The Bible doesn't instruct to pray to Jesus

[Wick Stick]

Wasn't it translated BC?

Yes, but let me justify myself.

While the making of Greek translations of the Scriptures apparently started in the 3rd or 2nd century BC, it continued for close to a thousand years. Most of those translations were made by Christians. The early church adopted the Greek as their Bible of choice.

By contrast, the Pharisees rejected all-things-Greek. That actually started well before the 1st century. Pharisee means "separate," and the sect was started with the idea of rejecting Hellenization and maintaining a separate cultural identity.

So... even the earliest copies were largely made by Jews who were proto-Christian, if that makes any sense.

 

[marks]

So... even the earliest copies were largely made by Jews who were proto-Christian, if that makes any sense.

I think I understand what you are saying here.

My thinking is that the LXX was translated before the meaning of the Hebrew was lost from disuse, so that we could know which way the Hebrew should be understood.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

I make no such denial that the Bible does not tell us specifically to pray to Jesus, in such words.

Well, that’s what this thread is about - the Bible does not tell us specifically to pray to Jesus, in such words. The fact that you change the topic reveals your agenda.

There are only examples of people praying to Jesus.

Why limit the expansion from the Bible not specifically instructing us to pray to Jesus, in such words to ALL the examples of ALL the people who prayed to people.

Well, if you accept word play, “demonstrations” of “prayer,” then many people throughout Scripture were “prayed” to:

• Eve to Adam
• Seth to Noah
• Sara to Abraham and Abraham to Sara.
• Abraham to Lot
• Moses to Pharoah
• Stepfather to Moses
• Abigal to David
• Bethsheba to David
• Joseph of Arimethia to Pilate
• Jesus to the crowds (when asking, praying what does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul)
• Jeremiah‘s mother to the high priest
• Jonah to the men on the boat

Doesn’t prove anything.

 

[marks]

Well, that’s what this thread is about - the Bible does not tell us specifically to pray to Jesus, in such words. The fact that you change the topic reveals your agenda.



Why limit the expansion from the Bible not specifically instructing us to pray to Jesus, in such words to ALL the examples of ALL the people who prayed to people.

My only agenda is reality. I've already agreed with you but I guess it's not enough unless you can hear your POV come out of my mouth and that's not going to happen.

It's just the way it is.

The thing is . . . we're not even talking about the same thing. I pray to my God the Lord Jesus Christ. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, you don't hold that Jesus Christ is our Creator God, is that right?

 

[Wrangler]

The thing is . . . we're not even talking about the same thing.

That’s right. I’m talking about this threads topic - what the Bible instructs us regarding who to pray to - and you are not.

 

[Runningman]

Odd that this is not everyone’s position. I follow Jesus but do t do what he says regarding to whom I Should pray. How does that make sense?

No argument from me. If Jesus was standing right next to us having a talk, it wouldn't be a prayer. So it doesn't really make sense that it becomes a prayer when he changes geographical locations. Someone said earlier "because Jesus is in heaven" then that it is a criteria for praying to Jesus. The Bible doesn't word it that way.

 

[Lambano]

Do you believe that Jesus is God?

No I do not.

And that has EVERYTHING to do with why you don't want to call conversations with the Son of God "praying".

If you had just said so at the beginning, we probably could've saved a lot of back-and-forth.

 

[Armour of God]

What is an instruction? An instruction may be defined as a direction or an explanation to enable one to know what to do, or to do something. An instruction can be a command, a piece of advice, training, an explanation, or a procedure.

What is the only Biblical instruction on how to pray in the Bible?

Jesus instructed his disciples how to pray:

Matthew 6​

6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.​

7And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.​

9So then, this is how you should pray:​

‘Our Father in heaven,​

hallowed be Your name.​

Aside from what is in Matthew 6:6,9 there are no other instructions on who to pray to in the Bible. The only instruction on prayer in the Bible is to the Father.

Can it be argued that Jesus was prayed to in the Bible? It's possible to argue that, but does it ever teach, instruct, or command Christians to pray to anyone other than the Father? No.

I follow the instruction given by Christ to pray to our Father.
We see that Jesus Himself prayed to our Father in the garden of Gethsemane.

 

[Stumpmaster]

What is an instruction?

By way of example, here are two New Testament instructions -

Heb 4:14-16 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. (15) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (16) Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[Wrangler]

And that has EVERYTHING to do with why you don't want to call conversations with the Son of God "praying".

If you had just said so at the beginning, we probably could've saved a lot of back-and-forth.

Instead of relying on "perspective" based on what people want (or don't want) why not just rely on the actual text? The Bible consists of 66 books, which contain a lot of words; they say somethings and they don't say other things. Let's start (and end) there.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus only prayed to His Father in heaven. I agree! Why would Jesus pray to Himself?

Great rhetorical question. The answer is he didn't and, of course, he didn't teach his followers to pray to him either.

Yes, I agree we are to imitate Jesus. So, what you are saying then is to do only what He did, but not do what He said? He said-
Ask Me anything in my name and I will do it. Jo 14:14
The oldest manuscripts support ME. but as I said take it out like KJV does- it still begs the question- Does Jesus answer prayers? He said. He does. Are you saying I should only pray to the Father and He will contact Jesus and tells Him to answer me? What is that about..?
For comparison sake- see translations here. I did not know you were KJV only. What do you do with the Comma?

John 14:14 Parallel: If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Even if "me" was in the original, it doesn't follow that this is a teaching regarding prayer. This applies to that context, not the instructions he left for believers to follow.

Later, Jesus said don't ask him for anything, but rather to ask the Father in his name.

John 16
23In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.

I have given you other examples. You wont see what you don't want to see. Your mind is made up. I don't know how to help a man who refuses that Jesus had a heavenly pre-existence. He said, I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN. John 6:38 and yet you deny His words!
John the Baptist also said it--
John 3-
30“He must increase, but I must decrease.
31“He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32“What He has seen and heard, of that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. 33“He who has received His testimony has set his seal to this, that God is true. 34“For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure. 35“The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. 36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

This doesn't really speak anything about praying to Jesus. I believe at this point we have completely ruled out the concept of "praying to Jesus" as a teaching from Scripture.

The preceding verse to John 14:14 reveal something important that you are ignoring- Not only does Jesus again say He answers prayers but that in The Son the Father is glorified. wow.
13“Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14;13

That applies to the context while they were still together in Israel, but before Jesus went to heaven, one of his final instructions regarding this topic was to not ask him for anything, but ask the Father instead.

John 16
23In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.

 

[Runningman]

And that has EVERYTHING to do with why you don't want to call conversations with the Son of God "praying".

If you had just said so at the beginning, we probably could've saved a lot of back-and-forth.

No it doesn't have everything to do with the OP. Just pointing out that there are no instructions to pray to Jesus in the Bible. So far, no one has proven that wrong.

 

[Runningman]

I follow the instruction given by Christ to pray to our Father.
We see that Jesus Himself prayed to our Father in the garden of Gethsemane.

Follow Jesus' instruction and his examples is the way to get prayer right. Agreed!

 

[Runningman]

By way of example, here are two New Testament instructions -

Heb 4:14-16 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. (15) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (16) Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Please point out how this is an instruction to pray to Jesus. I am quite sure that there are no instructions to pray to priests or high priests in the Bible.

 

[Runningman]

Side question, if there are no clear, explicit, "Pray to Jesus" verses (so far I haven't seen any) then are there any examples of Jesus answering prayers, responding, forgiving sins, or otherwise, after he was taken to heaven and commanded to sit temporarily at God's right hand?

 

[Wrangler]

Just pointing out that there are no instructions to pray to Jesus in the Bible.

I found this thread analogous to an uproar over saying Miami is south of Boston with people be like; yabut some maps demonstrate Miami is north of Boston - while ignoring all the other cities of the world that are upside down when you flip the map's orientation.

Comically, they accuse you of having an agenda. They have no agenda whatsoever!

 

[Runningman]

I found this thread analogous to an uproar over saying Miami is south of Boston with people be like; yabut some maps demonstrate Miami is north of Boston - while ignoring all the other cities of the world that are upside down when you flip the map's orientation.

Comically, they accuse you of having an agenda. They have no agenda whatsoever!

Good analogy. I believe there is a reason for everything. While it's true I don't believe Jesus is God, I just see that people are often not following the Biblical example and instruction regarding prayer. I expected different perspectives and accusations, that's fine, I am used to seeing that on message boards.

 

[ProDeo]

What is an instruction? An instruction may be defined as a direction or an explanation to enable one to know what to do, or to do something. An instruction can be a command, a piece of advice, training, an explanation, or a procedure.

What is the only Biblical instruction on how to pray in the Bible?

Jesus instructed his disciples how to pray:

Matthew 6​

6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.​

7And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.​

9So then, this is how you should pray:​

‘Our Father in heaven,​

hallowed be Your name.​

Aside from what is in Matthew 6:6,9 there are no other instructions on who to pray to in the Bible. The only instruction on prayer in the Bible is to the Father.

Can it be argued that Jesus was prayed to in the Bible? It's possible to argue that, but does it ever teach, instruct, or command Christians to pray to anyone other than the Father? No.

Classic denial Jesus was God in the flesh @Runningman

Scripture :

John 14:13 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

John 16:23 In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.
John 16:24 Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

 

[Runningman]

Classic denial Jesus was God in the flesh @Runningman

Scripture :

John 14:13 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

John 16:23 In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you.
John 16:24 Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

John 16:23,24 supersedes John 14:13,14 in the biblical timeline, i.e., ask nothing of me, ask the Father.

 

[Justified]

John 16:23,24 supersedes John 14:13,14 in the biblical timeline, i.e., ask nothing of me, ask the Father.

What does that prove?