Why Will "all nations" attack Israel?

[ScottA]

Quoting you: "The battle that you are referring to has already occurred. (I.E. Preterist!)

"Every nation and people and king were represented in Christ on the cross--on earth. But the prophecy does indeed also refer to the heavenly Jerusalem, and the victory is his, "It is finished."

I.E. YOUR imagination!

You are so in trouble!

"By the measure you use" you are denying that Jesus won an all time victory on the cross. (I.E. Anti-Christ!)

Ouoting you: "Redemption is what "is finished". I highly recommend it for Preterists."

I.E. YOUR delusion! That redemption does not actually mean "It is finished" and you have joined with the Accuser.

 

[ScottA]

I think the reason all nations will attack Israel/Jerusalem is because of "antisemitism" because of bad things the Jews have allegedly done (they were allegedly behind communism (Marx, Trotsky, etc) and are behind zionism which is allegedly globalism, and behind the media etc in the USA, etc) and because of alleged bad things being done in the Palestinian war (and also the wars with neighbouring Islamic countries like Iran). The sort of thing that happened under Nazism. Christians (part of the woman's seed) will be included in antisemitism because Christianity was from Semitic Jesus & Paul etc.
I don't think they attack them just because of being anti-God, because Revelation etc seem to imply Israel/Jews are mostly unsaved except for 1/3rd remnant or 144000? Revelation calls Jerusalem "Sodom & Egypt". Though Satan and all his followers will also be anti-God/anti-Jesus and so saved Messianic Jews and Christians will also be targeted because of that reason too and because of refusing to take the mark of the beast.

* I say "alleged" because they may be true or may not be or may be part true and part not.

Christendom has a problem with its theology. We have been under "strong delusion."

None of these prophecies are to be seen clearly and correctly until it is acknowledged and believed that Jesus had an all time victory against and for every nation and people of all time at the cross, and that "It is finished."

 

[Jack]

You are so in trouble!

You're coming after me?

"By the measure you use" you are denying that Jesus won an all time victory on the cross. (I.E. Anti-Christ!)

The "measure I use" is that is when Jesus shed His Blood and died for us, redemption was completed/finished!

Ouoting you: "Redemption is what "is finished". I highly recommend it for Preterists."

AMEN!

I.E. YOUR delusion! That redemption does not actually mean "It is finished" and you have joined with the Accuser.

I never said that? Did you?

 

[Jack]

Christendom has a problem with its theology.

So you're not in "Christendom"?

We have been under "strong delusion."

Is that a confession?

None of these prophecies are to be seen clearly and correctly until it is acknowledged and believed that Jesus had an all time victory against and for every nation and people of all time at the cross, and that "It is finished."

Sounds like JW doctrine. 'The Bible doesn't mean what it says'!!!

So are you JW/Preterist?

 

[stevesonthebay]

I think theres some ancient spirits still lurking around that goes back to how all the people divided into tribes and nations after the tower of babel. Even tracing back before this to Cain. Primarily these different tribes and nations stem from Cain. Thus the land and peoples were generally referred to as the Canaanites when Gods people entered the promised land.

As the Isrealites failed to destroy all the Canaanites their ancient spirit is still alive and wanting to destroy their ancient enermy the Isrelaites.

Though today Isreal is not the spiritual Isreal. But its spirit is in the land I think and yet to be realised. Christians have a place for the Isreal God had brought to Jerusalem. The place where they betrayed Jesus. This place as deep connections spiritually.

The reason I think the hate for Isreal is spiritual is because theres no logical or rational reason why Isreal would be fixated on. It seems to stir up something beyond emotion and and reasoning.

Perhaps some envy or jealousy as Isreal has done well as a nation. But it has not done anything different to other nations. I know for Islam is a problem as they both compete for the same holy mountain. Islam and Mahammed is in direct competition to Christ. Theres nothing like religion to inflame things.

But there seems no justification for the anti semeticism that has resurfaced in recent times. Its well beyond reason and it seems to get very vicious in wanting to actually destroy and kill anyone who is associated with Jews and Isreal. Which for me suggests this is a spiritual conflict.

 

[ScottA]

I think theres some ancient spirits still lurking around that goes back to how all the people divided into tribes and nations after the tower of babel. Even tracing back before this to Cain. Primarily these different tribes and nations stem from Cain. Thus the land and peoples were generally referred to as the Canaanites when Gods people entered the promised land.

As the Isrealites failed to destroy all the Canaanites their ancient spirit is still alive and wanting to destroy their ancient enermy the Isrelaites.

Though today Isreal is not the spiritual Isreal. But its spirit is in the land I think and yet to be realised. Christians have a place for the Isreal God had brought to Jerusalem. The place where they betrayed Jesus. This place as deep connections spiritually.

The reason I think the hate for Isreal is spiritual is because theres no logical or rational reason why Isreal would be fixated on. It seems to stir up something beyond emotion and and reasoning.

Perhaps some envy or jealousy as Isreal has done well as a nation. But it has not done anything different to other nations. I know for Islam is a problem as they both compete for the same holy mountain. Islam and Mahammed is in direct competition to Christ. Theres nothing like religion to inflame things.

But there seems no justification for the anti semeticism that has resurfaced in recent times. Its well beyond reason and it seems to get very vicious in wanting to actually destroy and kill anyone who is associated with Jews and Isreal. Which for me suggests this is a spiritual conflict.

Israel is under the curses of Deuteronomy 28. Not those saved in Christ at the cross, but their sons and daughters; not the house of Israel, but their seed made manifest, that every nation and people should also stand or fall before God who fights for and against.

 

[Anchorite]

Christendom has a problem with its theology. We have been under "strong delusion."

None of these prophecies are to be seen clearly and correctly until it is acknowledged and believed that Jesus had an all time victory against and for every nation and people of all time at the cross, and that "It is finished."

Jesus did not say “Everything is finished”, He said “It is finished”, referring to His redemptive work, the vicarious payment of the sins of humanity.

Translated from the Greek word tetelestai, it was often used in business, accounting, and law as a receipt meaning "paid in full."

Every Old Testament prophecy pointing to the Messiah's suffering was accomplished at the cross.

 

[ScottA]

Jesus did not say “Everything is finished”, He said “It is finished”, referring to His redemptive work, the vicarious payment of the sins of humanity.

Translated from the Greek word tetelestai, it was often used in business, accounting, and law as a receipt meaning "paid in full."

Every Old Testament prophecy pointing to the Messiah's suffering was accomplished at the cross.

You contradict yourself and God.

Which is it, not "Everything is finished" or "paid in full?" (Rhetorical) You have already answered.

What else would you like to deny here, that you were crucified with Christ, or that He has not returned by going first to the Father and come again into you, or perhaps that he has come into you at all, or that you are not redeemed because "Everything is not finished", or that you are happy to die denying that all these things are completely finished until the last soul, or that Jesus lied when He said "today you will be with me in Paradise", or that Paul lied because he said "to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord"--because not "Everything is finished?"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There is something you and many have overlooked and not taken into account. What you are advocating is against Christ and God. Because it is against Jesus' prayer of "on earth as it is in heaven."

The battle that you are referring to has already occurred. Every nation and people and king were represented in Christ on the cross--on earth. But the prophecy does indeed also refer to the heavenly Jerusalem, and the victory is his, "It is finished."

But Zechariah was referring to war in heaven where every nation and people and all kings were present, simultaneously occurring both on earth and in heaven, the answer to Jesus' prayer.

You will find out how wrong you are by rewriting the word of God to mean spiritual things.

Do you think i t is but a mere coincidence that the majority of nations are opposed to Israel as is written?
Do you think it mere coincidence that Israel was restored as a nation as is written?
Do you think it mere coincidence that Israel has been regathering to be purged of their rebels by god as is written?
Do you think that nations and mayors is the US who are very antisemitic- are receiving the fruit of their anti semitism as is written?

Please tell us, why should we accpet your re-interpretation of Gods word instead of accepting God at His word when He said He wold allow His followers to accept and receive His Words?

Why are you reinterpretations better than the legions who have gone on before you and offered their reinterpretations?

 

[Anchorite]

Israel and Jerusalem are different, especially if you are considering the modern state of Israel.

So the claim by God is more specific. Jerusalem is the heart, or as if the Holy of Hollies of Israel. Which is to say, the passage is rather referring to God Himself. In other words, or spiritually, His statement is to be understood as, He will gather all people to battle against--Him. Which simply means--to sin against Him...which then is made manifest literally in all the history of the world, from beginning to end.

But men of the world, thinking as men think, have assumed that it means something that doesn't actually include them--heaven forbid. And they are those who have taught what is false regarding the end times.

You falsely interpret literal scripture as metaphorical, “in other words, spiritually”, with no justification.

You falsely claim that all nations coming against Jerusalem to battle happened “in all the history of the world”..

But Zechariah contradicts your assertions. He speaks of one specific event in history.


Zechariah 14

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lordwill smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness Unto The Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

 

[ScottA]

You will find out how wrong you are by rewriting the word of God to mean spiritual things.

I have "rewritten" nothing--that is a lie.

 

[Mosheli]

Christendom has a problem with its theology. We have been under "strong delusion."

None of these prophecies are to be seen clearly and correctly until it is acknowledged and believed that Jesus had an all time victory against and for every nation and people of all time at the cross, and that "It is finished."

Are you referring to "the Lie"? Can you expand on what you mean as I don't know?

Yes his victory was when he died on the cross, and we overcome because he has, but it seems it won't fully play out worldwise/kingdomwise until the end times?

Daniel 7 says the little horn wages war against the saints and prevails against them, and says he shall oppress/wear-out the saints.

But then the Lamb will triump over the beast (Rev 17:14)
and kingdom will be given to the saints (Dan 7:22, 27).

 

[Mosheli]

How about WorldWide Islam?

I don't see a worldwide islam in prophecy? Though I could be wrong. Would be interested to know what things in the bible suggest it to you?

 

[ScottA]

Are you referring to "the Lie"? Can you expand on what you mean as I don't know?

Yes, Jesus said He was coming again "soon", "quickly", and even at that time stood "at the door" (present tense), and set before the early church a fork in the road, and a choice to be made. Just as Moses had done with Israel saying "I set before you life and death, blessing and cursing, therefore choose life that you and your children may life", Jesus set before the church the Holy Spirit and what would come directly from the Father, as it was when Peter identified Jesus as the Christ, and "flesh and blood"--again, life or death. Peter foretold of "false teachers" entering into the church. Paul spoke of many believing a "lie" causing "strong delusion." And John said the spirit of anti-Christ was "already at work." And the "false teachers" not seeing Jesus return "soon" or by "flesh and blood" introduced the doctrine--the "lie"--of a future physical return of Christ in the "flesh" against all that He had said of the spirit not being visible and the kingdom not coming by observation.

And those doctrines are still being taught today, the fulfillment of "strong delusion."

But as Paul clarified, that does not mean that Jesus returned and it has already past as the Preterist believed. No, rather that His return would be "but to each one in his own order"--each in their own time, until the end.

Yes his victory was when he died on the cross, and we overcome because he has, but it seems it won't fully play out worldwise/kingdomwise until the end times?

Daniel 7 says the little horn wages war against the saints and prevails against them, and says he shall oppress/wear-out the saints.

But then the Lamb will triump over the beast (Rev 17:14)
and kingdom will be given to the saints (Dan 7:22, 27)

As I touched on before, these prophecies are not to be fully understood without first understanding that the cross, though it merely came at a time in history--it was rather a timeless event of God "from before the foundation of the world." Literally. Which is a hard thing for time-bound people knowing only the ways of this world, to grasp. Even so, that is what is written, and it is only the teachings of men that has made it something less than perfectly timeless in God.

Which then is greatly confused in the prophetic writings without "rightly dividing the word of truth" in that way, as worldly, or heavenly and timelessly so much more than an event that was made manifest in a small part to the world in a worldly way, that people might see and believe. Meaning, the only thing "literal" about many prophetic events, is that they are not actually of this world, and what is, is only a revealing of what has occurred in heaven. So I don't advise getting hung up on prophecy as predictions. They are riddled with spiritual camo, hidden in plain sight from those who do not actually want to follow the path of spiritual bread crumbs. If you do, don't assume anything--that was the error of the "false teachers" who propagated the "lie" causing "strong delusion." God has promised to reveal all truth, but in His way, not the ways of men and their own understanding.

Incidentally, what I have just described to you is come according to the declaration of "time" or "delay no longer." Which is the promise of being lead unto all truth made manifest, when "rightly dividing the word of truth" by what is of time, and what is of eternity and timeless. Then comes the end.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I have "rewritten" nothing--that is a lie.

Hello Jack,

Israel and Jerusalem are different, especially if you are considering the modern state of Israel.

So the claim by God is more specific. Jerusalem is the heart, or as if the Holy of Hollies of Israel. Which is to say, the passage is rather referring to God Himself. In other words, or spiritually, His statement is to be understood as, He will gather all people to battle against--Him. Which simply means--to sin against Him...which then is made manifest literally in all the history of the world, from beginning to end.

But men of the world, thinking as men think, have assumed that it means something that doesn't actually include them--heaven forbid. And they are those who have taught what is false regarding the end times.

Here is one passage you have rewritten.

You follow the basic cultist way . "I know what is written, but this is what it really means". NO I do not lie!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

seeing Jesus return "soon" or by "flesh and blood" introduced the doctrine--the "lie"--of a future physical return of Christ in the "flesh" against all that He had said of the spirit not being visible and the kingdom not coming by observation.

And those doctrines are still being taught today, the fulfillment of "strong delusion."

But as Paul clarified, that does not mean that Jesus returned and it has already past as the Preterist believed. No, rather that His return would be "but to each one in his own order"--each in their own time, until the end.

To your terror, you will find out that Jesus will return in a glorified flesh and bone body to fight against the antichrist and the armies of the world who have taken the mark and defeat them and establish a 1000 year kingdom, just as it is written in the Holy Spirit inspired Word of God.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And those doctrines are still being taught today, the fulfillment of "strong delusion."

Which doctrines are false? So far you have only argued that the physical return of Jesus is false. You have yet to expalion what happened to His physical body after He ascended and disappeared out of sight with Scripture.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There is something you and many have overlooked and not taken into account. What you are advocating is against Christ and God. Because it is against Jesus' prayer of "on earth as it is in heaven."

The battle that you are referring to has already occurred. Every nation and people and king were represented in Christ on the cross--on earth. But the prophecy does indeed also refer to the heavenly Jerusalem, and the victory is his, "It is finished."

But Zechariah was referring to war in heaven where every nation and people and all kings were present, simultaneously occurring both on earth and in heaven, the answer to Jesus' prayer.

YOu are ignorant of Scripture. Teh tetelestai or It is finished cry of Jesus does not refer to battles against nations. It does refer to the fact that when Jesus cried thiis out, the full and complete payment for all of mankinds sins had been paid. there is no other poayment accepted. Paul spoke of this on the cross. It is not some ethereal battle.