Revelation chapter 11 questions

[TribulationSigns]

The Two Witnesses

Rev 11:1 Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

First question, which Temple is God talking about, the temple of Salomon which was destroyed in AD70, or is it a future temple yet to be build. And if the latter is true how can God call that temple the temple of God because God does not longer live in a temple but in the hearts of His children. So I think chapter 11 is talking about a situation before AD70.

Prodeo, Revelation 11 has NOTHING to do with 70AD temple nor the so-call physical future temple.

John is told to rise and measure the Temple, the Altar, and those that worship therein. In other words, show the true dimensions of the true Christ, the Altar (signifying the atonement), and His people therein. It is synonymous with declaring or revealing God, His sacrifice, and His children. Let them measure up to the prescribed dimensions that God has set forth, or let them repent that they do not. Let the people examine themselves (2nd Corinthians 13:5) by the form of this house.

The true temple is revealed in verse nineteen of this chapter, after the final trumpet sounds. We read there that the Temple was opened in heaven, and there was seen the ark of the Covenant. This is the Temple John is to measure the pattern thereof that he may prophesy or show it again to the people. A righteous Temple which resides in heaven, not on earth, is what He has seen, and should show.

The Lord is the Temple, we (believers) are those who worship therein, and Christ is He who was sacrificed upon the altar to make this true worship possible. The Old testament sacrifices upon the altar were a 'type' of Christ's atonement. Hence, the measurement has a relationship to the death and resurrection of Christ, and to God the true builder. Those who worship therein are part of that temple through Christ and are often spoken of as the building stones in that Temple. The illustration being that God is showing us it's 'true' dimensions which can only be realized in Christ.

Colossians 3:1-2

• "If ye then be risen [sunegeiro] with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
• Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth."

This word risen [sunegeiro] is the two words [sun], meaning together or in union, and of course this very same word [egeiro], meaning to rise up. i.e., we are risen together with Christ, that we set our affections not on earthly temples in worldly cities below, but on the heavenly tabernacle in heaven in the Jerusalem from above. It is the Holy city that comes not with observation or that is observable as being in a specific location in the middle east, but which is Christ in us. Rise up and measure this Holy Temple, and all that is therein, and test ourselves to make sure we truly conform to this image and this house.

So John "rise" up and measure the true temple of God. Measure or take an exact estimate of the true temple, of the altar, and of all the worshippers therein. See if they measure up to the form or image of Christ. See if they really are a habitation of God, or are conforming to the image of the beast. Selah!

John was told only to measure the true dimensions. In other words, those who are rise in Christ can be measured! Measure like a rod means to illustrate it is the Word of God which defines the true measurements of the Holy Temple, and that is for the CORRECTION and COMFORT of God's chosen people. Like the rod of God's mouth (Isaiah 11:4) symbolizing His Word, the 'reed like unto a rod' that is given John to measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein, symbolize His Word. It is the rule or the yardstick against which all houses and doctrines may be tested for true-ness by God's people. It is a rod of measurement, correction and exhortation.

We, Elect, are rise up and are measure up in the workds of righteousness of Christ. Now those who are in the court are NOT measured. They stand without or outside the temple in the wide court, being decevied that they are a part of the true body of Christ but they are not truly saved. They are the professed Christians. In the time of the end, right prior to Second Coming, the Gentiles (symbolically heathen, the false prophets and christs) will come into the court and deceive them as a judgment of God for unfaithfulness.
We, the Elect, are raised up and measured according to the righteousness of Christ. However, those who are in the outer court are not measured. They stand outside the temple, in the broad court, believing they are part of the true body of Christ, but they are not truly saved. They represent the professing Christians who outwardly identify with Christianity but have not been spiritually redeemed.

At the time of the end, just before the Second Coming, the Gentiles (symbolically representing the heathen, false prophets, and false christs) will enter the outer court and deceive them as God’s judgment for their unfaithfulness.

This is the message God is revealing. He is not speaking about a physical temple being rebuilt in the Middle East. The context of Revelation 11, concerning the Two Witnesses, points to the spiritual temple—the true people of God. The Two Witnesses represent the Elect, the chosen believers who receive power through the Holy Spirit to proclaim the Gospel until all of God’s Elect have been sealed and secured (Revelation 7:1–4).

Only after the Elect are sealed can the beast be revealed. During the Great Tribulation, the army of false prophets and false christs will come against the “Great City,” symbolically representing the visible, corporate church. These false teachers will gain authority within the church and deceive those who have not yet been sealed—those who profess faith but have not truly been saved.

As a result, many will believe the lie and receive the mark of the beast, identifying themselves with Satan’s kingdom until Christ returns. This warning is described throughout Scripture, including Revelation 9, 2 Thessalonians 2, and Revelation 17.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Keep it simple like God's Word does. The abyss is a symbolic name for a real place in the Heavenly dimension. Lord Jesus described it in Luke 16 as being on one side of Paradise across a great fixed gulf from where Abraham was on the other side. In Revelation 20, it is described as a type of pit prison, i.e., Satan's abode in the Heavenly dimension. So just as we have prisons here on earth, likewise there is a prison in the Heavenly dimension where the wicked go when they die, meaning their spirit.

Yes the abyss, or deep crops up in a few places. Symbolic terminology , and a theographical, not a geographical place, able to be sealed by an angel with a key.

Rev 20:1-3 I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. (2) He seized the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole inhabited earth, and bound him for a thousand years, (3) and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years were finished. After this, he must be freed for a short time.

 

[Davy]

WARNING BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

The temple described in Revelation 11:1-2 has everything... to do with the Orthodox Jew's future new 3rd stone temple they have the materials ready to build in today's Jerusalem. Don't be deceived by those who try to steer you away from that Biblical fact.

In Ephesians 2, Apostle Paul described the Temple of The Spirit being made up of the prophets, Apostles, and with Lord Jesus Himself as its Chief Corner Stone. How then... could that Temple of The Spirit ever... be corrupted by a false one?? It cannot. And that should easily... be understood by any 'true' Christian follower of Jesus Christ.

Thus Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 was pointing to a NEW STONE TEMPLE built by the Jews in Jerusalem for the end of this world for the coming false-Messiah to sit in, and play God. Those unbelieving Jews will treat their new 3rd temple as if it were ordained by God Himself, because they reject that Jesus of Nazareth is Messiah, so they are still waiting on Messiah to come. And per Zechariah 6, Messiah when He comes is to build the new temple.

 

[Davy]

Treating the false prophet and beast of Revelation 19:20 as being human flesh men is actually an error in Bible interpretation, just because some have a hard time understanding that the image of 'man' actually originates from the Heavenly, from God's Own Image Likeness per Genesis 1.

The angels which have appeared on earth without the need of a flesh body, appeared with the image of man.

So don't be deceived by those who wrongly just assume the word 'man' always means a flesh human. It does not per God's written Word.

The "false prophet" of Revelation 13, also called the "another beast", represents a ROLE played by Satan himself coming to this earth in our earthly realm to play Christ in Jerusalem. Think of it as with a stage play. The "false prophet" and "beast" are only CHARACTER ROLES played by Satan. When Lord Jesus returns, those two ROLES are cast into the "lake of fire". How can we know this is the right interpretation?

The answer is simple, because NO FLESH BORN MAN is cast into the "lake of fire" until AFTER Christ's future "thousand years" reign when God's Great White Throne Judgment will happen, and determine those who go into that "lake of fire". Thus the "false prophet" and "beast" which are destroyed at Christ's future coming have to be about ROLES and not literal flesh men.

 

[Truth7t7]

Again 7t7, you have adopted the false understanding that the beasts are human in nature. The four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 are heavenly hosts and are not human. However, the four beasts are capable of influencing the people in the sea of humanity to manifest the dominate characteristic of the respective beast that they have chosen to be influenced by. This is seen by how the people inhabiting a particular beast's dominion to ebb and flow in and out of that dominion over time.

Oh well such is life and our peculiar type of understanding.

Daniel's (Little Horn) will be a living human man as was shown, he will be present on this earth until the final consummation or ultimate end and he will be destroyed by the Lord at his second coming in final judgment (The End)

 

[Truth7t7]

WARNING BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

The temple described in Revelation 11:1-2 has everything... to do with the Orthodox Jew's future new 3rd stone temple they have the materials ready to build in today's Jerusalem. Don't be deceived by those who try to steer you away from that Biblical fact.

I Agree and Isaiah 66:1-4 clearly shows that this 3rd temple will be built by unsaved Jews with animal sacrifice renewed in defiance to God's guidance and direction, in complete disregard fir the Holy Sacrifice On Calvary

Thus Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 was pointing to a NEW STONE TEMPLE built by the Jews in Jerusalem for the end of this world for the coming false-Messiah to sit in, and play God. Those unbelieving Jews will treat their new 3rd temple as if it were ordained by God Himself, because they reject that Jesus of Nazareth is Messiah, so they are still waiting on Messiah to come. And per Zechariah 6, Messiah when He comes is to build the new temple.

Your messiah to come and rebuild a 3rd temple will be the Antichrist, Jesus isn't going to walk upon this earth again in a physical body

Jesus returns in his second coming immediately after a future 3.5 year tribulation in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by his fire (The End)

 

[Jay Ross]

Daniel's (Little Horn) will be a living human man as was shown, he will be present on this earth until the final consummation or ultimate end and he will be destroyed by the Lord at his second coming in final judgment (The End)

7t7, I have told you once what the truth of the matter is. You can either reject or accept what I have posted at your peril.

Shalom

 

[Truth7t7]

7t7, I have told you once what the truth of the matter is. You can either reject or accept what I have posted at your peril.

Shalom

Thanks for the response, I disagree with your interpretation

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

WARNING BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

The temple described in Revelation 11:1-2 has everything... to do with the Orthodox Jew's future new 3rd stone temple they have the materials ready to build in today's Jerusalem. Don't be deceived by those who try to steer you away from that Biblical fact.

No such temple could possibly be called God's temple. Every reference to God's temple or "the temple of God" in scripture refers to a temple that God ordained and dwelled in, whether it's a physical or spiritual temple. This temple you're talking about would most certainly not be God's temple in any way, shape or form, so it can't possibly have anything to do with the reference to God's temple in Revelation 11:1.

In Ephesians 2, Apostle Paul described the Temple of The Spirit being made up of the prophets, Apostles, and with Lord Jesus Himself as its Chief Corner Stone. How then... could that Temple of The Spirit ever... be corrupted by a false one?? It cannot. And that should easily... be understood by any 'true' Christian follower of Jesus Christ.

Thus Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 was pointing to a NEW STONE TEMPLE built by the Jews in Jerusalem for the end of this world for the coming false-Messiah to sit in, and play God. Those unbelieving Jews will treat their new 3rd temple as if it were ordained by God Himself, because they reject that Jesus of Nazareth is Messiah, so they are still waiting on Messiah to come. And per Zechariah 6, Messiah when He comes is to build the new temple.

Paul talks in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 about people in the temple of God (the church) falling away. Again, references to the temple of God in scripture always refer to a temple that God ordains and dwells in, so no future physical temple built by people who reject Christ would ever be called the temple of God in scripture.

 

[ewq1938]

Your messiah to come and rebuild a 3rd temple will be the Antichrist, Jesus isn't going to walk upon this earth again in a physical body

He will because the first coming was physical upon this Earth and so will be the second coming. The Earth is noytdestroyed until LONG after the second coming according to Rev 19-21.

 

[Davy]

I Agree and Isaiah 66:1-4 clearly shows that this 3rd temple will be built by unsaved Jews with animal sacrifice renewed in defiance to God's guidance and direction, in complete disregard fir the Holy Sacrifice On Calvary

Your messiah to come and rebuild a 3rd temple will be the Antichrist, Jesus isn't going to walk upon this earth again in a physical body

Jesus returns in his second coming immediately after a future 3.5 year tribulation in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by his fire (The End)

The Antichrist is definitely not... "my Jesus". So I'd appreciate if you would not try to label me that.

And no, the earth is not totally dissolved on the day of Jesus' future 2nd coming. Your dissolve idea is from men's doctrines of Amillennialism. Only the surface of this earth is going to be cleansed by God's consuming fire, which the end of Hebrews 12 even reveals this. And as revealed in 2 Peter 3 about the previous cleansings of this ancient earth with waters of flood that only cleansed the earth's surface.

 

[David Lamb]

I Agree and Isaiah 66:1-4 clearly shows that this 3rd temple will be built by unsaved Jews with animal sacrifice renewed in defiance to God's guidance and direction, in complete disregard fir the Holy Sacrifice On Calvary

Your messiah to come and rebuild a 3rd temple will be the Antichrist, Jesus isn't going to walk upon this earth again in a physical body

Jesus returns in his second coming immediately after a future 3.5 year tribulation in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by his fire (The End)

Well here is Isaiah 66:1-4:

(Isa 66:1-4 NKJV) Thus says the LORD: "Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool. Where is the house that you will build Me? And where is the place of My rest? For all those things My hand has made, And all those things exist," Says the LORD. "But on this one will I look: On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, And who trembles at My word. "He who kills a bull is as if he slays a man; He who sacrifices a lamb, as if he breaks a dog's neck; He who offers a grain offering, as if he offers swine's blood; He who burns incense, as if he blesses an idol. Just as they have chosen their own ways, And their soul delights in their abominations, So will I choose their delusions, And bring their fears on them; Because, when I called, no one answered, When I spoke they did not hear; But they did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight."

Where do those verses mention unsaved Jews building a third temple? We have God saying that heaven is His throne and earth His footstool. In view of that, when God asks, "Where is the house that you will build Me?" He is not saying, "You will try to build a third temple." Rather, He is saying that as heaven is His throne and earth His footstool, what house can be built for such an immense Being?

 

[Davy]

....

Where do those verses mention unsaved Jews building a third temple? We have God saying that heaven is His throne and earth His footstool. In view of that, when God asks, "Where is the house that you will build Me?" He is not saying, "You will try to build a third temple." Rather, He is saying that as heaven is His throne and earth His footstool, what house can be built for such an immense Being?

Really? Isaiah was referring to the conversation God had with David about building Him a house (See 2 Samuel 7). It was about the 1st temple, which God told David that his son Solomon would build. In Isaiah 66, God is reminding the children of Israel about that. It has nothing to do against the idea of a future 3rd stone temple built by the Jews in the last days.

When Jesus gave the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel for the end of this world, that is all the Biblical Scripture proof you need to prove there will be a 3rd stone temple built in Jerusalem for the end of this present world that the coming pseudo-Christ will sit in and play God, like Apostle Paul taught in 2 Thessalonians 2. (See also Matthew 24:15) That "abomination of desolation" prophecy involves the idea of a Jewish stone temple standing in Jerusalem (See Daniel 11 about the "vile person", a symbolic name for the coming Antichrist).

 

[Truth7t7]

Well here is Isaiah 66:1-4:

(Isa 66:1-4 NKJV) Thus says the LORD: "Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool. Where is the house that you will build Me? And where is the place of My rest? For all those things My hand has made, And all those things exist," Says the LORD. "But on this one will I look: On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, And who trembles at My word. "He who kills a bull is as if he slays a man; He who sacrifices a lamb, as if he breaks a dog's neck; He who offers a grain offering, as if he offers swine's blood; He who burns incense, as if he blesses an idol. Just as they have chosen their own ways, And their soul delights in their abominations, So will I choose their delusions, And bring their fears on them; Because, when I called, no one answered, When I spoke they did not hear; But they did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight."

Where do those verses mention unsaved Jews building a third temple? We have God saying that heaven is His throne and earth His footstool. In view of that, when God asks, "Where is the house that you will build Me?" He is not saying, "You will try to build a third temple." Rather, He is saying that as heaven is His throne and earth His footstool, what house can be built for such an immense Being?

You conveniently disregard the animal sacrifice taking place "Why"?

Where is the house you build + animal sacrifice = New Temple being built against God's will, they will be sent delusion

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You continently disregard the animal sacrifice taking place "Why"?

Where is the house you build + animal sacrifice = New Temple being built against God's will, they will be sent delusion

How can a temple built against God's will be called "God's temple" or "the temple of God"? That makes no sense. In scripture, all references to "Gods' temple" or "the temple of God" refer to temples that God ordained and dwelled in. No future physical temple built against God's will can meet that criteria.

 

[Davy]

How can a temple built against God's will be called "God's temple" or "the temple of God"? That makes no sense. In scripture, all references to "Gods' temple" or "the temple of God" refer to temples that God ordained and dwelled in. No future physical temple built against God's will can meet that criteria.

So the 2nd temple which Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. setup an idol to Zeus in, and the Romans also with their Aelia Capitolina where the 2nd temple had been, wasn't that 2nd temple still... God's Temple the Jews built by His direction when they returned from the Babylon captivity? Yes, I believe it was.

The actual meaning of the "abomination of desolation" from Daniel 11:31 which Lord Jesus quoted for the end of this world is about an object of false worship placed in the Jewish stone temple that was dedicated to God, thus SPIRITUALLY DESOLATING it. That's what the 'desolation' idea is about, not a desolation of destruction, but one of spiritual ruin because of false worship.

 

[Truth7t7]

How can a temple built against God's will be called "God's temple" or "the temple of God"? That makes 3no sense. In scripture, all references to "Gods' temple" or "the temple of God" refer to temples that God ordained and dwelled in. No future physical temple built against God's will can meet that criteria.

The Jews in the future will be building to the God of the Old Testament, the true "God", this will be done against God's direction, and in disregard to the Cross of Calvary

The world will view this 3rd temple as the Hebrew God's temple

 

[Davy]

I admire the faithfulness of believing Jews that just don't want to believe that a 3rd stone temple will be built and dedicated to God at the end of this world by the orthodox unbelieving Jews in today's Jerusalem, but this matter is from God. He is allowing it because there will be a strong lesson involved for the unbeliever, especially those unbelieving Jews of Apostle Paul's fellow-brethren that he said God put the spirit of slumber upon away from The Gospel (See Romans 11).

 

[Truth7t7]

I admire the faithfulness of believing Jews that just don't want to believe that a 3rd stone temple will be built and dedicated to God at the end of this world by the orthodox unbelieving Jews in today's Jerusalem, but this matter is from God. He is allowing it because there will be a strong lesson involved for the unbeliever, especially those unbelieving Jews of Apostle Paul's fellow-brethren that he said God put the spirit of slumber upon away from The Gospel (See Romans 11).

Only the Remnant elect Jew will be saved those who God chooses the 1/3, the rest of the Jews will be blinded

Romans 11:5-7KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Zechariah 13:8-9KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

 

[Truth7t7]

At the time of the end, just before the Second Coming, the Gentiles (symbolically representing the heathen, false prophets, and false christs) will enter the outer court and deceive them as God’s judgment for their unfaithfulness.

"False"

(The Beast) & (The False Prophet) will be "Literal" separate living human beings, (These Both) will be cast (Alive/Living) into the lake of fire

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.