Unfading Beauty: Wisdom from Wives

[Lambano]

We disagree. Agape is closer to universal compassion than highly conditional love in English.

God is also described as "merciful". Eleos is the word the Septuagint translators used for chesed in Exodus 20:6 and the word Matthew used when Jesus quoted Hosea 6:6 I desire compassion, not sacrifice in Matthew 9:13 NASB.

Agape, though, is a stonger word than eleos.

 

[Wrangler]

OK. Getting back to the wisdom of wives, it seems @TitusTwoWife prioritizes her family in love and sacrifice. Not sure what all this hostility is toward her noble pursuit. I doubt better knowledge of ancient languages will light our path.

 

[Lambano]

From Agape - Wikipedia

Agape (from Ancient Greek ἀγάπη (agápē)) is "the highest form of love, charity" and "the love of God for [human beings] and of [human beings] for God". This is in contrast to philia, brotherly love, or philautia, self-love, as it embraces a profound sacrificial love that transcends and persists regardless of circumstance.....

Agape was also used by the early Christians to refer to the self-sacrificing love of God for humanity, which they were committed to reciprocating and practicing towards God and among one another. This understanding is built upon the foundational Hebrew concept of chesed, or the loving-kindness of God, which is taught throughout the Old Testament.....

Agape identifies with the interests of the neighbor "in utter independence of the question of his attractiveness" and with no expectation of reciprocity....

Derived from Greek, agape traditionally denotes a selfless, unconditional love....

 

[Lambano]

OK. Getting back to the wisdom of wives, it seems @TitusTwoWife prioritizes her family in love and sacrifice. Not sure what all this hostility is toward her noble pursuit. I doubt better knowledge of ancient languages will light our path.

No, I picked up on TTW's willingness to sacrifice her own need for emotional intimacy (assuming the author's description of intimacy matches TTW's desires also) in order not to put undue burden on her husband. However, I am a husband, not a wife. I have to take the position that a wife's willingness to forego emotional intimacy does not indefinitely and/or permanently absolve the husband of his obligation to provide for her needs. Hence my analogy with sexual intimacy in 1 Corinthians 7:5. It just leads to problems down the road.

 

[Lambano]

I always think of it this way ....when men love their wives as Christ loved the Church and died for it, the natural response of his wife's heart is to reciprocate that love, and honor, and respect back to her husband.

Sigh. I wish that were always true. But I know some (divorced) men who can honestly testify otherwise.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Sigh. I wish that were always true. But I know some (divorced) men who can honestly testify otherwise.

I hear you. It's not 100% foolproof because of unequally yoked marriages.

Also, often women do exhibit self sacrificing love ...and that often leads to physical abuse, and/or death.

 

[Lambano]

I hear you. It's not 100% foolproof because of unequally yoked marriages.

Also, often women do exhibit self sacrificing love ...and that often leads to physical abuse, and/or death.

This is true, though I would say it is due to the fact that men and women both are by nature sinful.

And women do usually get the dirty end of the stick.

 

[PS95]

Funny.

1 John 4:19
“We love him, because he first loved us.”

I always think of it this way ....when men love their wives as Christ loved the Church and died for it, the natural response of his wife's heart is to reciprocate that love, and honor, and respect back to her husband.

Women likewise are obligated to respect their husbands. Women who do not will slowly learn that it's very difficult for their husbands to love them. Funny tho- those same women will blame him and not themselves.

 

[PS95]

We disagree then.

We are to hate the sin - but love the sinner.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

Sister, how do you see these scriptures fitting together?

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Romans 5:8
“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

The ultimate example of love. A love that is sacrificial in nature. It cost the Father His Son to love us.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

No, I picked up on TTW's willingness to sacrifice her own need for emotional intimacy (assuming the author's description of intimacy matches TTW's desires also) in order not to put undue burden on her husband. However, I am a husband, not a wife. I have to take the position that a wife's willingness to forego emotional intimacy does not indefinitely and/or permanently absolve the husband of his obligation to provide for her needs. Hence my analogy with sexual intimacy in 1 Corinthians 7:5. It just leads to problems down the road.

How do you believe a husband should provide for his wife's emotional needs?

 

[TitusTwoWife]

I think of this more as a husband's obligation to his wife, rather than a wife's expectation for her husband. From a husband's standpoint, the author's detailing what is expected of us in clear, unambiguous language is a good thing. Whether it is achievable is an implementation detail.

Like 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 is, from a husband's standpoint, about HIS obligations to his wife, NOT about the husband's rights and privileges he should expect from his wife. The obligations God may or may not put on someone else (the wife, in this case) is technically none of his concern.

Jesus says to him, “If I want him to remain until I return, what is that to you? You follow Me!” (John 21:22)

Obligations. Not rights and privileges.

Are the things put forward realistic? Do you believe husbands are supposed to respond this way?

Thanks for dropping by this thread, by the way.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

Thank you to everyone who has dropped by my thread. I am fine with disagreement. My past self wouldn't have agreed with me either. I enjoy the discussion.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

We are to hate the sin - but love the sinner.

Hi @PS95 Are you saying you believe God's love is unconditional?

 

[PS95]

Hi @PS95 Are you saying you believe God's love is unconditional?

Yes, I think His "love" is unconditional. That's not the same as saying salvation is unconditional-- as we know we must have Christ in us. I think His love is unconditional, because He sends the rain on both.. He blesses people all with things needed. He makes people who are unbelievers well from their sicknesses too, and blesses many with long lives. He sent His Son because he loved the world. He taught us to hate sin not the sinner- and He does that also.
Again- that love does not mean eternal life.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

God has standards for husband but wives have no real control over whether a husband lives up to them. We can be critical, angry, and complain but this will not drive a husband closer to God. When we put the focus back on controlling ourselves, being respectful, joyful, thankful, loving and serving, that has the powerful effect of reducing the noise between our husbands and God.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

Yes, I think His "love" is unconditional. That's not the same as saying salvation is unconditional-- as we know we must have Christ in us. I think His love is unconditional, because He sends the rain on both.. He blesses people all with things needed. He makes people who are unbelievers well from their sicknesses too, and blesses many with long lives. He sent His Son because he loved the world. He taught us to hate sin not the sinner- and He does that also.
Again- that love does not mean eternal life.

God does send the rain on both the fields of the righteous but there's also this verse.

Psalm 5:5 KJV
​

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

I believe God's love is perfect and sacrificial. But love by its own nature has requirements. Israel was suppose to be God's chosen covenanted people forever. They didn't meet the requirements.

 

[TLHKAJ]

God has standards for husband but wives have no real control over whether a husband lives up to them. We can be critical, angry, and complain but this will not drive a husband closer to God. When we put the focus back on controlling ourselves, being respectful, joyful, thankful, loving and serving, that has the powerful effect of reducing the noise between our husbands and God.

Yes ..this is true, and Biblical ...as long as he isn't asking her to break God's laws or forcing her into situations that aren't Biblical (which are one and the same).

1 Peter 3:1-4
1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. 3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

 

[PS95]

God does send the rain on both the fields of the righteous but there's also this verse.

Psalm 5:5 KJV​

​

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

I believe God's love is perfect and sacrificial. But love by its own nature has requirements. Israel was suppose to be God's chosen covenanted people forever. They didn't meet the requirements.

Again- He hates the evil. But He absolutely blesses them also. I see that as loving them- don't you? while hating what they do.
We are to become more like Christ. He is the EXACT image of His Father. Paul said He was imitating Christ and we are to imitate Paul- (which means Christ) Which means the Father-- we are to bless and love others- HATE what they do but love them.
That is what our Father does also.
You see the wicked enjoying good things in their lives? You see them having children and grandchildren? They are gifts from God. Every good gift come down from the Father of lights.
We see material blessings too on the wicked. We see the rains- etc
God was good to me when I did not know Him. He should have squashed me like a bug- but He did not. He blessed me. Yes - In that sense- yes, He loves all of us.
Now that I believe- life has actually become full of trials and challenges- made to strengthen me, so that is love too. Those whom God loves- He disciplines, so the wicked may not receive discipline of God- but he does bless them. To me that's love. How can you call that hate?

 

[PS95]

God does send the rain on both the fields of the righteous but there's also this verse.

Psalm 5:5 KJV​

​

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

I believe God's love is perfect and sacrificial. But love by its own nature has requirements. Israel was suppose to be God's chosen covenanted people forever. They didn't meet the requirements.

About Israel- what a controversial topic.. ugh. A remnant will be saved. Yes- we need to have faith in Christ or we too will be cut off.
Having said that- I am not saying that LOVE = salvation. I am only saying that God loves.- We see His love in His blessings on both sinners and saints every single day.
Do beautiful flowers grow in your neighbors yard? Is your neighbor blessed with babies? Do they have dinner on the table tonight? Do they get well from their illnesses? Do their gardens yield fresh vegetables too? Who causes all of that?
Blessings of God-
Whether we acknowledge Him or not- He still blesses. Just think about it. God is love.
IF He removed His love from earth- all hell would break loose.
It's coming one day.