No, the opposite. If those who know the Lord and therefore under the law of liberty (believers) fall into sin and condemnation, they will be judged more strictly than someone who had never known the Lord.....sorer punishment, beaten with more stripes.
Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2
- Thread starter Episkopos
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We wouldn't have any works (fruit of the SPIRIT) without Christ, would we? So to Him be the glory.
A couple of things on that. First, Abraham was already counted as righteous by faith (Gen 15:6) roughly 30-40 years before he offered Isaac (Gen 22) - decades before the works you're pointing to. So whatever "justified" means in James, it can't mean the works added to or produced his righteousness, since that was already credited to him long before.
Second, your assumption is that "justified" in that verse means something was added to his righteousness. But James is using "justified" to mean his faith was shown, demonstrated, confirmed as genuine, not that the works contributed to a righteousness he didn't already have.
Yes and those are free gift given to us, we don’t, and in fact can’t, work to get them.
Both, but in the right order, faith (repentance | born again), that as a result automatically produces works (fruits) driven by the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Efez 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Efez 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Efez 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
that we should walk in them.
As a personal note, works (fruits) for me basically means working on myself.
Your questions are fully outside the scope of the bible. They are taught only in man-made institutions. But for clarification I will correct your questions and give answers according to what the bible teaches...
1. We only "get to heaven" right now. We are meant to be seated in heavenly places in Christ NOW. In the next age there will be a new earth where people will dwell. Modern religion confuses the kingdom of God with a pagan style Valhalla after-life.
2. We are ONLY judged by our works. By our works (and words) we will be justified or condemned. There is no judgment based on the accuracy of our beliefs. That is a fable.
3. Christ is not imputed to anyone. No one is Christ but Jesus Christ. We can abide in Christ where He is... being covered by Him with an eternal life anointing of holiness. And we can have Christ in us as a template that we are being hammered into...or chipped away into. But God does not recognize any of us as being Christ. Christ is unique...there is none like Him.
As any who know the bible can tell, what you are espousing doesn't come from the bible at all...it is a deceptive subversion. Unless they are likewise indoctrinated. Which of course is quite common...and a LOT easier than actually encountering God.
Well, yes and no. We pay a price too. Jesus said to count the cost. There are a lot of "yes and no's" in the bible :)
MostlyConfused
Active Member
Episkopos, I have just seen your thread in a picture way, as a giant battlefield, smoke from fires roiling everywhere, piles of rubble, the wounded stumbling around in shock and you going from person to person performing a sort of triage where you mark some of the wounded with the “E” but the criteria is based on whether one is confused or calculating. The calculating get the mark. It’s like trying to do the most good for the most amount of the wounded without wasting time on those who make a battlefield out of the very battlefield you are working in by trying to rule over all of the wounded. Might seem strange but it’s how I saw it.
Rom 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
Matt 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”
MostlyConfused
Active Member
Getting the ego out of the way is EASY??? No way, man. The ego wars against the Spirit all on its own. Throw in the world and the devil, who as you said manipulates our ego and our emotions and harms ourselves and others by it, and there is nothing easy about it. It’s all we know. It’s our whole life, our base of operation, our protection.
It’s very difficult, not easy. Having said that, in one moment, after a few decades, it became easy, so maybe I will see by your upcoming teaching that I could have saved time and anguish and wandering the same ground over and over.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
In the verses that define how one is saved, I don’t see works as a requirement for salvation. In fact verse 9 says it’s “not of works” because people would boast about their works. What am I missing?
I think he means simple not complicated.
So you're saying Christ's righteousness is worthless to us since it's never imputed to us, and judgment is by works alone, it does nothing for our standing before God?
This is a very carnal and selfish reasoning. You are only looking at Jesus for what you can get out of Him. You are missing the point of the gospel completely. It's not a lifeboat for the flesh. It's a call to surrender.
Christ's righteousness is on 2 levels. What He did as a man, AND what He did in His divinity. You can't separate the 2. What religious people want is ONLY to try benefiting from Christ's divinity while fully ignoring to DO as He did as a man....He humbled Himself to be as a servant with no rights and take on a cruel death at the hands of sinners. If you want to have the righteousness of Christ then give up your life as He did. Become the servant of all. Then MAYBE He will ALSO cover you with His divine life.
The only righteousness we can be imputed with is our own. The white robes is the righteousness of saints....not the righteousness of God. Don't confuse a COVERING with a personal attribute.
An involuntary correct statement. If you read the bible you will find no other kind of judgment.
Our standing with God is based on faith AND faithfulness (our works). Do you believe that Christ empowers His saints to walk without sin just as Jesus did? If not, you have no faith yet. Nevermind actually seeking first the kingdom, which no pretender ever did.
God calls us into the victory of Christ to walk in resurrection life without sin....as a GIFT...fully unmerited. That is the salvation of the gospel. We are saved FROM sin not IN sin.
There are 2 levels to the christian walk. The goodness AND severity of God. What we do (according to mercy) and what God does through us (according to glory). If you confuse the 2 and claim glory when you actually need to humble yourself into His mercy...then you will be rejected.
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This is silly. You are reserving the judgment of saying yes and no by the very limited knowledge of good and evil you possess. And you manage to get that wrong because your attitude is not surrendered...it is still in the ego phase.
What’s your take on this verse. It seems to say the opposite of what you’re saying.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
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