What is the difference between the soul and the spirit?

[IndianaRob]

I get this from Revelation 20:13 - "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them.." This event occurs at the last judgment so we can see that there are different realms for the dead. The sea would be symbolic of the world, Rev. 17:15. We can conclude that the souls that are in that level are possibly "ghosts" that did not rate the lowest hell where the devil, his angels and his followers go. The souls that are in this realm, the sea, our realm, possibly are the source of some paranormal activities. They are in a level of hell because they are bodiless and cannot function as normal humans anymore which would be a from of torment.

By trapped in this dimension do you mean reincarnation?

 

[Biblica]

By trapped in this dimension do you mean reincarnation?

No, not at all. These are just souls that have left their bodies when they died and were not qualified to rate the lowest hell according to God's judgment, but were not saved, so they roam the earth or inhabit former dwelling places. We see that the devil and his angels are thrown into the lake of fire, but I think from Jesus' statements concerning the outer darkness, this particular group possibly are the ones that are in the outer darkness. Because they have rejected Christ they can't inherit the new heaven and earth when this planet is eventually destroyed, so when this planet is gone, all that is left will be that cold outer darkness that Jesus described.

 

[William Barton]

'First' let me ask what translation/s do you study with? I am going to use the Young's Literal Translation, just because of its more 'literal' interpretation of the Greek. 'Second' I want to share a quote I had to laugh at the first time I ever heard it....decades ago. "The dumber Christians are, the quicker they are to quote the book of Revelation to prove their point." WB FYI, I'm not laughing at you, and hopefully you are laughing with me.

REV 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;

First questions; What "earth and heaven" would "flee away" from the face of "Him"? And 'why' would they do so? Especially if "Him" was Jesus?

vs 12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls - according to their works;
The Greek word translated as "dead" is NEKROS. That just happens to be the word from which we get necrotic from. It describes non-viable and non reversible dying of flesh. This explanation kind of goes along with that NT teaching about if your "eye, hand, arm, foot offend you" causing you to sin, then the bible says to cut them off to let that body part become necrotic and dead flesh. But the rest of that bible teaching is so the rest of your BODY can go to Heaven. No, wait that's not true. It says so YOU can still enter the Kingdom of GOD here and now.

I'm just going to stop here WB. It should be obvious that Revelation isn't PROVING your next point. And dealing with the last two verses would take too long.


'First' let me ask what translation/s do you study with? I am going to use the Young's Literal Translation; just because of its more 'literal' interpretation of the Greek into English.

'Second' what requirements were made in those 2 verses'both 1/2 quoted'? Half quoted verses do not prove 'a whole truth'. Let's start with your first verse Joh 1:12 then your second verse John 3:16 in context with vs 17 which I'm adding;

JOH 1:12 but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God - to those believing in his name,

Two Greek words both get translated as "receive". One is decomai and the other is lambano. This verse uses lambano. Decomai/receive is when first you receive Jesus and your spirit is born again..everlastingly saved. At that moment you have also received conditional immortality for your body of flesh. That condition being 'don't ever commit another sin'....or you will die.

JOH 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son - the only begotten - He gave, that every one who is believing in him MAY NOT PERISH, but may have life age-during.


How is 'the church' doing concerning this promise to "MAY NOT PERISH"? Hopefully you can see the YLT is talking about the "life" available "during" the church "age".
And not the everlasting life of the multiple ages to come according to Eph 2:8


YLT JOH 3:17* For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world MAY be saved through him;

vs 17 says "MIGHT" or "MAY" be saved. Let me just copy/paste a quote I found in my studies concerning this topic.

I asked my friend, Dr. Michael Jones, a Hebrew and Greek scholar, what he thought of “might” in John 3:17. Here is a man that only reads the New Testament in the Greek language. In fact, he teaches N.T. Greek. He explained to me in a very simple way: Using “might” in John 3:17 is not good translating. The force of the subjunctive here is not like 'a maybe', or 'a might'. That is why many translators leave “might” out, i.e., to keep the English-only reader from getting confused. The subjunctive can be 'a might', i.e., 'a possibility'–a maybe–a might, and yet, it can also emphasize a statement of fact better than the indicative mood/mode. So, let me illustrate this in English: If a translator gave us a transport from a CRITICAL METHOD of translation theory, he might write: “Bob hit the ball over the fence so that he might have a home-run”. But a translator using a DYNAMIC EQUIVALENT model of translation theory might write it like this: “Bob hit the ball over the fence to get a home-run.” Note that the subjunctive is there, but difficult to see in English.”

I know that's a lot to think about concerning your 1/2 quote on 2 verses. Hopefully @NotTheRock can see some application here concerning Ultimate Reconciliation.

EDIT: Forgot to list chap/verse EPH 2:8

Hillsage queried:

<What translations>
ESV for casual reading. For study I access the Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek via interlinear English/Greek Bible and interlinear English/Hebrew-Aramaic Bible.

<Earth and heaven flee away>
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1).
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth (Revelation 20:1)

God creates, God disposes.

<Dead small and great standing before God>

IM0: The unregenerate are confined to the lake of fire (within the earth) until the end of the Millennium. Then they are disposed after their summary judgment (all "standing before God").

"Might" (John 3:17) = Greek ινα = "in order that" (Oxford Greek Dictionary), hence "in order that he might/should." It indicates purpose.

Of course the word of the Lord is perfect (Psalm 18:30), hence the outcome is certain.

 

[William Barton]

Interesting. What do you mean by “the "sea" trapped in this dimension”?

Revelation 20:11-25 describes the judgment of the unsaved dead after the millennium. Some had died at sea, some had died in the Genesis flood, others had died on land and were buried on land.

 

[Hillsage]

NASB, for parallel English-Greek
NIV Interlinear Old Testament (Hebrew--English)
ESV Bible for reading

You have an Interlinear of the OT only? I haven't even heard of one of those.
Do you have any NT Greek Interlinears?
Do you also use something like Strong's Concordance for their Hebrew/Greek dictionary/lexicon in your studies?

<Heaven and earth fled away>
Sin corrupts the sinner and *everything* associated with him, hence new heavens and new earth after the millennium--old heavens and earth disappear (Revelation chapters 21, 22. Compare with Genesis 1:1).

In post 56 when when I asked;
"First question; What "earth and heaven" would "flee away" from the face of "Him"? And 'why' would they do so? Especially if "Him" was Jesus?"

In that question I was referencing your "Compare with Genesis 1:1" quote above. But in Young's literal translation, that "heaven" isn't singular in Genisis it is plural.
YLT In the beginning of God's preparing the HEAVENS and the earth -
Your NIV OT Interlinear should confirm that point.

So check it and then tell me which one of "the heavens" in Gen 1:1 and Rev 20:11 you are referring to that "flee from the face of Jesus? Because only ONE HEAVEN is mentioned in Rev 20:11.

REV 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

I am asking because in 20:12 it goes on to say ALL THE DEAD were judged. That includes CHRISTIANS who died.

REV 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

You appear to be assuming that only unbelievers are dead at the Great White Throne judgment. And most who believe that, think Christians are exempt. But as you see above The Great White Throne judgment is based upon "their/our works" and not the work of Jesus on the cross.

John 3:16-20 is the gospel (Greek ευαγγελιον, ευ=good, αγγελιον news, ie. "good news":

" For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life " (John 3'16)

Young's Literal Translation JOH 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son - the only begotten - He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

As you can plainly see, the gospel says we aren't supposed to "PERISH" or DIE after "believing in him", so why are we? Personally I think it's because of your quote which I totally agree with.

"Sin corrupts the sinner and *everything* associated with him,"

And a sinner is one who commits a sin. Right? Just like Adam did. And that one sin led to his death. Same as James declares; "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. (James 2:10)

As an Ultimate reconciliation believer, translating the John 3:16 Greek word aionion into "life AGE-during" is why I disagree with the traditions we inherited from Rome.

 

[William Barton]

You have an Interlinear of the OT only? I haven't even heard of one of those.
Do you have any NT Greek Interlinears?
Do you also use something like Strong's Concordance for their Hebrew/Greek dictionary/lexicon in your studies?

I have Strings Concordance, an OT interlinear, and a NT interlinar. I probably got them all on Amazon.

 

[Hillsage]

God creates, God disposes.

<Dead small and great standing before God>

REV 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

As I said in your last post, this judgment was all "the dead". Christian and non believers alike. And all the dead were judged by their works, both good and bad. And all of us have a book of life concerning good works we've all done or have not done, from birth. Don't Christians always tell unbelievers that "God has a plan for your life."? When do you think that plan started? Is it the day you got them to say YES! Or did it start a week later when some other "Christian" witnessed to them?

IM0: The unregenerate are confined to the lake of fire (within the earth) until the end of the Millennium. Then they are disposed after their summary judgment (all "standing before God").

Two groups are in the throne room. One group (the "overcomer" believers) are sitting IN the throne in their white robes. But the group of those standing before the throne are those believers in their white robes who were not overcomers.

YLT REV 3:18, 21 I counsel thee to buy from me gold fired by fire, that thou mayest be rich, and white garments that thou mayest be arrayed, and the shame of thy nakedness may not be manifest, and with eye-salve anoint thine eyes, that thou mayest see. :21* He who is overcoming - I will give to him to sit with me in my throne, as I also did overcome and did sit down with my Father IN His throne.

YLT REV 7:9 After these things I saw, and lo, a great multitude, which to number no one was able, out of all nations, and tribes, and peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne, and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands,

"Might" (John 3:17) = Greek ινα = "in order that" (Oxford Greek Dictionary), hence "in order that he might/should." It indicates purpose.

2443 hina: in order that (denoting the purpose or the result)

I don't care what the definition of the Greek word ινα is.
Other Greek interlinears have the Greek word SOZO instead of HINA.

4982 sozo: to save, i.e. deliver or protect (lit. or fig.)
the literal and figurative def. of the word isn't MIGHT, it is TO SAVE. But if you have a different Greek translation than most and ινα or hina has replaced SOZO then I have this comment below.

"MIGHT" or "MAY"
I asked my friend, Dr. Michael Jones, a Hebrew and Greek scholar, what he thought of “might” in John 3:17. Here is a man that only reads the New Testament in the Greek language. In fact, he teaches N.T. Greek. He explained to me in a very simple way: Using “might” in John 3:17 is not good translating. The force of the subjunctive here is not like 'a maybe', or 'a might'. That is why many translators leave “might” out, i.e., to keep the English-only reader from getting confused. The subjunctive can be 'a might', i.e., 'a possibility'–a maybe–a might, and yet, it can also emphasize a statement of fact better than the indicative mood/mode. So, let me illustrate this in English: If a translator gave us a transport from a CRITICAL METHOD of translation theory, he might write: “Bob hit the ball over the fence so that he might have a home-run”. But a translator using a DYNAMIC EQUIVALENT model of translation theory might write it like this: “Bob hit the ball over the fence to get a home-run.” Note that the subjunctive is there, but difficult to see in English.”

 

[William Barton]

One webpage says:

"The Roman judgment seat, or bema, was a raised platform tribunal where magistrates and governors exercised judicial authority, later used metaphorically in the New Testament to illustrate divine judgment."

The Bible says,

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:1).

 

[Hillsage]

The Bible says,

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:1).

EDIT EDIT bottom.
I think you need more context to understand more fully what you just said.

~Life in the Spirit~ is the paragraph heading in many bibles for this verse's context., and that generalheading is key for unpacking that verse.

KJV ROM 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

This bolded part above is only found in KJV NKJ and YLT. But your favored translations 'correctly omit' it.
The Greek word for "condemnation" is 2631 katakrima: an ADVERSE SENTENCE (the verdict)

That Greek word is only in the whole bible 3X and all 3 times are in this book of Romans 5:16,18, :8:1.

ROM 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

To access a "no condemnation" verdict "from the law of sin and death" now, you must be walking in the "law of the spirit of life" which you access IF you quit walking in the "the law of sin and death".

Paul isn't saying its a done thing for us who got born again, he's telling us how he had to walk to escape the "sin and death" sentence verdict, in this life.

ROM 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

The Greek word for "condemned" in this verse is different than verse 8:1, and it is in the bible 18 times.

2632 katakrino: to judge against, i.e. sentence

The admonition of this verse is, if you want to walk in the "law of the spirit of life" and not "the law of sin and death" (PERISH), then you need to DO what Jesus did when He was being "tempted". He 'judged against' committing the sin and so must we.

Now apply all I just said with the rest of the context. YOU choose life or death condemnation

ROM 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

EDIT EDIT EDIT
In verse 4 "who walk NOT after the flesh, but after the spirit." is correctly added, but "the" (def article) is not in the Greek, and spirit is incorrectly capitalized in modern translations. You are to be walking "according to spirit".....YOUR spirit.