimKnox]

I'm talking about the belief of the early church, in the first few centuries, that born again relates to baptism.

As early as Paul. He believed in baptism

Romans 6:3-4
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

As early as Peter. He believed in baptism

Acts 2:38
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 Baptism occurs a lot in the book of Acts just as it occurs a lot in John chapter 3, immediately following Christs conversation with Nicodemus. Unfortunately you choose ignore that fact.

Why do you suppose the rest of John 3 is fixated on baptism? I've asked you this already but you have not answered.

Acts chapters 8, 10, 16 all have baptisms in them. Baptism by water AND spirit, as Jesus says, in one event.

That is my belief. It's one thats been around for thousands of years, believed by the earliest Christians in Paul and Peter and all the Christians of the first centuries and now by most Christians in the form of Catholics and Orthodox who take up the majority of Christians

There is no scripture for the assertions that baptism in water and baptism by the Spirit are one event.
Nor are there any Scripture that demonstrate that baptism is efficacious for imparting eternal life.

 

[Armour of God]

Remember I told you about confusion. Romans 6:3-4 is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38 is water baptism.

That's your confusion.
Baptism is of water and spirit.

And your still avoiding my question as to why the rest of John 3 is focused on baptism, immediately after the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus?

 

[Rockerduck]

That's your confusion.
Baptism is of water and spirit.

And your still avoiding my question as to why the rest of John 3 is focused on baptism, immediately after the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus?

Not mine. You can have your opinion though.

 

[Armour of God]

There is no scripture for the assertions that baptism in water and baptism by the Spirit are one event.

Acts2:38
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

Nor are there any Scripture that demonstrate that baptism is efficacious for imparting eternal life.

Romans 6:3-4
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Read those verses carefully.
I've shown your claims to be incorrect in the two passages of scripture I presented.
The first speaks of receiving the Holy Spirit through baptism in one event.
The second tells us that we will have new life through baptism.
There are more verses but these two are sufficient enough to refute your erroneous claims

God Bless

 

[Armour of God]

Not mine. You can have your opinion though.

Not my opinion.
Its in scripture which you choose to ignore
Baptism is of water and spirit

Why do you avoid my question?
It's becoming obvious why you do so.
The rest of John 3 is a clear indication that being born again involves baptism

You can have your opinion but your arguments are very weak.
Your not even able to answer a simple question.
That's why I believe the ancient interpretation, it's arguments are much stronger than this modern interpretation

 

[William Barton]

Anyone who is alive has been born once. Jesus said, "Unless one is born *anew* he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3, New Testament)

o. Man was created body, soul, spirit.
o. Body = form, a plant has a body.
o. Soul = intelligence, a dog has a soul.
o. Spirit = communion with God, a man/woman has a spirit.
o. Unfortunately our spirits currently are dead (no connection to God), since the first couple disobeyed God, thereby loosing their communion with God.

 

[JimKnox]

Acts2:38
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

Romans 6:3-4
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Read those verses carefully.
I've shown your claims to be incorrect in the two passages of scripture I presented.
The first speaks of receiving the Holy Spirit through baptism in one event.
The second tells us that we will have new life through baptism.
There are more verses but these two are sufficient enough to refute your erroneous claims

God Bless

I've read those verses, perhaps, more than 1000 times over these 46 years I've been saved, and they do not say what you say they say.

Have a better day.

 

[William Barton]

IMO:
o. In Romans 6:1-4 "baptism" is a ritual expressing "cleansing."

o. "Baptize" stems from Greek βαπτιζω = "to immerse," i.e. it is a ritual of cleansing by water (Matthew 28:19) that believers are directed to follow.

o Our cleansing of sin occurs by the sacrifice Jesus made (Isaiah 53:11).

o. Believers receive the Holy Spirit, who helps our spirit (Romans 8:26), which is a kind of cleansing/baptism.

o. God draws people to come to Himself (John 6:44).

 

[William Barton]

That's your confusion.
Baptism is of water and spirit.

And your still avoiding my question as to why the rest of John 3 is focused on baptism, immediately after the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus?

IMO:

To clarify the point here:

o English "baptize" stems from Greek βαπτιζω {baptizo) = "to immerse."

o Baptism is commanded for believers in the New Testament (Matthew 28, 19-20, Mark 16:15-16). It is a ritual of cleansing that we are expected to follow.

"Nicodemus" (Hebrew נקדימון) originates from Greek:

vikη = victory
δημος = common people

I.e. "Victory of the common people."

Nicodemus recognized that the signs and miracles that Jesus performed made him a candidate for the Messiah ("chosen one"). I.e. in Isaiah 35:5-7:

o. Blind and deaf healed
o Lame walk
o. Waters break forth in the wilderness (water not usually plentiful)
o. Burning sand will become a pool of water

Jesus was claiming to be the Son of God, which in normal situations would be severe blasphemy. But he did all those things, hence the people queried the Pharisees,

"When Messiah comes will he do MORE than this man?" (John 7:31)

Jesus did go to John the Baptist and was baptized, to set an example. John knew who he was (see Matthew 3:13-6) and John queried, "I need to be baptised by you, and do you come to me??"

But John indeed was the appointed one to introduce the Messiah, and Jesus (God made man) set the example for men by being baptised by John.

As you note believers are afforded ("allowed") and cleansed by the Spirit of God (John 14:16), who cleanses us. We "more than conquer" because Jesus paid all the debt (Romans 8:37).

 

[MostlyConfused]

Why would Jesus specify that we have to be "born of the Spirit AND the Flesh" to enter the Kingdom of God? Isn't being born of the flesh superfluous? If not counter-productive to entering the Kingdom of God?

Is it possible He was referring to the "living water" He spoke of to the woman at the well?

 

[Armour of God]

I've read those verses, perhaps, more than 1000 times over these 46 years I've been saved, and they do not say what you say they say.

Have a better day.

Oh your saved. Your already in heaven despite being here on earth.

They say exactly what they say.
You just choose to ignore them because they are in opposition to your belief.

Mark 1:8
8 I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

All the synoptic gospels say the same thing
You cannot explain this any other way
Baptism is with water and spirit

Mark 9:10
9 At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove

 

[William Barton]

Is it possible He was referring to the "living water" He spoke of to the woman at the well?

IMO:

"Born of water" in this context indicates "reborn by spiritual cleansing, to negate the normal birth of "flesh."

We are "born" as sinners, because our ancestor Adam sinned (Romans 5:12).

 

[MostlyConfused]

IMO:

"Born of water" in this context indicates "reborn by spiritual cleansing, to negate the normal birth of flesh."

We are *born* sinners, because our ancestor Adam sinned (Romans 5:12).

That’s an okay way of looking at it. It seems to align with something Jesus said, you are clean now from the word I spoke to you. Didn’t look that up, could have wording slightly wrong.

 

[Hillsage]

IMO:

"Born of water" in this context indicates "reborn by spiritual cleansing, to negate the normal birth of flesh."

We are *born* sinners, because our ancestor Adam sinned (Romans 5:12).

Adam wasn't born a sinner. He became a sinner after he sinned.
A baby isn't born a sinner. He is born with the fallen flesh nature of Adam. But he isn't a sinner until after the first sin.

Is it possible He was referring to the "living water" He spoke of to the woman at the well?

Being 'born again' wasn't even possible until after the cross, death AND resurrection of Jesus.

 

[JimKnox]

Oh your saved. Your already in heaven despite being here on earth.

They say exactly what they say.
You just choose to ignore them because they are in opposition to your belief.

Mark 1:8
8 I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

All the synoptic gospels say the same thing
You cannot explain this any other way
Baptism is with water and spirit

Mark 9:10
9 At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove

I might take you a little more seriously if you used grammar better but since you can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're", maybe I'll relegate you to the unlearned people Peter spoke of : 2 Peter 3:16.

 

[Armour of God]

In order to adhere to the modern day belief of being born again, people must twist the definitions of simple words such as water, and ignore or dismiss large amounts of scripture that refutes their view.

It is quite obvious that the ancient interpretation of born again is correct.
Being born again certainly does involve baptism of water and spirit as it is clearly written about throughout the whole of John 3.

 

[William Barton]

Hillsage noted:
<Adam wasn't born a sinner>

Bible noted:
<"in Adam all sinned" (Romans 5:12)

The question is, do we sin because we are sinners, or do we become sinners when we sin.

God ordains everything, including human behavior: "for who resists his will" (Romans 9:19)

Check out also Psalm 51:3.