A Biblical Lesson on Spiritual Discernment

[Truth7t7]

Like futurists, they look for another coming after the resurrection instead of recognizing that Christ literally left the earth, went into the grave, prepared a place for us, and returned in all power and glory through His resurrection.

Your symbolic representation of the Lord's past resurrection, and it replacing his future, literal, visible, second coming in the heavens is 100% "Wrong", your claim is in complete denial of the future, literal event seen below, that will take place on this earth, with literal human eyes that will witness the future event

Jesus Is The Lord

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[IndianaRob]

Your symbolic representation of the Lord's past resurrection, and it replacing his future, literal, visible, second coming in the heavens is 100% "Wrong", your claim is in complete denial of the future, literal event seen below, that will take place on this earth, with literal human eyes that will witness the future event

Jesus Is The Lord

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You're calling my view symbolic, but it's the exact opposite. I'm saying this all really happened. Jesus really left this world, really went into the grave, really beat death, and really came back in power and glory when He rose. That's history, not a symbol. I'm not spiritualizing anything, I'm pointing at a real event.

Look at what John says happened at the cross:
"They shall look on him whom they pierced." (John 19:37)

John takes that prophecy from Zechariah and says flat out - this got fulfilled, right here, at the cross. Done. Not "someday." It happened right then at the cross.

And that same "pierced" line shows up again in Revelation 1:7, tied to Jesus "coming with clouds." So if John already says the piercing part came true back then, that coming isn't parked way off in our future, it's tied to when it actually happened.

Do you agree that "They shall look on him whom they pierced." happened at the cross?

 

[Truth7t7]

You're calling my view symbolic, but it's the exact opposite. I'm saying this all really happened. Jesus really left this world, really went into the grave, really beat death, and really came back in power and glory when He rose. That's history, not a symbol. I'm not spiritualizing anything, I'm pointing at a real event.

Look at what John says happened at the cross:
"They shall look on him whom they pierced." (John 19:37)

John takes that prophecy from Zechariah and says flat out - this got fulfilled, right here, at the cross. Done. Not "someday." It happened right then at the cross.

And that same "pierced" line shows up again in Revelation 1:7, tied to Jesus "coming with clouds." So if John already says the piercing part came true back then, that coming isn't parked way off in our future, it's tied to when it actually happened.

Do you agree that "They shall look on him whom they pierced." happened at the cross?

Is Matthew 24:29:31 going to be a literal future event on this earth, please explain?

When will it take place? Is it symbolic? Has it already taken place?

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[IndianaRob]

Is Matthew 24:29:31 going to be a literal future event on this earth, please explain?

When will it take place? Is it symbolic? Has it already taken place?

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Of course I do. But the question I asked you was - Do you agree that "They shall look on him whom they pierced." happened at the cross?

 

[Truth7t7]

Of course I do. But the question I asked you was - Do you agree that "They shall look on him whom they pierced." happened at the cross?

The words "They Shall Look On Him Whom They Pierced" is a future event taking place at the Lords second coming thats unfulfilled, simple, clear, and before your eyes

(ALL BELOW ARE THE SAME FUTURE EVENT, UNFULFILLED)

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Zechariah 12:10KJV
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

[Truth7t7]

And that same "pierced" line shows up again in Revelation 1:7, tied to Jesus "coming with clouds." So if John already says the piercing part came true back then, that coming isn't parked way off in our future, it's tied to when it actually happened.

Clearly answered in post #445 above

Once again, your trying to do away with the Lord's, future, literal, visible, second coming in the clouds in heaven with the "False Claim" quoted below

Your repeated claims denying a future literal, visible, second coming of Jesus in the clouds of heaven is putting you in the (Full Preterist Camp)

Quote: IndianaRob
"That coming isn't parked way off in our future, its tied to when it happened"

 

[Truth7t7]

The timeline points not only to re-building, but also to the advent of Christ coming to earth in mortal, human flesh.

Your statement strongly suggest that Jesus will walk upon this earth once again in mortal human flesh?

Jesus Is The Lord

Sound The Alarm!

Many claim Jesus will literally return and be "On This Earth", this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[IndianaRob]

The words "They Shall Look On Him Whom They Pierced" is a future event taking place at the Lords second coming thats unfulfilled, simple, clear, and before your eyes

(ALL BELOW ARE THE SAME FUTURE EVENT, UNFULFILLED)

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Zechariah 12:10KJV
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

I can’t go with that interpretation because John said Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled at the cross.

 

[rwb]

Your statement strongly suggest that Jesus will walk upon this earth once again in mortal human flesh?

Not "once again". The prophesy points to the first advent the prophets of old foretell that a time was coming when Messiah the Prince would come to save His people. When He came all the prophets regarding Him foretell, would then come to pass. When Christ returns for His people, He won't be on this earth, but to gather from this earth all who belong to Him. Then Christ and His people shall live immortally upon the new earth forevermore.

 

[rwb]

Of course I do. But the question I asked you was - Do you agree that "They shall look on him whom they pierced." happened at the cross?

This is interesting IndianaRob. I hadn't really considered it before, but I think you have a point. Zechariah's prophesy does speak of the coming Messiah, and those who were alive in those days when the Lord walked upon the earth, did look upon whom they pierced, and His disciples did mourn for Him. This is also the day/age/time when Christ ushered in the Kingdom of God and sent His disciples unto all the nations of the earth with the Gospel of Jesus Christ come to save whosoever would believe. It is through hearing the Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ that man is now being judged. Judged for damnation (destroyed) when remaining in unbelief or judged righteous (eternal life) when they believe by the spirit of grace and of supplications given them by God. The words spoken by Christ prove Zechariah's prophesy is true because Christ says it shall cause division even within families, some will believe according to grace through faith, and others remain in darkness and unbelief to the damnation of their souls.

Zechariah 12:9-14 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

Luke 12:53 (KJV) The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

The time will come when Christ also comes again just as it is written, and every eye still alive upon this earth when He shall come again will physically see Him come with clouds. Even those who crucified Him will see Him after He comes again. But since they are long ago physically dead, they too shall see Him when He calls the dead from the grave to stand before Him at the great white throne judgment (Rev. 20:11-15). At that time there will be great weeping and sorrow because of Him.

Revelation 1:7 (KJV) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[IndianaRob]

This is interesting IndianaRob. I hadn't really considered it before, but I think you have a point. Zechariah's prophesy does speak of the coming Messiah, and those who were alive in those days when the Lord walked upon the earth, did look upon whom they pierced, and His disciples did mourn for Him. This is also the day/age/time when Christ ushered in the Kingdom of God and sent His disciples unto all the nations of the earth with the Gospel of Jesus Christ come to save whosoever would believe. It is through hearing the Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ that man is now being judged. Judged for damnation (destroyed) when remaining in unbelief or judged righteous (eternal life) when they believe by the spirit of grace and of supplications given them by God. The words spoken by Christ prove Zechariah's prophesy is true because Christ says it shall cause division even within families, some will believe according to grace through faith, and others remain in darkness and unbelief to the damnation of their souls.

Zechariah 12:9-14 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

Luke 12:53 (KJV) The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

The time will come when Christ also comes again just as it is written, and every eye still alive upon this earth when He shall come again will physically see Him come with clouds. Even those who crucified Him will see Him after He comes again. But since they are long ago physically dead, they too shall see Him when He calls the dead from the grave to stand before Him at the great white throne judgment (Rev. 20:11-15). At that time there will be great weeping and sorrow because of Him.

Revelation 1:7 (KJV) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Since John said Zechariah was fulfilled at the cross, what makes you think there will be another fulfillment in the future?

 

[rwb]

Since John said Zechariah was fulfilled at the cross, what makes you think there will be another fulfillment in the future?

There must be a second coming of Christ to gather whosoever from among mankind has been born again. Christ won't be returning to this earth to establish physically the Kingdom of God here. It is when Christ comes again that believers are changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible body of flesh given life through our spirit that shall return with Christ. Since fire from heaven shall come down to destroy everything living upon this earth, Christ calls His own to meet Him in the air until the wrath of God that shall come will be finished. Then all things shall be made new again, a new heaven and a new earth where all who are with Him shall be with Him forevermore without sin and never to die again.

Hebrews 9:28 (KJV) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Acts 1:10-11 (KJV) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 

[IndianaRob]

There must be a second coming of Christ to gather whosoever from among mankind has been born again. Christ won't be returning to this earth to establish physically the Kingdom of God here. It is when Christ comes again that believers are changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible body of flesh given life through our spirit that shall return with Christ. Since fire from heaven shall come down to destroy everything living upon this earth, Christ calls His own to meet Him in the air until the wrath of God that shall come will be finished. Then all things shall be made new again, a new heaven and a new earth where all who are with Him shall be with Him forevermore without sin and never to die again.

Hebrews 9:28 (KJV) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

I think you're coming from a futurist view, so I understand why you'd read Hebrews 9:28 as the second coming. I see it differently though. I take that verse as Christ appearing to the believer when it's their time to leave this world, coming for them at death.

Whether or not you believe Christ comes for the believer, I'm sure you'd agree that we'll see Jesus when we die.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Can't believe you get away with your foul actions and words on this board, like running around calling posters outright liars, not to mention your many other written actions and words, and you stand "Alone" with my claims, there's nobody on this board like you, the truth

When people lie, as you did, I call them liars. It's too bad that you think it's okay to lie. You should repent of your lies instead of whining about me calling it out.

 

[rwb]

I think you're coming from a futurist view, so I understand why you'd read Hebrews 9:28 as the second coming. I see it differently though. I take that verse as Christ appearing to the believer when it's their time to leave this world, coming for them at death.

Whether or not you believe Christ comes for the believer, I'm sure you'd agree that we'll see Jesus when we die.

Those of Old had a futurist view that all that is written shall be fulfilled when the promised Messiah the Prince would physically come. My view is only futurist, pertaining to the last day when Christ shall come again the second time. During this time, we have been in since the coming of Christ in human flesh, all the prophets foretell would come to pass within this time/age/day have been, are being, and shall finally be completely fulfilled when Christ comes again.

I believe Scripture tells us that when we physically die Christ does not come to us, we go to be with Him in heaven a spiritual body. That is not when our physical body shall be raised and changed. Our mortal body of flesh will not be raised or resurrected immortal and incorruptible until Christ comes again.

I believe the life we receive from Christ is eternal, and even physical death cannot take away the eternal life we possess when we have been born again. For that reason, Scripture shows us that when our body of flesh dies, our spirit returns to God who gave it. Also, Paul indicates that when we are absent from our physical body, we shall be present with the Lord. Paul tells us that man possesses both natural body and spiritual body, and that when our natural body is dead it is raised a spiritual body. That's why Paul looked forward to the day when he would be absent from his mortal body of flesh and death, to be with the Lord in heaven as spiritual body. Only that which is spiritually alive through Christ's Spirit in us can ascend to heaven after physical death because our eternal life we receive when we have been born again exists through spirit and not flesh & blood. Since flesh & blood (mortal man) cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, our flesh must wait in death until the last day when our body too will be changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

1 Corinthians 15:44-50 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

2 Corinthians 5:6-9 (KJV) Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

Philippians 1:20-24 (KJV) According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL

Calling it a lie doesn’t change the fact that your interpretation adopts a fundamental preterist framework.

No, it does not. If that was the case, I'd agree with them that all, or at least most of the Olivet Discourse and the book of Revelation were fulfilled by 70 AD, but I do not. So, you have no clue as to what you're talking about, as usual.

You may not identify yourself as a preterist, but you’ve embraced its central interpretation of the Olivet Discourse by dividing Christ’s prophecy between A.D. 70 and a future Second Coming. That’s the very hermeneutic preterism popularized.

Nonsense! I do not claim that Jesus came in 70 AD like they do. My beliefs are very far from what they believe. Should I call you a preterist since you believe Jesus fulfilled the prophecies about His first coming?

The real issue isn’t what label you wear—it’s the source of your interpretation.

The source of my interpretation is the Bible.

Christ was speaking prophetically about His New Testament Church throughout this present age, culminating in His return at the end of the age.

He did speak of that, yes, but He also spoke of things related to the temple buildings standing at that time being destroyed. What spawned the Olivet Discourse in the first place was Jesus telling the disciples that the temple buildings would be destroyed, yet you think He wouldn't be interested in giving any details at all about that. You deny that He talked about that at all! LOL! And, you are supposed to teach anyone about spiritual discernment? Think again!

By forcing much of Matthew 24 into A.D. 70 with Titus and crying mothers with child, you are borrowing a preterist lens while denying that’s what you’re doing. Rejecting the label doesn’t erase your flawed interpretive method.

Wrong. You, a person so lacking in spiritual discernment that you deny the existence of personal beings called the devil/Satan, demons and angels, are trying to tell me how I should interpret the Olivet Discourse. I do not take you seriously at all. You have zero credibility.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But you are defending WPM who says it is Titus!

Will you, for once, read what I actually say? Take your time for once and pay attention to what is actually being said. I'm saying that view is viable because of how Hebrew grammar works.

If you don't want to be linked with him, stop defending the error!

I'm being fair to that particular view. It doesn't require believing that verse 27 has to be in reference to Titus no matter how much you try to say otherwise. And he doesn't believe it refers to Titus, he believes it refers to Jesus, which we both agree that it does.

In this passage of Daniel 9 there is no mention of any other Messiah, prince or he that is NOT Christ!

I agree with that, but that is besides the point I'm making. It's the people of the prince that are in focus in terms of who would destroy the city and the sanctuary, so the last individual focused on is the Messiah in verse 26. I see that as a legitimate way of looking at the grammar and of understanding who verse 27 is referring to. What I don't believe is legitimate is to insist that the grammar demands that verse 27 is pointing to the reference of the prince to come rather than to the reference of the Messiah because Hebrew grammar allows for either possibility. But, because you are so stubborn, you're not willing to even address that.

Than why are you defending someone who does say that?

Because that view allows for verse 27 to be referring to Jesus, as he believes is the case. So, I don't see any reason to make a big deal out of how he interprets verse 26 when it doesn't demand that he interpret the "he" in verse 27 as Titus.

I quoted him, you can read it for yourself. If WPM is not saying Titus is 'he' in vs 27, am I to understand that he is saying Titus is Messiah, or the prince of the people?

Wow! Are you being serious here? Do you seriously think that WPM believes that Titus is the "he" in verse 27? Of course that is not the case. He believes that Jesus is the "he" in verse 27 and has said so many times.

If Titus is the prince of the people that too does not come from the text but has to be read into the text from extrabiblical sources which is the only way the Preterit can force their doctrine INTO the Bible.

LOL.

 

[rwb]

Will you, for once, read what I actually say? Take your time for once and pay attention to what is actually being said. I'm saying that view is viable because of how Hebrew grammar works.


I'm being fair to that particular view. It doesn't require believing that verse 27 has to be in reference to Titus no matter how much you try to say otherwise. And he doesn't believe it refers to Titus, he believes it refers to Jesus, which we both agree that it does.


I agree with that, but that is besides the point I'm making. It's the people of the prince that are in focus in terms of who would destroy the city and the sanctuary, so the last individual focused on is the Messiah in verse 26. I see that as a legitimate way of looking at the grammar and of understanding who verse 27 is referring to. What I don't believe is legitimate is to insist that the grammar demands that verse 27 is pointing to the reference of the prince to come rather than to the reference of the Messiah because Hebrew grammar allows for either possibility. But, because you are so stubborn, you're not willing to even address that.


Because that view allows for verse 27 to be referring to Jesus, as he believes is the case. So, I don't see any reason to make a big deal out of how he interprets verse 26 when it doesn't demand that he interpret the "he" in verse 27 as Titus.


Wow! Are you being serious here? Do you seriously think that WPM believes that Titus is the "he" in verse 27? Of course that is not the case. He believes that Jesus is the "he" in verse 27 and has said so many times.


LOL.

In this passage of Daniel 9 there is no mention of any other Messiah, prince or he that is NOT Christ! Messiah the Prince is Christ, the prince of the people is Christ, he who shall confirm the covenant is Christ! Stop defending Preterits by saying a viable pov is anyone other than Christ in this passage of Daniel 9.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's not the Scriptures themselves, only how you seem to make the coming of Christ only about the New Testament Church while leaving out how Christ came first to the physical Jewish people. While coming with the Kingdom of God from heaven that all man (Jew & Gentile of faith) might enter therein through Christ's Spirit, is of course the main purpose for His coming. But Christ also came physically to deal with the physical nation of Old. I believe that's why the prophesy cannot only be spiritually interpreted but also involves physical interpretation of the physical things of Old. For instance, the city and temple while truly pointing to the spiritual Jerusalem and spiritual Temple were still physical things that were physically as well as spiritually destroyed with His coming.

This is what I believe as well, but somehow it makes me a preterist and you're not. What gives? Unbelievable.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The AI explained the history of KJV in great detail. Did you all not read what it said? The AI clearly said one cannot use the 1611 edition to prove anything one way or the other. Therefore, this is a strawman based on what the AI said. I'm simply using an AI as a tool for researching purposes. No different than using Google as a tool for researching purposes, for example. Obviously, the AI is not coming up with these things on it's own. It is from data it has gathered from multiple sources.

Once again, it is Preterists that have something to gain by having the prince that shall come to mean Christ. That way it agrees with their interpretation of the coming meant in Matthew 24:30. Shall come = a coming---Matthew 24:30 = a coming. Therefore, per their view, they are correct to interpret Matthew 24:30 in the manner they do since it agrees with Daniel 9:26 and that coming, and that Daniel 9:26 pertains to 70 AD, the same way Matthew 24:30 pertains to 70 AD. Not according to me, but according to Preterists. The rest of us, even @WPM, do not remotely align with Preterists interpretation of Matthew 24:30. And neither do you.

So why are you aligning with them here? You are contradicting how you interpret Matthew 24:30 via how you are interpreting Daniel 9:26. Daniel 9:26 plainly requires a prince that shall come sometime later on after the Messiah is cut off earlier. Preterists feel this can be explained, thus their interpretation of Matthew 24:15-30. Though, IMO, they are wrong, but at least they are trying to be consistent throughout. Unlike you and some others in this thread that have no answer for what coming of Christ took place after He ascended and before He returns? The reason you have no answer is simple. It is because that prince is not meaning Christ to begin with. Thus problem solved. And now you are no longer contradicting your interpretation of Matthew 24:30 no matter who you take the prince to be, as long as you don't take the prince to be meaning Christ.

You have this false idea that the reference to the prince that shall come somehow is saying that the prince that shall come would come some time after the Messiah comes. That is not at all what the text indicates. It simply refers to a prince that would come some time in the future from the time the prophecy was given. That's why it can be interpreted as referring to Messiah the prince Jesus as coming in the future without assuming it's talking about Him coming in 70 AD.