(The Beast) & (The Two Witnesses) Will Be On This Earth Together For 3.5 Years (Then Cometh The End)

[6 Stories]

The 1260 days of the two witnesses is the first half of the seven years. Then their 3 /12 days of laying dead in the streets of Jerusalem, then brought back to life and called up to heaven - is at the very start of the second half.

Here is a chart I made of the all of the time of the end time frames in the bible. And how they fit within the 7 years. The 3 1/2 days is also on the chart.


View attachment 87445

So you are saying that key events from the life of Jesus that will only be repeated by the 2 witnesses are not the sign of the son of man because that does not fit into your chart! That is hard to accept. I hope you will take another look at your chart.

 

[6 Stories]

It is not... about one's point of view. It is about what God's Word says as written. Your claim is that there will be THREE major earthquakes at the end, when there will only be TWO. What is confusing you is that you have failed to understand that the 6th Seal description in Revelation 6 has TWO PARTS like I said, while you are wrongly including all the 6th Seal events as the day Jesus returns.

The following is NOT about Jesus' return. It is about the Revelation 12:7 war in Heaven event that will cast Satan and his angels out of heaven down to this earth in plain sight to begin the time of "great tribulation", i.e. the idea of "... the stars of heaven fell unto earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs," is PRIOR to Christ's coming.

Rev 6:12-13
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
KJV

Thus the first earthquake happens when Satan and his angels are cast out of Heaven at the END of this world like "untimely figs". That event most of the whole world will be deceived about, which is why even many brethren in Christ miss this 6th Seal having TWO PARTS. It's about the coming of a false-Messiah that will fool the whole world, which will be Satan ("dragon" of Rev.13:4) himself playing Jesus Christ in Jerusalem for the trib.

From Revelation 6:14-17 is all about the events of Jesus' coming, which is the 2nd PART of that 6th Seal. And thus the great earthquake of Revelation 11 on the 7th Trumpet is actually the one implied in the 6th Seal. However, notice it is mentioned in that 1st PART of the 6th Seal before the "untimely figs" event. Why would that be? Because Satan coming as the false-Messiah wants to be worshiped in place of Christ, which happens first at the end, to mimic Christ's coming.

The Revelation 11 Scripture below reveals ONE earthquake between the "two witnesses" ascending and Jesus' coming, but the 2nd Woe is actually ended by that "great earthquake". All that, the ascension of the "two witnesses", the "great earthquake", and Jesus' coming all occur within that "same hour". So why would the Rev.6:12-13 show an earthquake happening when the "untimely figs" fall to earth, which is prior to the trib? It's because it is to IMPLY Christ's coming when it will instead be the coming of the false-Messiah. Thus there are TWO earthquakes to occur, the first one is IMPLIED by the 1st Part of the 6th Seal, and the second one in Rev.11 in the same hour of Jesus' coming.

Rev 11:12-15
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever."
KJV

It is not... about one's point of view. It is about what God's Word says as written. Your claim is that there will be THREE major earthquakes at the end, when there will only be TWO. What is confusing you is that you have failed to understand that the 6th Seal description in Revelation 6 has TWO PARTS like I said, while you are wrongly including all the 6th Seal events as the day Jesus returns.

I only see 2 end-times earthquakes.
The first earthquake is pictured in Rev 6:12 and in Rev 11:13.
The 2nd earthquake is pictured in Rev 6:14, 8:5, 11:19, and 16:18.

I believe that my point of view is no different than God's Word as written, but so do you. Neither of us have perfect knowledge.
I also believe that the 6th seal has 2 parts. It shows the end of the 2nd woe and the beginning of the period of God's wrath. Then it shows the 7th bowl of God's wrath which includes Jesus' return.
Rev 6:14 "...every mountain and island were moved out of their places." is repeated in Rev 16:18 "...there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great."
Rev 6:15 "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man" These same people were gathered in Rev 16:14 "...the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."
The throne of God is symbolized by voices, thunders, and lightnings. Rev 4:5 "And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices..." Therefore, the throne of God is found in Rev 6:16 "him that sitteth on the throne" and the throne of God is symbolically found in Rev 16:18 "And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings."

The throne of God comes to earth at the same time as Jesus' return. Rev 6:16 "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:" Judge for yourself, Is the throne of God coming to earth at the same time as Jesus' return my point of view or is that God's Word as written?

"The Revelation 11 Scripture below reveals ONE earthquake between the "two witnesses" ascending and Jesus' coming, but the 2nd Woe is actually ended by that "great earthquake". All that, the ascension of the "two witnesses", the "great earthquake", and Jesus' coming all occur within that "same hour". So why would the Rev.6:12-13 show an earthquake happening when the "untimely figs" fall to earth, which is prior to the trib?"

Compare the signs of Matthew 24:29 with Rev 6:12-14. These signs occur immediately after the trib, not prior to the trib.

Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Rev 12-14 "there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together;

Doesn't God's Word as written show the same signs in each passage? Look at the timing - "Immediately after the tribulation.." Immediately after the period of great tribulation, immediately after the great earthquake, when the 2 witnesses are seen in heaven, when the sign of the son of man is seen in heaven - Matt 24:30

 

[6 Stories]

(The Topic Of Discussion Is When The 2nd Woe Ends) and this takes place after the great earthquake in the "Same Hour" after the (Two Witnesses) are raised to the heaven's

The 2nd woe is finished just minutes before the 3rd woe in the Lords second coming Rev 11:15 and the final judgement Rev 11:18, simple, clear, easy to understand, and before your eyes

Revelation 11:12-18KJV
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

We are in pretty much in agreement here. My only point in the last post was to show that the 2nd woe was not part of God's wrath.

 

[Douggg]

So you are saying that key events from the life of Jesus

What do you mean ?

that will only be repeated by the 2 witnesses

explain what you mean.

are not the sign of the son of man because that does not fit into your chart!

I have no idea of what you are talking about.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Which particular chart of mine are you referring to ?

 

[Davy]

It is not... about one's point of view. It is about what God's Word says as written. Your claim is that there will be THREE major earthquakes at the end, when there will only be TWO. What is confusing you is that you have failed to understand that the 6th Seal description in Revelation 6 has TWO PARTS like I said, while you are wrongly including all the 6th Seal events as the day Jesus returns.

I only see 2 end-times earthquakes.
The first earthquake is pictured in Rev 6:12 and in Rev 11:13.
The 2nd earthquake is pictured in Rev 6:14, 8:5, 11:19, and 16:18.

The earthquake of Rev.11:19 is shown in connection with the destruction of those who destroy the earth. That only happens with Christ's coming to earth with His army. So one must step back in time a little with that part of that Rev.11:19 verse to the earthquake that happens per Rev.11:13, which is the same 'implied'... earthquake of Rev.6:14 that happens with Jesus' coming with the heaven departing as a scroll and all the islands and mountains moved out of their places. That is "day of the Lord" timing, the event of Jesus' feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives per Zech.14. The end of Hebrews 12 mentions that as a 2nd shaking of this earth that God did once before (of old when Lucifer first rebelled), and times it with the event of God's consuming fire, which is the "day of the Lord" time per 1 Thess.5 and 2 Peter 3:10.

As for Rev.8:5, the 7th Seal is given with a type 'selah' (pause) like the in the Psalms. I think it should have been included in the Rev.6 Chapter, and not at the start of Rev.8. Jesus comes on 777, the 7th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. Satan comes on 666.

In Jesus' Olivet discourse, He only gave 7 main Signs of the end leading up to His future return. The 21 events in Revelation are actually a break down of those same 7 Signs, the final Sign being that of Jesus' coming. This is why the Rev.16:18-20 Scripture parallels the events of Rev.11:13-18.

Consider the event of the stars falling and the powers in Heaven being shaken. That isn't about literal physical stars like in galaxies. It's about Satan and his host of angels, as Jesus used "stars" as a symbol for angels at the end of Revelation 1. Rev.9 even reveals a star that fell to earth that is given the key of the bottomless pit, which is about Satan and his original fall. Matthew 24:29 I believe includes the events of Satan and his angels being cast down prior to the trib, even though it does say after the trib. Consider Joel 2...

Joel 2:9-10
9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
KJV

The above happens prior to Jesus' coming. It's about the locust army in control over the earth.

Joel 2:30-31
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
KJV

The above shows the darkness and the moon turned into blood prior... to the end of the trib on the "day of the Lord".

Joel 3:14-15
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
KJV

 

[Truth7t7]

We are in pretty much in agreement here. My only point in the last post was to show that the 2nd woe was not part of God's wrath.

Yes, and it was my intent to showboat the 2nd and 3rd woes take place very close together, from the great earthquake to the 7th Trimp/Angel sounding (The End) in the second coming and final judgment

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

The throne of God comes to earth at the same time as Jesus' return.

Are you suggesting that God's throne will be literally upon this earth in the future?

Do you believe that the second coming of Jesus is (The Day Of The Lord) seen throughout scripture?

 

[Davy]

I also believe that the 6th seal has 2 parts. It shows the end of the 2nd woe and the beginning of the period of God's wrath.

Actually, the 6th Seal first part shows the time at the start of the "great tribulation". It's because of the stars falling to earth as "untimely figs" metaphor. I think that "untimely figs" idea there is new information for you that you have yet to consider. So I'll mention it again...

In real horticulture of the middle east fig, there is the 'winter fig' that grows in the winter and falls off in the spring. Then there's the summer fig harvested in summer. In the parable of a fig tree Jesus symbolically referred to the time of His coming as summer. Thus the "untimely figs" symbol is about an early... fig, and is associated with the idea of Jesus' future coming. How is that possible, one might ask. It is because there will be a false-Messiah that comes first, prior to our Lord Jesus' coming. That false-Messiah is the "man of sin" that Paul declared in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, and that Lord Jesus declared in Matthew 24:23-26 (which is actually in the singular tense about a pseudo-Christ appearing in the future new temple in Jerusalem which today's Jews are preparing to build. Dr. James Strong in his Strong's Exhaustive Concordance defined that Greek word pseudochristos for KJV "false Christs" to actually be about 'a spurious Messiah', singular).

So there are two earthquakes, one is for the FAKE "untimely figs" timing when Satan and his host of angels are kicked out of Heaven in our near future to earth, which will begin the time of "great tribulation." The other one, a "great earthquake", is on the "day of the Lord" when Jesus comes and pours out God's cup of wrath upon the earth, ending this present 2nd world earth age and destroying those armies that come up against Israel on the last day of this world.

The throne of God comes to earth at the same time as Jesus' return. Rev 6:16 "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:" Judge for yourself, Is the throne of God coming to earth at the same time as Jesus' return my point of view or is that God's Word as written?

No, what is happening there is the last day when Jesus comes, and the heavenly realm is opened upon the earth for all to see. This is why Rev.1 shows even those who pierced Him shall see Him coming in the clouds...

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
KJV

Because so many folk's minds are so tied to their flesh existence, they forget that the Heavenly dimension was once upon this earth also, as God's Paradise was once here on earth per Genesis 2 & 3. When Lord Jesus comes in the clouds, the Heavenly dimension will be opened up on earth, because that future event also is associated with how His Church still alive on earth will be "caught up" in their "spiritual body" to Him and the resurrected saints on His way to the Mount of Olives. Heaven on earth is hard for many brethren to understand, but that's how Christ's coming Millennium will manifest on earth with the "thousand years" temple layout out in Ezekiel 40 through 47.

So when the unsaved Jews see Jesus coming in the clouds, God's cup of wrath is getting then ready to be poured out upon the earth, and they see into Heaven with The Father sitting upon His throne, in Heaven. It means at that point the unsaved will have been 'changed' to their spiritual bodies also, and is how they will see The Father in Heaven. But The Father does not come to earth then at that point. Only after Christ's future "thousand years" reign and after the "second death" does The Father return to this earth to start the future new heavens and a new earth time.

 

[Davy]

Compare the signs of Matthew 24:29 with Rev 6:12-14. These signs occur immediately after the trib, not prior to the trib.

Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Rev 12-14 "there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together;

Doesn't God's Word as written show the same signs in each passage? Look at the timing - "Immediately after the tribulation.." Immediately after the period of great tribulation, immediately after the great earthquake, when the 2 witnesses are seen in heaven, when the sign of the son of man is seen in heaven - Matt 24:30

I covered that by showing you about it in the Book of Joel, which shows those signs happening immediately prior... to Christ's coming, still 'during' the "great tribulation," that is, if you believe Jesus' future coming will end the tribulation (I do). So if we believe what is written in Joel 2 & 3 about the sun moon being darkened ...

Joel 3:11-15
11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause Thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
KJV

That "day of the Lord" is the actual time when Jesus will appear coming in the clouds. That is when all on earth will be changed to their spirit bodies and see Him coming in the clouds, and His elect still alive on earth are "caught up" to Him, and the armies out of the northern quarters are destroyed (except the leftovers of Zech.14:16), and Jesus' feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives on earth, east of Jerusalem, with all His faithful elect with Him there. All that happens at an instant.

 

[Truth7t7]

Actually, the 6th Seal first part shows the time at the start of the "great tribulation". It's because of the stars falling to earth as "untimely figs" metaphor. I think that "untimely figs" idea there is new information for you that you have yet to consider. So I'll mention it again...

In real horticulture of the middle east fig, there is the 'winter fig' that grows in the winter and falls off in the spring. Then there's the summer fig harvested in summer. In the parable of a fig tree Jesus symbolically referred to the time of His coming as summer. Thus the "untimely figs" symbol is about an early... fig, and is associated with the idea of Jesus' future coming. How is that possible, one might ask. It is because there will be a false-Messiah that comes first, prior to our Lord Jesus' coming. That false-Messiah is the "man of sin" that Paul declared in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, and that Lord Jesus declared in Matthew 24:23-26 (which is actually in the singular tense about a pseudo-Christ appearing in the future new temple in Jerusalem which today's Jews are preparing to build. Dr. James Strong in his Strong's Exhaustive Concordance defined that Greek word pseudochristos for KJV "false Christs" to actually be about 'a spurious Messiah', singular).

So there are two earthquakes, one is for the FAKE "untimely figs" timing when Satan and his host of angels are kicked out of Heaven in our near future to earth, which will begin the time of "great tribulation." The other one, a "great earthquake", is on the "day of the Lord" when Jesus comes and pours out God's cup of wrath upon the earth, ending this present 2nd world earth age and destroying those armies that come up against Israel on the last day of this world.




No, what is happening there is the last day when Jesus comes, and the heavenly realm is opened upon the earth for all to see. This is why Rev.1 shows even those who pierced Him shall see Him coming in the clouds...

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
KJV

Because so many folk's minds are so tied to their flesh existence, they forget that the Heavenly dimension was once upon this earth also, as God's Paradise was once here on earth per Genesis 2 & 3. When Lord Jesus comes in the clouds, the Heavenly dimension will be opened up on earth, because that future event also is associated with how His Church still alive on earth will be "caught up" in their "spiritual body" to Him and the resurrected saints on His way to the Mount of Olives. Heaven on earth is hard for many brethren to understand, but that's how Christ's coming Millennium will manifest on earth with the "thousand years" temple layout out in Ezekiel 40 through 47.

So when the unsaved Jews see Jesus coming in the clouds, God's cup of wrath is getting then ready to be poured out upon the earth, and they see into Heaven with The Father sitting upon His throne, in Heaven. It means at that point the unsaved will have been 'changed' to their spiritual bodies also, and is how they will see The Father in Heaven. But The Father does not come to earth then at that point. Only after Christ's future "thousand years" reign and after the "second death" does The Father return to this earth to start the future new heavens and a new earth time.

1.) Satan was cast out of heaven long ago, as he tempted both Job and Jesus on this earth

2.) There won't be a future Millennium on this earth, where you claim God will be on a throne.

Jesus Returns in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[William Barton]

Your claim that 3.5 years exist after the (Two Witnesses) are raised to heaven is "False"

The (Two Witnesses) are raised from the dead "Minutes Before" the (The 7th - Last Trump In Final Judgment) at the end of this world seen in Rev 11:15-18

IMO:
The seventh trump occurs at the midpoint of the seven-year tribulation, hence 3.5 years of tribulation follow. Believers are removed at this time. We call this removal the "rapture," see 1Thessalonians 4:16-17.

This "final trump" introduces the "great tribulation" (bowl judgments, Revelation 15:7-16:20). VERY bad times, hence believes are first removed.

It's in the Book.

 

[Truth7t7]

IMO:
The seventh trump occurs at the midpoint of the seven-year tribulation, hence 3.5 years of tribulation follow. Believers are removed at this time. We call this removal the "rapture," see 1Thessalonians 4:16-17.

This "final trump" introduces the "great tribulation" (bowl judgments, Revelation 15:7-16:20). VERY bad times, hence believes are first removed.

It's in the Book.

"False"

At the (7th Trump/Angel) sounding the kingdoms of this world become the Lord's for ever and ever, your claim of 3.5 years of great tribulation has disappeared "Gone"

Revelation 11:15KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[6 Stories]

What do you mean ?


explain what you mean.


I have no idea of what you are talking about.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Which particular chart of mine are you referring to ?

Coming back to life was a key event in Jonah's life that made him a sign that Jesus would follow. Jonah died but came back to life. This is the sign of Jonah. When Jesus died and came back to life, he fulfilled the sign of Jonah.

Key events in Jesus' life will make him a sign that others will follow. Jesus died, came back to life, and ascended into heaven. The ascension is beyond the sign of Jonah, making the 3 events in total the sign of Jesus.

The 2 witnesses will be the sign of the son of man because they will fulfill the same events that were at the time, exclusive to Jesus. They will die, come back to life, and ascend into heaven. These were key events (signs) because they were exclusive (at least very rare - Lazarus also followed the sign of Jonah) to the person and then repeated by someone else.

You said the sign of the son of man will be Jesus, which does not make sense. Someone other than Jesus will have to fulfill the sign of Jesus.

You put the Jesus as the sign of the son of man in post 159, listing Matt 24:30a, Rev 14:14, Rev 6:12-17 and also as Day 2475 in post 166.

 

[William Barton]

"False"

At the (7th Trump/Angel) sounding the kingdoms of this world become the Lord's for ever and ever, your claim of 3.5 years of great tribulation has disappeared "Gone"

Revelation 11:15KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Since the Father has at this time proclaimed Jesus King of "kingdoms of this world," Jesus and his angels are now free to begin war against Satan, Satan's fallen angels, and unbelievers.

"World" is Greek κοσμος (kosmos) = "preparation applied to the human body other than soap." The idea here is "orderly," the antithesis being χαος (chaos).

At the (7th Trump/Angel) sounding the kingdoms of this world become the Lord's for ever and ever, your claim of 3.5 years of great tribulation has disappeared "Gone"

Revelation 11:15KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[William Barton]

"False"

At the (7th Trump/Angel) sounding the kingdoms of this world become the Lord's for ever and ever, your claim of 3.5 years of great tribulation has disappeared "Gone"

Revelation 11:15KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Since the Father has at this time proclaimed Jesus King of "kingdoms of this world," Jesus and his angels are now free to begin war against Satan, Satan's fallen angels, and unbelievers.

"World" is Greek κοσμος (kosmos) = "preparation applied to the human body other than soap." The English "cosmetic" stems from κοσμος. The idea here is "orderly," the antithesis being χαος (chaos).

 

[Truth7t7]

Since the Father has at this time proclaimed Jesus King of "kingdoms of this world," Jesus and his angels are now free to begin war against Satan, Satan's fallen angels, and unbelievers.

How do you explain the "Final Judgement" taking place in Rev 11:18 below at the same e event of the 7th Angel/Trump sounding?

Revelation 11:15-18KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[Douggg]

Compare the signs of Matthew 24:29 with Rev 6:12-14. These signs occur immediately after the trib, not prior to the trib.

Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:12-14 both refer to the same event. You are correct about that.

But one thing I want you notice about Matthew 24:29...

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The verse does not say after the "great tribulation" of those days.

The wording in that verse is indicating that most of the great tribulation is over, but not all of it. All of it ends when Jesus Returns, coming down to earth and does the things in Revelation 19:21-Revelation 20 :3.

Please look at my chart. Do you see Matthew 24:29, Tribulation of those days ? The tribulation of those days is the 1290 days long of Daniel 12:11. We count forward 1290 days from day 1185 when the AoD is setup to get to day 2475. Day 2475 is when the sign of the Son of man appears in heaven.

The great tribulation will last the 1335 days of Daniel 12:12.

The tribulation of those days is the first 1290 days of the 1335 days of the great tribulation. It is that simple.

 

[Douggg]

Coming back to life was a key event in Jonah's life that made him a sign that Jesus would follow. Jonah died but came back to life. This is the sign of Jonah. When Jesus died and came back to life, he fulfilled the sign of Jonah.

No, Jonah has nothing to do with the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven.

The 2 witnesses will be the sign of the son of man because they will fulfill the same events that were at the time, exclusive to Jesus. They will die, come back to life, and ascend into heaven.

No, the sign of the Son of man appearing heaven is about world seeing Jesus in the third heaven before the throne of God, sickle in hand. In Revelation 6:15-16 is the reaction of them who will have been persecuting the great tribulation saints, when they see Jesus, before the throne of God, sickle in hand.

You said the sign of the son of man will be Jesus, which does not make sense. Someone other than Jesus will have to fulfill the sign of Jesus.

What ? Who do you think the Lamb is in Revelation 6:16-17 ?

You put the Jesus as the sign of the son of man in post 159, listing Matt 24:30a, Rev 14:14, Rev 6:12-17 and also as Day 2475 in post 166.

Yes, Mathew 24:30a is the text that says the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven.

Revelation 14:14 is the text that says Jesus will be holding a sickle

Revelation 6:12-17 is the sixth seal event during which the world will see Jesus appear above it, in the third heaven, sickle in hand.

 

[William Barton]

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

"Wrath has come" (Revelation 11:18) = Bowl judgments (Revelation 16:1-17:21).

 

[6 Stories]

The earthquake of Rev.11:19 is shown in connection with the destruction of those who destroy the earth. That only happens with Christ's coming to earth with His army. So one must step back in time a little with that part of that Rev.11:19 verse to the earthquake that happens per Rev.11:13, which is the same 'implied'... earthquake of Rev.6:14 that happens with Jesus' coming with the heaven departing as a scroll and all the islands and mountains moved out of their places. That is "day of the Lord" timing, the event of Jesus' feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives per Zech.14. The end of Hebrews 12 mentions that as a 2nd shaking of this earth that God did once before (of old when Lucifer first rebelled), and times it with the event of God's consuming fire, which is the "day of the Lord" time per 1 Thess.5 and 2 Peter 3:10.

As for Rev.8:5, the 7th Seal is given with a type 'selah' (pause) like the in the Psalms. I think it should have been included in the Rev.6 Chapter, and not at the start of Rev.8. Jesus comes on 777, the 7th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. Satan comes on 666.

In Jesus' Olivet discourse, He only gave 7 main Signs of the end leading up to His future return. The 21 events in Revelation are actually a break down of those same 7 Signs, the final Sign being that of Jesus' coming. This is why the Rev.16:18-20 Scripture parallels the events of Rev.11:13-18.

Consider the event of the stars falling and the powers in Heaven being shaken. That isn't about literal physical stars like in galaxies. It's about Satan and his host of angels, as Jesus used "stars" as a symbol for angels at the end of Revelation 1. Rev.9 even reveals a star that fell to earth that is given the key of the bottomless pit, which is about Satan and his original fall. Matthew 24:29 I believe includes the events of Satan and his angels being cast down prior to the trib, even though it does say after the trib. Consider Joel 2...

Joel 2:9-10
9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
KJV

The above happens prior to Jesus' coming. It's about the locust army in control over the earth.

Joel 2:30-31
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
KJV

The above shows the darkness and the moon turned into blood prior... to the end of the trib on the "day of the Lord".

Joel 3:14-15
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
KJV

The great tribulation is a war of Satan and his armies v the 2 witnesses and believers. God will intervene to stop the great tribulation before everyone dies because of it. AC will still be alive passed this time, but God will have begun his reign. God intervenes or stops the great tribulation with his wrath. Although Satan's armies will gather to fight against God, they will all become bird food. There is no real fighting against God.

"Matthew 24:29 I believe includes the events of Satan and his angels being cast down prior to the trib, even though it does say after the trib.
Joel 2:30-31
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come."

We shouldn't pick which is true because they are both true. After the period of great tribulation, the end of Daniel's 7th week, comes the period of God's wrath. Probably the great and terrible day will be the last day of God's wrath.

Verses of great tribulation:
Rev 6:12 "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake;
Verses of God's wrath:
The rest of Rev chapter 6.
Proof: The signs after the great earthquake are the signs that immediately follow the great tribulation in Matt 24.

Verses of great tribulation:
Rev 7:9 - 8:4 excluding 8:2 which belongs with the next story beginning with Rev 8:6.
Verses of God's wrath:
Rev 8:5
Proof: The multitude in heaven were all killed during the great tribulation. The noises, thunders, lightnings, and earthquake always end God's wrath.

Verses of great tribulation:
When the army of the 6th trumpet removes the daily sacrifice - Rev 11:14
Verses of God's wrath:
Rev 11:15-19

This is the pattern of chapters 6-19 of the Revelation. The great tribulation ends. God's wrath is then poured out.

The "Day of the Lord" refers to many different times, past and present. It was the Day of the Lord when Babylon defeated Egypt in the days of King Nebuchadnezzar. Jer 46:10,13 "10 For this is the day of the Lord God of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord God of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates. 13 The word that the Lord spake to Jeremiah the prophet, how Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon should come and smite the land of Egypt."

In regard to your Hebrews reference: The first shaking of the earth was at Mt Sinai. It will be like that when Jesus returns. Again, notice the lightning, thunder, voices, and earthquake. Ex 19:16,18 "16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. 18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly."